grandpa's old 80w and 200w CB amp's,what do you think?

[rickcdewitt]

hey all,whats your thoughts on running a "i'll talk when i want and you'll talk when you can" CB system?i only use a cb on the trail or very limited two lane use right now but i heard that i might be able to talk to my cousins in arkansas with the right antenna.i know about the legality but a lot of old boys around this logging country run amps.should i use the 80w or the 200w and melt my antenna? i have an swr meter and a bunch of literature on tuning,and had pretty good luck with the other systems i've set up.anyway what do you think(including all you CB cops out there)? thanks.

[PARKINGLOT]

If you want distance, go with ham gear. That's that I did. CB's are useful, but only to a point...

[rickcdewitt]

i've never used ham,is that like the wide band or whatever the tow truck drivers and cops use?ham has much better range doesn't it?i already have a cb set up and it works fine for what i do(besides then all my wheelin buddies would need ham).anyone use a cb amp before? my grandpa could talk a few states away when the weather was right,and the guy running the local taco truck talks to his truck driver brother in michocan mexico from here with a megawatt setup.i know cb is like am radio but it can definitely can be improved.

[PARKINGLOT]

see, one of the things is, yes, you may be able to get alot of distance with a "juiced up" CB, but not alot of people have them, so who are you going to talk to? Not to mention all the people you can't hear, with regular CB's that are yelling at you for walking over them and your too far away to hear them.... There's alot of freight haulers with "big CB's" i'd like to punch, they start talking on a channel like they own it and walk all over everyone...

[rickcdewitt]

yeah i hear yuh guy.i don't want to be rude out there those amps they use are like a thousand watts.its a little off topic from what i'm after,i was rambling.i have a smallish firestik and just want to pump it up a little if it will handle it.i don't hog channels or play games with people like broadcasting my stereo and stuff like that.the etiquette rules are there for a reason just looking to bend them.

[samsonitesamsonite]

FYI CB amps are now illegal in many states. Many of the frequency's interfere with cable TV.

[4x4junkie]

How far are you trying to talk (Arkansas to ??)
Chances are NO amount of power will be able to reach them right now, atmospheric (solar) conditions are not sufficient for propagation of 27MHz frequencies.

At the peak of the sunspot cycle however (probably in another 3-5 years), it's possible to talk across the country using just 12 watts on single sideband (no amp needed).


FYI CB amps are now illegal in many states. Many of the frequency's interfere with cable TV.

CB amps have never been legal in ANY state (Federal law prohibits them).
Cable TV however is a "closed" system. If ANYTHING should interfere with it, it's usually because of a breach in the shielded cable somewhere (loose or broken connector, etc), and would be a problem with the CATV system.

CB amplifiers are much more likely to interfere with over-the-air TV reception. They can also cause interference to audio equipment (TV speakers, stereos, etc), as well as on some phones (usually corded phones and answering equipment, but less often on high-end cordless phones).
I've heard a story or two of them bleeding over the 2-way radios in cop cars as well, resulting in being harassed by them. In the past they never had jurisdiction to do anything about it (it's a federal issue), although I'm not sure if that has changed (I recall they were trying to change the law on it some years ago, not sure if they ever got it passed).

.

[rickcdewitt]

lets not go off the deep end guys we're talking about pretty small amps and trail use.cool info on that sun cycle stuff though.where the hell would you hear something like that?

[4x4junkie]

Huh?? :icon_confused:

You asked about CB amplifiers. How is any of this "off the deep end"?

This applies to ANY amplifier regardless of how big or small it is (or even an imported radio that puts out illegal power itself).

Also, you should NEVER use any sort of amplifier if you're with a group on a trail, chances are you'll just overpower everyone's radio around you resulting in distorted reception (and you could wind up damaging their receiver, too).

[rickcdewitt]

Huh?? :icon_confused:

You asked about CB amplifiers. How is any of this "off the deep end"?

This applies to ANY amplifier regardless of how big or small it is (or even an imported radio that puts out illegal power itself).

Also, you should NEVER use any sort of amplifier if you're with a group on a trail, chances are you'll just overpower everyone's radio around you resulting in distorted reception (and you could wind up damaging their receiver, too).sorry i was referring to the interstate cb chatting,trying to direct the thread back away from the thousand watt stuff.just diden't want my first post misinterpreted.solar flares and talking to china sounds cool but i don't think that would include my truck. i mentioned it earlier while rambling but i'm not talking about that,just the possibility of augmenting a smaller antenna instead of having a 10 ft antenna.if i can't tune it with the amp i won't use it. also as far as i know 4 watts is the limit but you can buy cb's with built in amps up to 7 or so.no offense ment that was cool info on the sun.where did you hear that?

any info is welcome i'm trying to learn as much as i can about these old amps.also don't the truckers keep from blowing out each others cb's somehow?you know they use them in the same parkinglots.

[samsonitesamsonite]

CB amps have never been legal in ANY state (Federal law prohibits them).
Cable TV however is a "closed" system. If ANYTHING should interfere with it, it's usually because of a breach in the shielded cable somewhere (loose or broken connector, etc), and would be a problem with the CATV system.

CB amplifiers are much more likely to interfere with over-the-air TV reception. They can also cause interference to audio equipment (TV speakers, stereos, etc), as well as on some phones (usually corded phones and answering equipment, but less often on high-end cordless phones).
I've heard a story or two of them bleeding over the 2-way radios in cop cars as well, resulting in being harassed by them. In the past they never had jurisdiction to do anything about it (it's a federal issue), although I'm not sure if that has changed (I recall they were trying to change the law on it some years ago, not sure if they ever got it passed).

.
I said most because I wasn't sure of all states laws.

I work in cable. Insight communications. If you have the SMALLEST ingress problem, CB amps can cause problems in the whole plant. The stories you have heard about police radios is true, we get interference form them in our FD radios. Not only that, if at the right frequency it can interfere with aeronautical communications.

[4x4junkie]

Look up some CB radio forums on the net (HAM (amateur) radio forums, too), there should be a lot of info available about sunspots and the 11-year solar cycle (and how it affects the different frequency bands).
There are also plenty of books available on the subject as well.

Most of my knowledge on this dates back to the late 1980s-mid 1990s when I was heavier into the radio.
Not sure if I ever talked to China, but Australia and New Zealand were almost daily (afternoon) contacts for me (I've talked to Japan a couple times too). It was common to hear Europe in the early mornings as well.

[PARKINGLOT]

wow junkie, I never took you for a radio guy too. (I wonder what you DON'T know about...)

I've never worried about blowing a CB out before, I run my stock Cobra 19. I mean, I usually run with other guys, like, 100 or so feet apart. Don't need a big CB for that. If we get some moron walking us, we just switch to another channel..

[rickcdewitt]

where i live is very mountainous and most of the wheelin is in canyons and tight trails.i thought the amp would be able to reach around the rock a little better.out there you're 10-20 miles from the cops or someones house.its like parkinglot said,ideally we should all switch to ham but for now i just want more performance,and hopefully the terrain i use it in will help keep interference to a minimum.it would be aweful to shoot down a space shuttle with the cb,i'de have to through on a turban and leave the country after that.:icon_twisted:

good suggestion about the cb forums,probably not as lively as here though:Di've been looking up the firestik site and thumbing through some old books.

[4x4junkie]

Lol, yeah, I've had a few nice radios and stuff for awhile now, but about all I ever use it for nowadays is trail communications. The ratio of decent people to drunken losers/social misfits doesn't allow as much enjoyment out of it as a hobby as it used to (especially lacking are any wheeler types, now that virtually all the local hilltop stomping grounds around here have either been bulldozed for housing projects, or in some cases, locked up by hikers for their own exclusive access (who complained about people dumping up there, but yet they STILL trash the place up with their own fawkin' plastic water bottles, energy bar wrappers and other garbage :flipoff: ).


rickcdewitt, unless you wheel all alone (not a very wise thing to do though), I see no reason you would ever need an amp for any type of trail use... a stock radio by itself will go a mile or more through even the twistiest canyon if you have a decent antenna. You seem determined to use it though, so just make sure you still have a decent SWR when it's running, and that you aren't bleeding all over the channels. It would still be decent common courtesy to turn it off if others with radios are around you though (or if others are trying to communicate on another channel nearby).

[rickcdewitt]

yeah,more people with 4x4's and less trails makes for a bad scene in most places.thats why i like to go hunting and wheelin on private land most of the time when the chance comes.none of that "my stereo is louder and tires bigger" bull,or drunk idiots.i've loaded my truck up a few times with losers trash and dumped it back in the responsible parties driveways.once the county found out , the assholes had to provide dump slips and have inspections.i pick up a lot less trash now.
i'm not dead set on running an amp if its going to interfere with the other guys on the trail,but i might buy a new cb with 7 watts or so because my antenna is aready tall enough to get really banged around.i will have to see if the cb will work with the amp inline but turned off so that i can use it when i want(like when you are a couple miles away).
its like you said junkie i need to look up some sites and see how much affect the different amp ratings have.

[Sparkz]

Install the amp and use it when you need it (see if he has a modulator? V-Plus?) and get rid of the fire stick!! I run wilson and have run 1200 watts and never had issues

point of fact my base will dead key .25 watt and swing 320 or so i use it when i need it ( more if i light the amp/s ( I have a tube amp and a texas Star 32Kw with 16 fans on it and have lit up and made buddys all over this hemispher as well as over seas) my work truck dead key .25 wat and swing 1200 all day long and i could talk to wisconsin from centril Illinois as well as Jackson KY to Nebraska to my hunt buddys ) ( and I can piss off that idiot your talking about for about 300+ miles ( or 5-6 hrs if i needed to )

so with the right power and modulation
you can and will talk 500+ no prob ( just dont be a dick or your gona find a guy like me that can and will " put fire in da wire" and shut ya down ( Play nice) NO RODGER BEEPS or VOICE SH(T!!

just put ther amp in and use good coax and a good ant ( no Fiberglass)
as ya brake them everythim ya hit a tree limb I use a bottom loaded stainless ( Wilson 1000)


also if you realy want to talk skip A galaxy radio or some ham that can get to 11 meters will do a hell of a job bearfoot,

Run the amp!
just turn it off when your buddys are close


Sparkz
"In the Bluegrass and were on the side"

[silveranger93]

For a short amount of time I ran a 500 watt amp. Basically it was useless. Yeah, I could walk all over people, but that has no use. I was too distorted for anyone even remotely close by to understand me. I'd just stick with a peaked and tuned CB and you'll never have problems.

[MAKG]

HAM is much more appropriate for distance.

Solar flares MATTER. They push the earth's magnetic field into the atmosphere. It's like a big mirror at 50-100 miles altitude at CERTAIN frequencies. When the field lines get low enough into the atmosphere, they constrain high-altitude charged particles very much like north-south oriented wires. It's not too unusual for HAMs to get signals to other continents, especially north-south. And if you listen very carefully to the background noises at an appropriate frequency, you can hear characteristic "chirping" sounds. These are lightning strikes on the other side of the world.

This effect exists, but isn't very strong at the CB frequencies around 27 MHz. That's why they suck. It's much stronger in the shortwave.

[rickcdewitt]

Install the amp and use it when you need it (see if he has a modulator? V-Plus?) and get rid of the fire stick!! I run wilson

just put ther amp in and use good coax and a good ant ( no Fiberglass)
as ya brake them everythim ya hit a tree limb I use a bottom loaded stainless ( Wilson 1000)



Run the amp!
just turn it off when your buddys are close


Sparkz
"In the Bluegrass and were on the side"hey! i was kind of waitin' for a trucker to give their opinion on this.i had a magnetic base wilson 1000 for a year until the cable got abraded.it kept falling over and i diden't secure it better(shame really,it was my grandpa's).i've heard from a few people that wilson is a good brand.my firestik was free and with a spring base it hasen't killed itself yet.i got a couple questions for you if you don't mind-
1.)is the modulator so you can run the antenna with an amp and be able to turn the amp off and still talk?
2.)would you run the 80w or 200w if you just wanted a little boost without the FCC,or other people giving you hell?also 32kw-thats 32,000w right?might be able to follow your truck at night by the antenna glow.:D

i plan on seeing what the interference is on other cb's up close and i'll go from there.selectable power might be best.i'm not really looking to talk to other states just make it easier to talk 2-5 miles away,maybe the 80w?

[BDAB]

Well you got it. I run a 2500 watt Kicker through a 102 inch steel whip with 36 feet of mini 8 and I can skip to Alaska and catch the skip coming back. If you are going to run it make sure you can power down and never push more that 4 watts at a dead key or you will lose your radio when the state police catch you. you need to have the radio peaked and tuned by a CB shop (A good one) and use an SWR meter (not the one built into the radio) I never use the Kicker going down the road, only when parked and never use it on 19, 17, or 9. Those are the channels monitored by the state police. even with it powered down I can walk over people for 20 miles because of the impedance matching you get with the kicker wired in. never use it on the same channel as somebody else with 500 yards and you want a near perfect SWR. If you are looking to talk 2-5 miles then you need near perfect SWR, a tunible antenna, and a power filter to filter out back ground noise. In my Suburban I run a completely stock Cobra 29, with dual K-40 fiberglass whips mounted on top (to the luggage rack) with 36 feet of coax (18 to each stick) with a power filter. I have an SWR of 1.2:1 (near perfect) and can talk crystal clear and receive crystal clear for atleast 10 miles with out breaking any laws. You wont get that with a cheap radio even with a kicker, get the SWR down first go from there.

[rickcdewitt]

alright so i'll look into the back ground filter and maybe modulator here soon.

[4x4junkie]

I run a 2500 watt Kicker through a 102 inch steel whip with 36 feet of mini 8

That's an awfully small cable to be pushing that kind of power through :eek:

[AllanD]

You aren't even safe running 2500watts into the heavy duty RG8 Equivelent,
Belden 9913.

For 2500watts if it isn't made by Andrews it won't take it
and even then mere 1/2" hardline need not apply...

"Mini-8" or RG-8x is only good for ~200watts

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[drifterawh]

A stock raido is fine. An amp. is bad ass. But if your talking a mi. or 2. turn the damm thing off.You,ll blead all through all ch. Youll just piss people off.

[Hawk1339]

More QRM, making the bands useless to everybody else. "I got mine, so F the rest of you".

Such good citizens.

[creepinjeepster]

If you're gonna stick with your firstik, I'd stick with the 80w amp, although it might still be too much for that antenna. Steel whip antenna's are the best to use with amps. Make sure you have everything tuned as one system before using or you could fry parts of if not your whole system. You can talk year round state to state with the right set-up. As for interfering with cable signal, yes they are and have always been illegal in all states for CB radios, but rules are made to be broken otherwise you wouldn't need rules. The new digital signal for cable now, I don't believe receives interference from cb amps anymore. Could be wrong, but never heard any of my neighbors complain as of late.


My set-up........
Galaxy 66 converted to 10 meter from 11 meter with a 1/4 watt dead key. 50w modulator, into a 450 high drive, into a sweet 16 before exiting my Wilson 5000 antenna.

Yes, I'm a truck driver too. But truck drivers don't know everything about cb's. Its the ones that have it as a hobby like I do.

[Jons_playtoy]

Ok first things first, if your going to run a linear amp you'll want to take the radio to a CB shop. What you need to do is have them add a 2 or 3 way power switch so you can run it about .5 watt with the "kicker". I ran OTR for 4 yrs and had a Galaxy 44 (setup for 10 meter) and a bumble Bee 250. Galaxy does make a CB now, but I'm not familiar with them. On the power switch I had a 3way on my 44 and had it low .5, med around 2.5 and high setting as regular. A good antenna can make a crap radio seem "OK", but a crap antenna will make a great radio seem like crap LOL.

[dirtsquirt]

lets not go off the deep end guys we're talking about pretty small amps and trail use.cool info on that sun cycle stuff though.where the hell would you hear something like that?

well he does speak the truth on the sun and solar cycles, I used to be into CB in a big way many years ago, talked all over the world with a yagi beam and a 5/8 ground plane. with a cobra 135 unlocked clairifier and some extra channels.

amps or boot's as we called them work fine, and a firestick will handle a small one under 500 watts. there used to be, and more then likely are still around. Amps with reciever gain controls, so it help both ways.

There are some nice little 10 meter rigs around with 100 amp built right into them (ranger) is one brand. open the case move 2 jumpers and you can send and recieve from 26,100 thru 29.995. Still have a couple of them kicking around some were in a box.

[dla]

hey all,whats your thoughts on running a "i'll talk when i want and you'll talk when you can" CB system?i only use a cb on the trail or very limited two lane use right now but i heard that i might be able to talk to my cousins in arkansas with the right antenna.i know about the legality but a lot of old boys around this logging country run amps.should i use the 80w or the 200w and melt my antenna? i have an swr meter and a bunch of literature on tuning,and had pretty good luck with the other systems i've set up.anyway what do you think(including all you CB cops out there)? thanks.

Do you have a single digit IQ? (a) They're illegal even to own, let alone use. (b) there are other legal means of communication (ham) that is far, far superior to CB. If Grandpa left you a pound of crack would you be asking for advice on how to smoke it?

[AllanD]

FYI CB amps are now illegal in many states. Many of the frequency's interfere with cable TV.

CB amplifiers violate the law in ALL states because they are agains FEDERAL LAW and always have been.

THE problem with CB is NOISE and most of that is because amplitude modulation (AM) is used.

An amplifier would only make it worse.

Call it "Alligator effect", Big mouth, no ears.

HAM radios OTOH generally use either Single Sideband (SSB)
or Frequency Modulation.

FM in particular has something called a "Capture effect" where
unless two interfering signals are nearly perfectly equal the
stronger signal will "capture" the receiver.
If you hear a signal with no noise and no interference it is
called "Full quieting" and is like a good cellphone signal
once you can talk that way....

as for range? under most circumstances a 2meter (145-148MHz)
radio can talk 50miles or more "Simplex" but most 2meter communications
are "Semi-duplex" and via a repeater (an automated relay)

And the range is significantly increased, because the repeaters
are usually placed on hilltops, exsisting broadcast towers,
water towers, tall buildings, etc...

IT's called "semi-duplex" because while both parties transmit on one frequency (the repeater input frequency) and listen on another
(the repeated output frequency) only one person can talk at a time.

Now for bands similar to CB? there the 10meter band which is at
a slightly higher frequency, CB is 26-27MHz, the 10meter Amateur
band is at 28.3-29.95Mhz. The thing is if the ionisphere is cooperative
(the band is open) you can as the saying goes "talk around the world on 5watts and a rusty coathanger"

I'm not sure about that, but I've talked to New Zealand, Australia, Japan, Russia, Tunisia and South Africa all on the same day when the band wasn't actually supposed to be "open", but I was using a Good base antenna and 150watts.

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[4x4junkie]

No one has ever said it's required to use AM on CB, you can use SSB too... Many radios even have FM as well (technically FM isn't legal to use on CB here in the States, although is anyone enforcing it?). This "CB is limited because it's AM" argument has no validity here.
And FWIW, I actually have used 5 watts and a rusty coathanger to talk from my location on the west coast here to many of those same countries using the CB band (Ok, it was a piece of weathered copper wire strung from a tree, but you get the point) :)


CB amplifiers violate the law in ALL states because they are agains FEDERAL LAW and always have been.

I did mention that already in the post immediately following Samsonite's http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Hawk1339]

And FWIW, I actually have used 5 watts and a rusty coathanger to talk from my location on the west coast here to many of those same countries using the CB band (Ok, it was a piece of weathered copper wire strung from a tree, but you get the point) :)


Which, oddly enough, is not legal either. FCC rules specify that CB communications, even if using legal power, cannot extend beyond 155 miles. Absurd but true.

To wit:

"Rule 13 Illegal Communications
{A} You must NOT use a CB station-
...
[9] to communicate with, or ATTEMPT to communicate with, any CB station more than 155.3 miles (250 kilometers) away;
...
[11] to communicate with stations in other countries, except stations in Canada (on General Radio Service). "

[4x4junkie]

Yeah, guilty as charged lol.

Seems many of the rules governing CB radio have long become obsolete, I don't think there's been any real revisions since they eliminated the license requirement some 25 years or so ago. Prosecuting people for talking too far away doesn't seem like something that would be real high up on their priorities agenda (what purpose would it serve?). I think as long as you aren't actually causing interference to anyone (using big power amps, talking out-of-band, etc.), you can pretty much use the radio however you want. Of course I take no responsibility if you do get caught talking to Europe though. :)

[Hawk1339]

I think the original intent of the rule was to preserve CB as a short range, local form of communication for the technically uninitiated masses. If one wants to talk DX, then that's what a ham license is for.

Culling out silly rules like this one is probably pretty low on the list of FCC priorities.

[4x4junkie]

There was originally a code prohibiting CB use as a hobby as well (and possibly business use too, I think). When those codes were lifted at the same time the license requirement was lifted, it should've been known people are going to take the opportunity to talk as far away as they can.
I hope you're not saying people still shouldn't be trying to talk DX on CB... (being that today's short range local form of communications for the technically illiterate is now available on the FRS band, and of course we also have cell phones now too) Because that's hard not to do on a band that propagates worldwide even with minuscule power levels.

[xtreameracer]

hey all,whats your thoughts on running a "i'll talk when i want and you'll talk when you can" CB system?i only use a cb on the trail or very limited two lane use right now but i heard that i might be able to talk to my cousins in arkansas with the right antenna.i know about the legality but a lot of old boys around this logging country run amps.should i use the 80w or the 200w and melt my antenna? i have an swr meter and a bunch of literature on tuning,and had pretty good luck with the other systems i've set up.anyway what do you think(including all you CB cops out there)? thanks.

just get your radio peeked and tuned