302 conversion help needed

[geoph1986]

First off, what an excellent site, I'm glad I found it.

OK, I've read numerous posts, & have also checked the in the tech section.

Here's my situation/question.

I have a 1983 Ranger 4X4, w/ a 2.8l, & 4 speed manual trans. I want to put a carbed 302 w/ an auto trans (3 or 4 speed) into it.

What do I need exactly (motor mounts, adapters, etc.)?
What be be the best donor vehicles for my wants?

I've read that you can use full size F-150 motor, trans, and transfer case.
Do I have to relocate my transfer case? Custom trans mount? Relocated crossmember?

I don't want anything to do with computers or massive wiring conversions.
I have done motor swaps before, but never a conversion.

A complete list of what's needed and a step by step instruction tutorial would be ideal if anyone could help me with this.

I live in Canada and this vehicle is excempt from any smog laws.

Any & all help is greatly appreciated. Thanx

[Ranger5.0]

what part of canada are you from?

[mudranger]

Explorer/mountaineer 4x4 v8. to go with a carbed setup, you will have to swap the intake, add a carb, go to another ignition box (like an msd) and swap the distributor.
This is basically the swap I did on my 84 2wd, but I used a mustang gt HO motor and an aod trans.
Since you are going w/ a 4x4 setup, the exploder/mountaineer is your easiest route. the yards are full of em'. you're gonna need a set of mustang convertible mounts, and some shorty headers. an oil filter relocation kit is a must. the cooling system from the donor exploder will work, but is a tight fit. Also, if you ever thought of doing a body lift, nows the time, the extra 3" will help alot.
You're right, this is a great site. 4 years ago when first found my way here, all I wanted was a fix to a fuel problem on my old 2.0 4-banger....Last summer, I finished the V8 swap into that same truck, and I couldn't have done it without these guys.

[geoph1986]

Firstly, Thanks for the replies. I am going to give it a bit of a body lift (3"-4"). If I use an explorer/mountaineer, do I need to relocate my transfer case? or should I take the motor, trans, & transfer case from the donor? I would like to keep a manual shift transfer case. If I don't need to relocate my transfer case, do I need an adapter to mate the trans to the transfer case? Do I need to mod the lengths of my driveshafts? What physical modifications do I have to perform to my truck to get this to fit?

What exactly are mustang "convertible" mounts?

Is there a place that I could find step by step instructions w/ pics? I'm fairly mechanically handy, but have never done an engine conversion before (it's a little intimidating, but very possible). I just want to make sure that I know exactly what I'm getting into before I start.

BTW, I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The truck came from Minnesota, and was totally exempt from the registry of imported vehicles, because of it's age.

[projectnitemare]

I will have a few differing opinions on this but you don't need to find a V8 mountaineer or explorer. All you would be using from it would be the engine and maybe the exhaust manifolds. Being you want a carbed 302 any 302/ 5.0L will work just fine, add the intake and carb of your choice. You want a 3 or 4 speed auto, the only choices that aren't computer controlled are the C4 and C6 are the 3 speeds and the AOD is the 4 speed. They were all offered in fullsizes in fullsizes at verious points in time. The newest AOD you can use would be from 94, after that it is electronically controlled. Use a post 70 C4 due to revisions, bigger input shaft and pump revisions. Just about any C6 is good; they use up more power than the other two. If you decide to rebuild it I would suggest a lower geared aftermarket planetary and convert the thrust washers to bearings; that will make it much more efficient. As far as engine mounts you can make what you need for under $20 at most. There are templates in the tech artices for how to make V8 mounts from 1/4 in steel plate. They are cheap and work well. You can use the stock trans crossmember; you will have to move it though. The t-case might take a little searching. The older NP205 will fit with not mods other than a support bracket. The NP208 will fit with a little trimming of protruding tabs on the t-case and sometimes a little shaving on the bottom of the frame rail. The BW 1356 can be made to fit but you will be cutting some frame. A body lift makes things easier but it isn't required. Pretty much all the F-150 stuff will fit with very little cutting, manual or auto, the only thing that doesn't fit well is the Borg Warner t-case and the 5 speed ZF trans. You will have to make your own driveshafts as well. As far as wiring you can loose all the Ranger engine stuff. You can use a factory duraspark system, they work ok but an MSD works better in my opinion. You can do it as cheap or expensive as you need. I've seen swaps done for $1500 that ran decent and I've done one that cost me over $8k They can eat cash fast.

Matt

[geoph1986]

OK, since this build has to be done on the cheap, I've decided that the best route for me to go would be to get a donor car that has a C4 or an AOD trans, like an 80's grand marquis (or something similar). I'll swap the manifold for a carbed setup, and probably go with the MSD ignition.

MOTOR MOUNTS:
I've read the tech article on the 1/4" plate motor mount adapters. Will these connect properly to my 2.8l mounts, like they do on 3.0l & 4.0l mounts?

TRANSMISSION.
I want to keep my floor shifter.
Where is the best place to get trans to t/c adapter? I know about James Duff, Advance Adapters, etc...But which adapter will give me least amount of hassle, both with durability & install mods like shifter linkage? My understanding is that the adapter will keep my t/c in the stock location.

T/C
I believe I have a BG1350 t/c. Typically, will these handle the power of a 302? What is recommended? The motor will remain mainly stock with the exception of an intake, carb, and ignition system.

AXLES
I have the stock Dana 28 setup, and would like to upgrade both axles to something a bit bigger/better. What donors would be a direct bolt in swap?

FUEL PUMP
I would also like to retain a mechanical fuel pump. I've read that the 1970-1973 Econoline vans used a Carter pump that is made upside down to clear the steering box.

This truck is going to continue being my daily driver, but I still want it to be able to handle a little bit of a beating now & then:black_eye:.

[Ranger5.0]

why all this talk about Carbs? bump up the cool factor and go with EFI, plus, if you do any exciting wheeling, then you will like the EFI, not to mention better fuel milage. As far as parts holding up, thats related to which engine you end up with, some have like 170 hp, other have 220ish. I juss wedged in a AOD and the T case both from the same truck. I dont think 2.8 engine mounts would survive long but maybe. I realize you want to run on the cheep, like most of us, but a little more now it better then juss scratching by, and then having to replace and upgrade parts later on.

[PARKINGLOT]

hey Ranger5.0, did you ever make a build thread for your rig? how does the AOD and 1356 fit in there, and what kind mileage you get cruising around in that thing?

[projectnitemare]

I don't remember if the 2.8 lower mounts are the same as the 2.9L but I believe they are. If not you will need the lower mounts from a 2.9L or a 4.0L. That setup will work fine, I've fed over 500hp though them and they haven't ripped off yet. Don't convert a 2wd trans to 4x4, you will have to pretty much rebuild it. Start with a 4x4 trans, it will save you in the long run. The AA kit to keep the stock BW1350 isn't cheap, around $500. So if you use a fullsize transmission you can use a full size t-case, if you stay older than 88 you will most likely find a NP208 or a 205 in the bigger trucks. For axles a Ranger Dana 35 is pretty much a bolt in for the Dana 28, the front driveshaft needs to be shortened about an inch. The 8.8 is a bolt in deal to replace the 7.5 rear. The econoline pump will work. Go to the parts store and ask to see it beside a car or truck pump, it will look almost upside down of the car or truck one.

Matt

[Ranger5.0]

ParkingLot, no, no build thread. Its been 5 years since it was done. I was getting ausome milage on the highway untill the engine started to die. Im gonna try and take a lot of pics of everything this coming week then i replace the engine. The trany fit without much work, just had to hammer the seam for the florpan/firewall. The T case was a bit harder, I had to do some triming of the frame to get it in, it pritty much takes up all the space between the rails, and there is about 6in between the back of the case and the fuel tank, so im not to sure how it would work in a regular cab truck.

[COPPERHEAD85]

there is an article in tech about using the output shaft from a c-5 to a c-4 and keeping your t-case.thats what i did.droped right in.
use the stang convertable mounts with a plate to move the mount forward and you can bolt the tranny mount right where it was.
to me the 3" body lift was well worth the extra room.
http://http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/85rangerv-8/?action=view&current=2a0342cf.flv (http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/85rangerv-8/?action=view&current=2a0342cf.flv")

[projectnitemare]

That is an option I didn't mention. The RBV C5 is becoming very hard to find. If you can find the tailshaft and housing you set. Just get the transmission rebuilt while the tailshaft is being swapped and you won't have any problems. I tried finding those parts when I did my swap and couldn't find them. I'm glad I didn't because I would have probably exploded a Ranger t-case. That's something to think about if you are planning to someday add some power.

Matt

[COPPERHEAD85]

that may be a problem for me.......i built this truck for mud........a lot of wheel spin.

the local circle track is going to open a sand drag track next year..........might change my mind.lol

[geoph1986]

I want a carbed setup because I don't want to have to deal with computer crap. I've had many carbed vehicles and I find they are the easiest to work on (for me at least). If I were to go EFI I would probably just use a 4.0l because there is alot less modifying (as I understand it), but then there's the wiring nightmare to deal with.
I don't really want to start cutting into my frame to mount a transfercase. I'm fine with moving crossmembers, but if I don't have to, it would be all the better.
The only reason that I am wanting to do a conversion is because my motor is shot (running on 5 cylinders), and since I'm going to replace it I want something a little more fun.
This all sounds a bit more complicated than I had originally thought. I have to do more research to see which route I'm going to go now. Do I drop in a 4.0l and convert the fuel system, and electrical? or do I drop in a V8, eliminate wiring, and mod (what seems to be everything) mounting points, drive shafts, axles, etc.
I feel like I'm back at square one...what to do...

[COPPERHEAD85]

sit down and make a list of both swaps................then spend some more time doing the research on both

[Ranger5.0]

the wireing inst imossable, and considering the age of your truck, you dont have to deal with much to start with. If you get a efi doner vehicle, take everything, the engine harness, the ecm, and the chassie harness. Then you hook the EFI charging system up to your truck, hook some gauges up, and there ya go. EFI isnt crap, people get intimidated by it because its different, but no longer new technology. A wireing diagram, some coffie, smokes if you got'em, and some time and you would be fine. Thats my 2
cents.
As for mounting the T case, it fights neetly between the frame rails, a small notch was made on the bottom of the left rail to alow me to R&I the t case when the time comes. I had to move the crossmember a bit, but by that point i decidedto fab up my own crossmember that was tucked up out of the way. Nothing worth doing is easy, or fast.

[projectnitemare]

Being that you have a 2.8L you don't have the computer stuff now anyway which a carbed V8 would be exactly the same; no computer needed. A 4.0L or a EFI V8 will be about the same amount of work electrically speaking. You need to take all the engine electronics from a donor and place them in your truck. Like said earlier, this stuff isn't new technology anymore so there is more help out there if you decide to go at it. If you aren't going to beat the truck the stock axles will survive but you have to know when not to punch it. Most all the fullsize transmissions fit without any cutting but try to choose a t-case you don't need to cut anything. Some areas, especially mine, you will immediately fail state inspection if you have notches in your frame. There is a lot of thought when you convert to a new system that wasn't factory. I was at your point once; I wanted the power.

Matt

[Ranger5.0]

Who doesnt want the power hahaha. Im not recomending cutting the frame, i do know some places are realy picky about what we do with our rigs. As far as breaking things, my opinion is, you can break any part with any engine if you dont folow this mental warning "Caution, always engage brain brain befor operating anything else"...i say that tomyself any time i do somthing stupid

[geoph1986]

Alright, I've done some more research, on both the 4.0L & V8 swaps. My budget is about $1500 +/-. I don't have the proper tools to start notching & reinforcing the frame. I'm fine with (and capable) moving crossmembers for the trans & t-case.
Is there a way to keep my stock t-case in the stock location without the need of an adapter? I would like to avoid modifying the driveshaft lengths if possible, if not oh well.
I know I need the engine (302/5.0L) & trans (probably C4 or AOD),
I guess the bottom line question is, what t-case would be the best choice for me and my budget?
Like I said before, this truck will still be my daily driver and I don't need anything extreme. The main offroad use this thing will see, will be for hunting, fishing, and the occasional snow storm. The 2.8L was able to handle this just fine. Of course I will take it to "play" once in a while, and I plan on have this be an ongoing build.
I don't think I'll replace the Dana 28, or the 7.5" rear quite yet (unless I get an Explorer donor), although it will be in my plan.
I know that these questions have been asked again & again, but for us guys that have never done a conversion, it's a little confusing.
Oh yea, what are mustang convertible motor mounts? Are they actually the mounts from a convertible car? and what's so great about them?

[COPPERHEAD85]

the mounts you can get at any parts store,they are a heavy duty mount.
i think i have a c-5,ill check and see,if so ill sell you the tail shaft cheap then all youll need is a c-4 and you can keep your t-case,front and rear drive shafts (pretty sure of this,but if iam wrong someone chime in its been a while since i did this)
look into getting the grand marc. itll have the pan you need and you can use the motor as a core for a long block or build it yourself.
i would expect to spend around 2 grand to do this.alot will depend on how much time and how thrifty you are.allot of times you can buy junkers or wrecks that have alot of the parts you need and you can sell the rest to recoup some funds.
my project has taken me right at 5 yrs to get where its at (somehwere along the way it got a little outa hand..lol)by thinking ,planning and shopping theres no reason why you cant do this and not have a powerful and depenable truck just dont cut corners......itll bite you in the arse in the end the same as overkill has done me.

[projectnitemare]

It is tough to do these on a tight budget or any engine conversion for that matter. My big thing is with the super tight budget is if you stick to it you will cut corners on stuff. Even if you use a C4/C5 setup that still isn't going to gurantee you won't need driveshaft mods. Where the engine goes will determine that. If you have a lot of time on your side you will be more likely to go on the cheap; you have time to shop and swap. The 4.0 can be done for $1500 or less. If you were doing a 2wd 302 swap I would say $1500 is possible, I've done it. A 4x4 makes things a little more complicated and expensive. The NP 205 will fit with no frame cutting at all. If you have a very mechanically inclined friend who can weld driveshafts are not hard to make.

Matt

[geoph1986]

Thanks for all the input guys. Currently I don't think I'm ready both with my skills & wallet to do a V8 swap. I'm going to try the 4.0L swap and if that all goes well, I try a V8 in my next project. Thanks again for all the info.

[mudranger]

When I did mine, I was originally going to go with the EFI already on the motor. But after careful consideration, I decided that I didn't want to spend the next six months chasing engine codes and replacing sensors. Also, I did not really want to trust in a 14 year old harness, with its inevitble cracks, frays and problems. I weighed both options, and decided to keep it simple and retrofit a carb setup. It has worked very well, especially since I used all new parts, and bought good stuff. On the other hand, I don't climb alot of hills, which would be tougher with the carb setup unless you used a holley truck avenger or something similar.
I replaced the mechanical feul pump with a generic 7psi electric pump that I mounted on the from right at the tank. (so far, so good)
As for the motor mounts, I got a set of mounts for a 93 Mustang convertible I think they were from Summit, made by Energy Suspension, and they were in the $50-$60 range. I considered making my own mounts, but I was already fabbing a bunch of stuff, and it was just easier to order them.
One of the previous posters was right, you don't want to try to use a 2wd donor setup for a 4wd app, since it is just creating a ton of extra work with no real benefit. I recommended the exploder setup becuase they seem to be more common, and most of the yard sploders seem to have lower miles and died in wrecks, whereas the f-150s mostly seem have landed there from having been worn completely out. Having said that, check both, you never know....