Duratec 35

[Southern_Trendkill]

Has anyone ever tried to put one of these into a ranger?

[Wicked_Sludge]

not that ive heard of.

the duratec engine family is supposed to share a common bellhousing bolt pattern. if thats the case, the 3.5 should bolt right to a 2.3 duratec transmission. of coarse this means no 4wd unless you tear the 2.3 trans apart to convert it.

the intake appears to by symmetrical, so it could probably be flipped. coolant lines would have to be rerouted, motor mounts fabbed, wiring harnesses modified, and exhaust work done.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Dont 3.5's have the same bolt pattern as the 3.0 DOHC duratechs, which have the same bolt patterns as the vulcan 3.0 used in rangers that you could get a trans from? Or do I have my bolt patters confused?

[rurouni20xx]

3.0 vulcan, 3.0 dohc (taurus sho) and fwd only 3.8s share a bolt pattern, duratec 30 and 35s are the same if im not mistaken, but you cant just bolt it to a vulcan engine or tranny (i wish you could...)

[Roadkill]

I'm not so sure on the 3.0 Vulcan and 3.0 Mitsubishi motors having the same bolt pattern. It was my understanding that the Vulcan (was also in the non-SHO Taurus cars) is it's own unique pattern. None of the Duratech engines will match a Vulcan pattern for sure.

[rurouni20xx]

the taurus sho was a yamaha-ford vulcan project, yamaha made the heads and cam assy that fit on vulcan 3.0 internals. what does mitsu have to do w/ any of this you have piqued my curiosity here. i know they had the tranny line b4 mazda did, thats about all i know.

[Roadkill]

Sorry, I knew it was an import company that made the SHO engine. Couldn't quite remember the exact one. I had always heard that the Yamaha SHO engine was it's own beast not similar to any other Ford engine.

If it is indeed a Vulcan block then that makes some swaps much easier. As long as you weld the cams on the SHO engine before the gears spin and blow up things.

[99RangerBoss]

hey so does the sho motor share the same internals as the vulvan like the pistons connecting rods and crank?

[rurouni20xx]

not sure i would imagine the the pistons are dif tho cuz they have to be milled out for 4 valves instead of just two. the rods etc im unsure about but i would imagine they are similar. the crank will be dif since it has to run the timing system on the heads, and the block will be dif since the cams are in the heads rather than above the crank w/ the usual lifter setup. i know they share a common bolt pattern, i havent seen the engine but i know how dohc 24 valve v6s are setup. when i was considering my options i wouldnt have minded doing a 3.3 stroker sho motor and then boosting it but the crank and internals are dif so i just opted to redo my existing motor. a boosted 3.0 sho swap would b kewl but i already have my motor, and i dont know where a 3.0 sho motor is. easier on me this way than trying to find a motor then working on it. ive looked up the specs but unless i physically tear it down and compare parts i cant tell you if the rods are the same and the block etc. best as i can tell the dohc sho engine is derived from the vulcan ohv engine.

[99RangerBoss]

i was thinking if the internals were the same it could be swappable to the ohv block but like you said the valve releifs would screw it up i guess the only way to get a stronger motor would be the morana kit or flatlander racings one

[rurouni20xx]

flatlander racing? im going to build a morana 3.3 turbo, ive never heard of flatlander racing.

[Wicked_Sludge]

the taurus sho was a yamaha-ford vulcan project, yamaha made the heads and cam assy that fit on vulcan 3.0 internals.

the 3.0/3.2 SHO used in the '89-94 tauri are all yamaha. ford ORIGINALLY wanted yamaha to use the vulcan block but yamaha took one look at it and said "ya right". so the SHO block is its own unit. the only common thing between the SHO and vulcan is the bellhousing bolt pattern.

SHO internals have been made to fit the vulcan, but it takes excessive machine work on the crank/mains. its anything but bolt-in.

As long as you weld the cams on the SHO engine before the gears spin and blow up things.

thats the v-8 SHO used in the '95 and up taurus'. the 3.0/3.2 SHO does not suffer from this problem (and its non-interference, unlike the v-8). the v-8 IS a ford/yamaha hybrid, using a duratec block with yamaha heads/guts.

the 3.0 vulcan, DOHC 3.0/3.2 SHO, FWD 3.8 block, and 2.3 HSC used in the tempo (NOT related to the 2.3 lima used in rangers/mustangs/t-brids/etc) all share a bellhousing bolt pattern.

the 3.5 duratec, 3.0 duratec, 3.4 SHO, 2.3 duratec...and on down the line.. should all use one bellhousing bolt pattern.

[99RangerBoss]

yeah flatlander racing has made custom pistons before for the vulvan and all that shit my buddy was going to sup-up his v-6 tempo at one point and he inquired about it

[rurouni20xx]

interesting about the flatlander ill look that up, and your right about the sho engines, i got the v8 and v6 confused. if the sho 3.0 wasnt so much id do the swap, but since i have a 3.0 already im going to build that up instead for less $$$.

[LittleHorse]

I've thought about a 3.0 or 3.2 SHO motor in my 4x4 Bronco II...at first I was put off by the torque peak moving up by 1000RPM, but then I actually saw the tq curve and realized that the SHO motor makes more tq than the 2.9 through the entire rpm range, and the 3.2 isn't far off from the 4.0. Since I've got a shelled trans I'm gonna have to buy one or rebuild anyway, wouldn't be any harder to find another M5OD out of a 3.0 4x4 Ranger instead of a 2.9/4.0 and get a motor to go along.

I kinda fell in love with that engine when I had an SHO and have been wanting to put one in something ever since. I'd love to hear from someone who's done it before, just to know how it drives and whether I'd really want an 8000RPM redline in a 4x4. Then again, the BII doesn't weigh much more than the SHO to start with...

[rurouni20xx]

ive been trying to find a 3.0 m50d for a while, found one and didnt have the money, i can afford a higher mileage tranny right now and i can rebuild it later.

[pud]

The SHO was a vulcan block, the only shortblock differences internally were pistons, rod length and rod journal diameter.
the SHO rods were longer with a smaller journal and the pistons had 4 valve reliefs and a shorter pin height.

a bunch of ford engines internal measurements from FRPP. Ive only found 1 discretion where the 2.9L block height is wrong.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/217.pdf

the 3.4L SHO v8 is as far as I can see the same as a duratec with a smaller bore and 2 more cylinders.

[rurouni20xx]

the sho isnt a vulcan block thats been discussed already, there is no place for the ohv cam and pushrod assy area. its all one piece if im not mistaken, havent had one apart but its a separate block that shares the bolt pattern.

[Wicked_Sludge]

rurouni20xx is correct. as i said before, the only thing the SHO shares with the vulcan is the transmission bolt pattern. the blocks are completely different (and not just because of the valve trane descretions).

[08 Orange Crush]

I have been pondering the SHO swap for about 2 months now, It is possible in the ranger provided you have the M5OD tranny, the bolt patterns do match up. the issue comes when mounting the engine, it will require a lot of fab work. the big problem is with the ECU, the 93 and 94 rangers have the EEC-IV ECU the same as all SHO 3.0 engines. 95 and up have the OBD II EEC-V and the wires arent even close. Since my ranger is an 08' I`m not ready to butcher the harness just yet. the bottom line here is you can put any engine in any vehicle. It all depends on how much you are willing to weld and how much $$ you have. I would see your Duratec swap is wiring not the drive train, you can have any number of adapters made on a CNC as long as you can do some engineering work and are good in PRO-E or AutoCad. I used the CNC here at the air force base when I did my 350 and 4-spd swap in my last project although you all frown on ricers my 240sx was more of a japanese corvette than anything. Just my input on what seems a bleak outlook for my SHO and your Duratec swap.

-J

[LittleHorse]

I have to say it still sounds easier than my last researched SHO swap recipient - a Mazda Miata. The crossmember goes right through where the oil pan should be, the top of the intake on the SHO would be about 4 inches above the stock Miata hood, and the centerline of the crank and transmission input/output shafts would still be high enough that the transmission wouldn't fit in the tunnel. Requires complete refabrication of the tunnel and much of the firewall, a custom oil pan, a 5" cowl induction hood which would look retarded on a Miata, and all the mounts and exhaust work.

That said, since I made that last post I've more or less abandoned the SHO transplant idea, at least into my BII. Maybe into a 2WD Ranger some day, but for a 4x4 it just sounds like way too much work to risk potentially being disappointed with having the power/tq in the upper RPM range. It also doesn't help that despite all the talk of it I've seen here on TRS, I have yet to actually find one that's complete and running. I am aware of the SHO Ranger but I have no way of knowing what sort of modifications to the chassis or the engine itself was involved in accomplishing that, and the sky is the limit given that Ford has basically infinite resources in that regard.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable about a 4.0 or a 2.3T.

[pud]

the only thing the SHO shares with the vulcan is the transmission bolt pattern.
bull.... the bore, stroke, bore spacing, main journail diam, deck height and transmission bolt pattern are the same. You could, for no good reason, take a 3.0L SHO rotating assy and put it in the non SHO block, and vice versa.
The only difference will be the front of the block where the OHC timing belts would be.

[rurouni20xx]

as said b4 the rotating assy needs to be machined in, not worth it. the front of the crank is dif for ohc pulleys instead of timing gears. as for the miata swap, i wouldnt bother putting the sho into a miata, an rx7 motor/trans bolt right in, seen it done. much more hp w/ a twin turbo rotary than the sho.

[LittleHorse]

as for the miata swap, i wouldnt bother putting the sho into a miata, an rx7 motor/trans bolt right in, seen it done. much more hp w/ a twin turbo rotary than the sho.

that was why I abandoned the idea...too much work just for the "cool factor" of the SHO motor.

If I did any swap into a Miata it would probably be a Nissan SR20DET that everybody swaps into the 240SX, or for that matter just build up and turbocharge the factory Mazda engine.

[rurouni20xx]

the mazda 1.8 is a pretty sweet engine w/ cams and forged internals at 12:1. turboing it a 9:1 is also a good idea. the only prob i have w/ the engine/tranny combo is 5th gear is like a heavy o/d, you are going pretty good in 4th then you put it in 5th and you slow down cuz the engine isnt quite strong enuff to pull it. ive heard of a 6 speed close ratio swap, just dont know what out of and that took care of it, and increased the top speed by 30 mph. the sr20 turbo motor out of a silvia 2000cc is a pretty sweet motor, but the fabbing etc required to do that swap you could do the mazda 1.8 for cheaper plus no fab work required. hell if your going to put a nissan in a mazda go for a vg30dett out of a 300zx twin turbo 2x2, oversize the turbos and theres a 1000hp easy.

[LittleHorse]

the mazda 1.8 is a pretty sweet engine w/ cams and forged internals at 12:1. turboing it a 9:1 is also a good idea. the only prob i have w/ the engine/tranny combo is 5th gear is like a heavy o/d, you are going pretty good in 4th then you put it in 5th and you slow down cuz the engine isnt quite strong enuff to pull it. ive heard of a 6 speed close ratio swap, just dont know what out of and that took care of it, and increased the top speed by 30 mph. the sr20 turbo motor out of a silvia 2000cc is a pretty sweet motor, but the fabbing etc required to do that swap you could do the mazda 1.8 for cheaper plus no fab work required. hell if your going to put a nissan in a mazda go for a vg30dett out of a 300zx twin turbo 2x2, oversize the turbos and theres a 1000hp easy.

It's been five years since I've driven a 5 speed Miata so I don't remember, but I can attest that I often wish the 6th gear in my Miata was more of an overdrive...I get tired of cruising the highway at 80mph and the engine buzzing along at 4k. I think it's rather silly that the top gear in a 2.0L 4cyl is numerically high enough that I don't even have to downshift to pass.

Mine is a 2006, and the transmission is not easily swappable to the older models, but the year before mine was when they had the MazdaSpeed turbo with a 6 speed. I have yet to drive one, but I'd like to own one and mod the hell out of it some day. I would have preferred that one to begin with but their resale was so high and the financing deals on the '06 were so good that it was coming out cheaper in the end to get the newer model.

[rurouni20xx]

well the 6 speed factory is news to me, the last one i rode in (the first yr rwd i cant remember) only had a 5 speed, you went from 4th at 110 to 5th and you couldnt accelerate unless you were going downhill almost to the full 135. this was the older 1.8 as well. did they ever make a hardtop for one? all the ones i seen were soft tops and the newer one is a hardtop convertible. all this import talk makes me wish i had the money for that s2000 that was on sale for 12k...

[Wicked_Sludge]

bull.... the bore, stroke, bore spacing, main journail diam, deck height and transmission bolt pattern are the same. You could, for no good reason, take a 3.0L SHO rotating assy and put it in the non SHO block, and vice versa.
The only difference will be the front of the block where the OHC timing belts would be.

youve never even seen an SHO have you...

one look at the block and its OBVIOUS that its different.

the SHO mains are 2.125", the vulcans are 2.5194". the SHO crank can be (and has been) made to fit the vulcan...but it takes over $500 worth of machine work.

the SHO and vulcan are not related and basically nothing will switch from one engine to the other without modification.

[LittleHorse]

the SHO crank can be (and has been) made to fit the vulcan...but it takes over $500 worth of machine work.


what I want to know is what would possess a person to want to do this to begin with. :icon_rofl:

[fastpakr]

well the 6 speed factory is news to me, the last one i rode in (the first yr rwd i cant remember) only had a 5 speed, you went from 4th at 110 to 5th and you couldnt accelerate unless you were going downhill almost to the full 135. this was the older 1.8 as well. did they ever make a hardtop for one? all the ones i seen were soft tops and the newer one is a hardtop convertible. all this import talk makes me wish i had the money for that s2000 that was on sale for 12k...
IIRC, the 6 speed came about as an option on the 10th year anniversary Miatas and has been available ever since.

They've never been anything but RWD.

[LittleHorse]

well the 6 speed factory is news to me, the last one i rode in (the first yr rwd i cant remember) only had a 5 speed, you went from 4th at 110 to 5th and you couldnt accelerate unless you were going downhill almost to the full 135. this was the older 1.8 as well. did they ever make a hardtop for one? all the ones i seen were soft tops and the newer one is a hardtop convertible. all this import talk makes me wish i had the money for that s2000 that was on sale for 12k...

yep, some time during the life cycle of the NB (second gen, with the non-popup headlights) they started offering a factory 6 speed as an option, with a 5 speed as standard. All have been RWD.

There are factory and aftermarket hard tops available for the NA and NB, they can usually be found for a few hundred bucks. I would have loved one for my NC but last time I looked there weren't any aftermarket ones, and Mazda wants $2500-$3500 for them, depending on the dealer. Mine actually had one on it when I test drove it and I would have bought it with the car had it not been for the $3500 price tag. So I'm still rocking the soft top year round. The power retractable hard top came out in '07, the second year of NC, but it's an option and most are still sold with the soft top.

[rurouni20xx]

the first ones around were fwd if im not mistaken, the ones w/ the turn signals sticking out w/ the headlights retracted, mid 90s i think. i rode in one that had the first yr solid headlights (not retractable) and soft top w/ a 1.8 5spd, silver in color and a 99 if im not mistaken. i loved it and seen another one shortly after at an import car show in elizabeth nj w/ the rx7 motor/trans in it. i asked them how much fab work they said none the mounts were the same which surprised me. it won the burnout competition and took 3rd in the drag race that was held elsewhere.