Project Anti-Axle Wrap - TracBar Question!

Hey,

So my current goal for the truck is to get rid of rear end vibration & axle wrap. I currently have 4" blocks in the rear, shackled on the stock springs.

I will soon be swapping that out for Skyjacker 4-5" springs, and Ill keep it shackled. I will also be installing a 1pc driveshaft after working on the front crossmember.

The other thing I am thinking is to install a traction bar, likely James Duff. I have found some Procomp ones & whatnot - but they just seem extremely, extremely expensive, especially when compared to the JD ones.

So here is the page from JD: http://www.jamesduff.com/broncoII/tracbar.html

Do you fellas think Id be alright to run the top set? Or is the bottom set really worth it? Remember now - this truck is my daily driver (mustang is the toy) but it does see its fair share of slingin mud.

Thanks!

Buuuump

it depends on how much offroad you do...

light to moderate offroad, with a fairly stock 4.0, top set will be fine, now if its a trail rig with a v8, the the bottom is what you need.

du510 said:

I will soon be swapping that out for Skyjacker 4-5" springs, and Ill keep it shackled. I will also be installing a 1pc driveshaft after working on the front crossmember.

Click to expand...

Just a helpfull hint, you don't need the cross member that the 2 piece drive shaft's center bearing mounts to. When you install the 1 piece shaft you can just remove that cross member. Its is not at all structural to the frame.

Sasquatch_Ryda said:

Just a helpfull hint, you don't need the cross member that the 2 piece drive shaft's center bearing mounts to. When you install the 1 piece shaft you can just remove that cross member. Its is not at all structural to the frame.

Click to expand...

thanks for that - i was originally thinking to pop out the carrier bearing and then notch out the crossmember...

how much easier is it to just straight up remove it? I thougth about taking a cutting torch to it, but the drivers side is so close to the gastank...

du510 said:

thanks for that - i was originally thinking to pop out the carrier bearing and then notch out the crossmember...

how much easier is it to just straight up remove it? I thougth about taking a cutting torch to it, but the drivers side is so close to the gastank...

Click to expand...

In order to modify the crossmember to work, you'd have to remove it anyways. Just throw it out instead of modifying it. IIRC it's riveted in. Just drill or grind off the rivets.

i used the classic bars for a while and they weren't very good at controlling hop with a 2.9l,it probably woulden't work well with the 4.0l.also if you wheel much the articulation will bend the brackets that bolt to the top of the springs

both of those arms will hurt articulation. build your own, single ladder style arm that either mounts to a crossmember via a shackle or has a slip joint at the crossmember end. those arms imply that leaf sprung suspensions cycle in a perfect arc. this is not true. by making a tracbar that mounts to a shackle or has a slip joint, you eliminate the bind, thus retaining your suspension travel. plus it'll be MUCH cheaper

rickcdewitt said:

i used the classic bars for a while and they weren't very good at controlling hop with a 2.9l,it probably woulden't work well with the 4.0l.also if you wheel much the articulation will bend the brackets that bolt to the top of the springs

Click to expand...

The Duff Old style bars are very good at controlling axle hop.

what they aren't any good at is controlling TIRE hop.

Back when I first got a pair of duff Bars I still experience "hop"
when stuck in some DEEP snow.

I actually had my brother try to drive the truck out while I crawled around and LOOKED at what was actually happening... BOTH tires were jumping away from momentary traction with the gravel and rock under the snow.

The AXLE was NOT "wrapping", the bars were doing EXACTLY what they were supposed to be doing.

Reality isn't always the same as perception.

Like the observation of the "one wheel peel" with a limited slip...
Frequently both tires are actually spinning the driver only notices the
one that is making noise because it has SOME traction.
The FALSE conclusion reached is that a locker would keep them from
getting stuck when the limited slip didn't, when in reality both wheels
spinning is both wheel spinning...

I have a 4.0 now and I get "smooth" burnouts even on fairly rough pavement.

I know people who have run the old style duff bars with 5.0's and
even 5.8's

duff used to make an IDENTICAL bar for full size ('81-96) Broncos
and it worked fine in those vehicles too.



AD

AllanD said:

The Duff Old style bars are very good at controlling axle hop.

what they aren't any good at is controlling TIRE hop.

Back when I first got a pair of duff Bars I still experience "hop"
when stuck in some DEEP snow.

I actually had my brother try to drive the truck out while I crawled around and LOOKED at what was actually happening... BOTH tires were jumping away from momentary traction with the gravel and rock under the snow.

The AXLE was NOT "wrapping", the bars were doing EXACTLY what they were supposed to be doing.

Reality isn't always the same as perception.

Like the observation of the "one wheel peel" with a limited slip...
Frequently both tires are actually spinning the driver only notices the
one that is making noise because it has SOME traction.
The FALSE conclusion reached is that a locker would keep them from
getting stuck when the limited slip didn't, when in reality both wheels
spinning is both wheel spinning...

I have a 4.0 now and I get "smooth" burnouts even on fairly rough pavement.

I know people who have run the old style duff bars with 5.0's and
even 5.8's

duff used to make an IDENTICAL bar for full size ('81-96) Broncos
and it worked fine in those vehicles too.



AD

Click to expand...

awesome info - thanks. im not worried about the hop, just the wrap.

a few weeks ago i tore off a fender flare b/c of the wrap.

thanks again

BTW, I greatly reduced the ammount of vertical hop (without wrap) by installing new shocks (at the time Monroe Sensatrac, but I now run Bilsteins)

I am not concerned with articulation, my concern for 4wd is SNOW
and to a lesser degree light (less than 1ft) mud

But I actually make my truck WORK, hauling stuff and a lot of towing, so....

To be honest you don't really notice the traction bars, what you notice is how much the rear suspension WAS "Dancing around" before you installled them

The truck just feels just so much more solid wiht the bars.

BTW, several years ago someone repeated an articulation test
with and without the old style duff bars... what they discovered
was that the Duff bars reduced articulation by slightly less than
1/2".

what you gain is more than worth what it costs.

Though sadly last I checked Duff discontinued their bars for the
Rangers '98 and earlier.

Honestly At this point if I needed another set I'd make my own.

I'd make them heavier though, not that they need to be heavy,
but using larger tube and 3/4" threaded rod (duff used 1/2") simply
makes the pieces easier to work with

And I'd use a large Heim Joint from TSC at the axle end...
perhaps both ends...

AD

AllanD said:

B
Though sadly last I checked Duff discontinued their bars for the
Rangers '98 and earlier.

Honestly At this point if I needed another set I'd make my own.


AD

Click to expand...

Why won't the newer Ranger bars work on the early Ranger???? The rear half of the truck hasn't changed much since '83.

AllanD said:

The Duff Old style bars are very good at controlling axle hop.

what they aren't any good at is controlling TIRE hop.


Reality isn't always the same as perception.




AD

Click to expand...

isen't the axle hopping when the tire does? i thought they were bolted together.
with 4" blocks he needs some kind of bar to prevent AXLE ROTATION.with that much leverage they are still going to wrap with the wimpy 50$ bars.they help but don't eliminate wrap with big tires in the right situations.the poly allows them to deflect enough to unload the suspension(even if you can't see it through the snow flying off your tires).something like the duff bars would help keep the tire away from the flares just don't flex them much or they will bend brackets.

Bent Bolt said:

Why won't the newer Ranger bars work on the early Ranger???? The rear half of the truck hasn't changed much since '83.

Click to expand...

The current Duff bars have an axle end bracket that is spaced for the larger diameter axle tube used on the FX4 and for those that have done the Explorer axle swap.

The Frame end of the setup is different because the front leaf spring bracket is different.

The bracket (viewed from the side) is more of a "U" shape
while the earlier bracket ('83-97) is more "V" shaped to the
angle where the bracket for the traction bar has to bolt on
is different.

rickcdewitt said:

isen't the axle hopping when the tire does? i thought they were bolted together.
with 4" blocks he needs some kind of bar to prevent AXLE ROTATION.with that much leverage they are still going to wrap with the wimpy 50$ bars.they help but don't eliminate wrap with big tires in the right situations.the poly allows them to deflect enough to unload the suspension(even if you can't see it through the snow flying off your tires).something like the duff bars would help keep the tire away from the flares just don't flex them much or they will bend brackets.

Click to expand...

No, it's more than a smantic difference.

when the axle is "wrapping" the leaf spring is bending into
an S-shape (viewed from the side), and as this happens
the vehicle tries to "squat" or more precisely as the axle
tries to "wrap" the spring around it the spring tries to yank
the axle (and thus the tires) off of the ground and the truck
"Drops" giving the perception of "squatting" as gravity pulls the truck down.

once the duff bars are installed this bending if the spring becomes impossible and because of the geometry between the spring, axle and bar if the spring tries to warp the axle is forced DOWN if it moves at all.

When running on snow and ice the rear tire can "Bounce" off
the surface as it tries to drive the stuck front axle through the obstruction.

I don't know how you'd get yourself into a similar situation with a 4x4
unless you had an open front diff AND a broken hub.

BTW, I sold a couple of sets of Duff bars to customers with bronco2's,
In all cases the first thing the auto tranny owners noticed that the normal "squat" that a bronco2 does when engaging drive or reverse
had disappeared.

If you have an Automatic trans bronco2 try this, have a friend sit in the drivers seat and with the brakes applied simply shift the trans into gear while watching the rear fender lip relative to the tire.

If you have "good" springs in the bronco2 it'll squat 1/2-3/4"
If your springs are pretty much wasted it'll drop an inch or more.

If you have Duff bars on the back it'll either not move at all
OR it'll briefly bounce 1/4-3/8" UP.

I have duff bars on my truck, I've installed them on several others
NOBODY actually having them has had anything other than positive comments about them... atleast not in my hearing or on TRS that I've seen.

AD

Yea - looks like they dont supply them anymore - can anyone get their hands on one for a 94?