Desert Racing - 2WD or 4WD?

[Jim Oaks]

Here is a poll for those of you who follow desert racing;

What do you think is better to build, a 2WD (lighter) or 4WD (to help you get out of some of the nasty stuff)?

[RebelAssaultTruk]

2 wheel drive for sure...figure if your main rate of speed is fast enough to be competetive, and your terrain is what your perunner is set up for aka DESERT, you won't run into any place you wld need 4 wheel drive...to engage it you'd need to stop or slow down...in a race that's time determined. the extra weight wouldn't benefit either. that's why prerunners r 2 wheel drive right?

[koda6966]

Two wheel, it's classic, doesn't hit as hard off jumps, cheaper to fix and less things can go wrong. Basically everything you could get yourself into in the desert could be fixed with a good locker, extreme screw ups with a winch. What's the point of light-weight parts and fiberglass body panels if your just going to weigh it down with 4x4 anyway?

Honestly, I'd be the guy Rockin' it in the Subaru. To hell with all you ranger people! (Only kidding, I love my 2wd Ranger.)

[BDAB]

4wd for when you run off the course.

[wahlstrom1]

4wd....Need a way of getting traction. There's a reason Trophy trucks outrun everything else, you need to be able to put the power to the ground. Lightweight parts allow 4wd to be used without a real 'weight penalty' as compared to a stock 2wd.

-andrew

[Mutant Pony]

I voted 2wd. I've run both in the sand. When you are talking about racing, you are talking about speed. At speed 4wd doesn't help you. The lack of weight on the front end does. Weight doesn't help you in the sand. Lighter the better. Desert racing also means air, the less downward inertia, the easier it is on your body.
If you were talking about exploring untrailed desert, It would definatly be 4wd. Without question.

[Wicked_Sludge]

2wd.

lighter - lighter landings, doesnt sink as far into the sand, and higher power to weight ratio.

less parts to break.

less unsprung weight on the front axle means better soaking of bumps and jumps.

easier to get extremely long travel out of.

and 4wd is just not needed for high speed desert racing.

[Anger]

4wd for desert racing.

[8594]

2WD for all the reasons I can think of but I'll take 4WD so that I can get through the silt beds, or around all the stuck 2WD rigs.
Yes, I have run both.

[grey ghost]

i'd run 2wd. if you have the 4x4 then your going to go places that you might get stuck{ could be fun} but the 2wd makes you think quicker so you don't get stuck and have to use the shovel..

[bmxryder]

in most races its not often to find places that you need 4wd. i would go with 2wd just for the fact that when you jump your front end wont dive quite as hard. its also cheaper and less parts to break.

[8594]

but the 2wd makes you think quicker

Riiight:icon_rofl:

[Ranger#1]

at one point or another your gonna wish u had 4wd there is a certen part in racing that involvs imagination haha

[Bryan22]

For sure 2WD if like it's allready been said, if you're going fast enough you don't need 4WD I am witness to this living in so-cal deserts, no need for 4wd unless we get LOTS of rain. pin it and hold on!:headbang:

[ckblum]

4wd....Need a way of getting traction. There's a reason Trophy trucks outrun everything else, you need to be able to put the power to the ground. Lightweight parts allow 4wd to be used without a real 'weight penalty' as compared to a stock 2wd.

-andrew

Actually Trophy Trucks outrun everything else because they have 800+ HP and cycle over 2 feet (sometimes 3) of suspension travel and spend hours tuning shocks with quad bypasses and coil-overs all around. If you spend $700 000+ it's hard not to beat the other classes.

Also most Trophy Trucks are 2wd, I can only think of one that was built 4wd and I can't even remember who built it so chances are it wasn't too significant and probably didn't do well enough to remember lol jk jk.

My vote is on 2wd for racing but since I live in BC I would definately build a 4wd if I could. Funny thing is I am building a 2wd anyways haha.

[canyoncritter]

you could go back and forth on this all day long like the chicken or the egg first deal.


For a "race" truck both have thier pro's and con's.

2wd, cheaper & less part's over all . Alot more on the market for 2wd. 90% of the race tracks have no need for 4wd.

4wd, cost more in the extra parts, add's some weight,not as many vendors in the market, but is priceless when driving past stuck 2wd in the silt beds and "goat trail" type of hill climbs. Been stuck up to my knees before in silt.Not saying 4wd will always save your ass, but sometimes its nice!

for a "pre runner" I would want a 4wd.just for the extra insurance.And to be able to crusie the track, stop pretty much any place and be able to "Start" again.

I've had 3 2wd's and its amazing where you can get a spooled up 2wd and the places it will go but sometimes that extra front tire pulling along is "priceless" at the moment. But I do admit, when putting one toghter it can be a real piss off to see the abundance of 2wd parts on the "used/cheap ass" market.lol..

[BDAB]

for a stadium truck I would want 2wd hands down, but out in the open 2wd has a habit of letting me down and leaving me walking looking for help or a pair of draft horses/mules/ wild donkeys...........

[TayCo 7s]

down here in ensenada theres one class 7s that has 4wd on it and it kicked serious ass on a short course race but on the desert nobody notices it

[8594]

...but on the desert nobody notices it

Except of course in the Baja just past where the silt beds slowed to a comparative crawl everything 2WD not in the TT or C1 classes... not to mention the assents and descents through the pass...
Not that I was there and admittedly I have only talked to 15 or 20 people first hand that were actually driving...

It really is a pick your poison choice, 4WD costs more to build and that is about it when you are building serious budget or race level equipment.
And I have both 2WD and 4WD Rangers so I can choose the right rig for the task at hand.

[TayCo 7s]

yeah considering the class 11 volkswagens and class 5 have 4x4 in the silt beds . dude come on... why dont all the big money class 7 trucks have 4x4 .cause they cant afford it? yeah right its not worth carrying around all that sh*t for using it once if that... plus you dont want more mechanical parts to fail on you . simplicity is also a big factor sometimes

[8594]

yeah considering the class 11 volkswagens and class 5 have 4x4 in the silt beds . dude come on... why dont all the big money class 7 trucks have 4x4 .cause they cant afford it? yeah right its not worth carrying around all that sh*t for using it once if that... plus you dont want more mechanical parts to fail on you . simplicity is also a big factor sometimes

Unwadd em!
I have fawking both 4 & 2WD, and have run both at speed, and been doing it for over 30 years.
If you want 2WD that is just OK fine by me (I have one) I sure as hell do not give a damn what you race as long as you are having fun doing it!

Your points...

Big dollar???
C1 is about $175,000 to about $300,000... TT is about a quarter mill up.
Class 7s in averaging under $100k and 7 is less then that, chump change by comparison!
Parts failures, more 2WD rigs DNF'd then 4WD.
The 4WD rigs that DNF'd were mostly due to parts that have nothing to do with the front drive.
Class 11 is the true ironman class and I have nothing but respect even at 2MPH through the silt....

Done.

[Ranger#1]

The 4WD rigs that DNF'd were mostly due to parts that have nothing to do with the front drive. thaat is what i was thinking i would think 4 wd is beefer than 2 wd

[TayCo 7s]

Unwadd em!
I have fawking both 4 & 2WD, and have run both at speed, and been doing it for over 30 years.
If you want 2WD that is just OK fine by me (I have one) I sure as hell do not give a damn what you race as long as you are having fun doing it!

Your points...

Big dollar???
C1 is about $175,000 to about $300,000... TT is about a quarter mill up.
Class 7s in averaging under $100k and 7 is less then that, chump change by comparison!
Parts failures, more 2WD rigs DNF'd then 4WD.
The 4WD rigs that DNF'd were mostly due to parts that have nothing to do with the front drive.
Class 11 is the true ironman class and I have nothing but respect even at 2MPH through the silt....

Done.

i ment big dollar as in the teams that have more money than others in the class 7 (averaje joes vs. well off companies) .. forget about the trophys and class 1´s jesus come on:icon_rofl:

100k class 7s huh... and class 7 cheaper... right...:icon_confused:
maybe more 2wds failed because there is almost six times as many 2wd than
4wd.. please get your google facts straight

ivan stewart is the true ironman :icon_surprised:

period

[8594]

i ment big dollar as in the teams that have more money than others in the class 7 (averaje joes vs. well off companies) .. forget about the trophys and class 1´s jesus come on:icon_rofl:

100k class 7s huh... and class 7 cheaper... right...:icon_confused:
maybe more 2wds failed because there is almost six times as many 2wd than
4wd.. please get your google facts straight

ivan stewart is the true ironman :icon_surprised:

period

Enjoy:icon_rofl:

[84projectFORD]

ok guys the whole reason we started this forum part was for helpful info and on ideas that people have and would like to try. Every person has their own opinion and is entitled to it but bullshit fighting with eachother is not what we are here for. save it for another place. I might be comin across harsh on this but i dont want this forum to turn inot a dramarangers. there is a reason i like this one so much because there is no of this cussin eachother out and sayin "my opinion is always right and everyone should abide by it".


Anyhow, i prefer 2wd over 4wd due to how cheap it is and how readily avaible parts are. now when your racing long distance, chances are you will prerun the coarse first and find the deep silt beds and bad hill climbs. thats when you find your ways around it or best trail up it.

4wd is a great back up and would be great on a prerunner but for racing application i do not believe it is the best way. should something break, bend or sieze in the front end that part will most likely be more expensive than something on a 2wd and things will break. in all the desert races i have seen and been in though i have yet to see where you have to have 4wd to make it to the finish line. To me a 4wd is just not worth it, its too expensive to buy and to fix nor is it practical in my eyes but there are others out there that think differently. to each his own

Actually Trophy Trucks outrun everything else because they have 800+ HP and cycle over 2 feet (sometimes 3) of suspension travel and spend hours tuning shocks with quad bypasses and coil-overs all around. If you spend $700 000+ it's hard not to beat the other classes.

Also most Trophy Trucks are 2wd, I can only think of one that was built 4wd and I can't even remember who built it so chances are it wasn't too significant and probably didn't do well enough to remember lol jk jk.

My vote is on 2wd for racing but since I live in BC I would definately build a 4wd if I could. Funny thing is I am building a 2wd anyways haha.

yes all TT are 2wd drive except for the terrible herbst trophy truck. the problem with 4wd in a TT is the limit to wheel travel and now you are turning more mass which can put more load on all teh drive line parts and cause premature failure. the most the herbst can run is 20" reliably. reg TT's run 27+ up front

[Jim Oaks]

Let's not start with the bickering.

It's just a poll.

I'm sure people have their own reason for choosing 2WD or 4WD.

People can have the same arguements all day long about whether to have a manual or automatic in a trail rig.

[TayCo 7s]

dramarangers... LoL that was a good one

[DirtyBaconRacing]

TT have 800hp, spool, and 26"+ of front travel......the only 4wd TT i can think of is the old Macpherson TT form the late 90s......when u are going 120+, u dont really need 4wd.....and when u get in the sticky stuff, u always got that spool to get u out

[8594]

Who cares really? Run it! You can pay big bucks for a race truck weather its 2 or 4wd but that doesn't mean it comes with talent. If your a good driver you can get though the worst desert with an open diff 2 flats and 5 cylinders.....


No problems here:D

[8594]

You sir have a "4wd for the right task" until you can do it all in a 2wd then your still lacking talent... I'm just messing with ya haha!:icon_rofl:

True nuff!:icon_cheers:
I build em for real drivers, and I only think I'm fast... when I'm sleeping!

[84projectFORD]

Who cares really? Run it! You can pay big bucks for a race truck weather its 2 or 4wd but that doesn't mean it comes with talent. If your a good driver you can get though the worst desert with an open diff 2 flats and 5 cylinders.....

:icon_rofl: haha oh thats good stuff! i kinda did something like that. in our race rhino we won the AVi 150 on a broken RR axle, flat LR tire, CVT clutch that was stuck open (no bottom end, all top end), a batt that was dying, 240 degree water temp and the guy behind us was haulin to catch us. we won by 3 min haha.

[shaun_kite]

2wd pref. for travel and simplicity. Both platforms are only as good as the driver.

[rngrdngr]

2wd for desert racing. 4wd for areana racing. +2 to shaun-kite it depends on how good the driver is. you can have a 800hp 4wd truck with a dude that cant drive and get stuck.

[odie1969]

True nuff!:icon_cheers:
I build em for real drivers, and I only think I'm fast... when I'm sleeping!

So are you saying you are only fast in BED :icon_rofl:. But I don't know Crap about racing. Maybe one day if I'm lucky I can find a Right Seat in a Ride.

[84projectFORD]

So are you saying you are only fast in BED :icon_rofl:. But I don't know Crap about racing. Maybe one day if I'm lucky I can find a Right Seat in a Ride.

ill let you in my right seat but at a certain price :D:icon_rofl:

[Frank The Tank]

IFS has come a long way.... it's quickly becoming the new standard in rock crawling.

I believe you can have a lightweight purpose built 4wd, that will get you off the line, and let you put all the power to the ground in curves, and on the off chance you have to dodge a local and sling out into the sand.

I believe the main thing would be an exact matched front and rear drive ratio to protect the hard parts at high speed (most front ends pull a hair faster than the rear)

Frank

Frank

[RaceRanger97]

if 4wd was necissary there would be more than just one 4wd TT

[c_note]

i am a b ig 4wd guy. ive driven in ocotillo wells where i raced my 2wd buddy. 4wd sucks in the sand, hands down. if your taking a turn in loose sand with 4wd, it keeps pulling you out of the turn taking even longer to make the turn unlike where in 2wd you just drift it and keep going. 4wd slowed me down alot and as soon as i put it in 2wd, it was like night in day.

hands down, 2wd for the desert!

[84projectFORD]

IFS has come a long way.... it's quickly becoming the new standard in rock crawling.

I believe you can have a lightweight purpose built 4wd, that will get you off the line, and let you put all the power to the ground in curves, and on the off chance you have to dodge a local and sling out into the sand.

I believe the main thing would be an exact matched front and rear drive ratio to protect the hard parts at high speed (most front ends pull a hair faster than the rear)

Frank

Frank

i think your right to a point. i have not really seen any IFS rock crawlers (except for Walker evans old buggy and The new moster buggy that has IFS in the front but that is built for rock racing). the problem you will see with using 4wd is like c_note said. unless you heve the power to set up the corner like a rally spec subaru, 4wd inhibits your turnin ability. Now as a TT may have the power for this, they will then have to worry about more parts that could potentionally fail and cost them a race. Untill a 4wd become cost worthy and shown that it is a must in a TT, you probably wont see it in desert racing. i know the guys that 4wd trucks only use the 4wd when they hit big silt beds. Other than that, its jsut added weight.

People have run 2wd vehicles in the desert and baja since the begining of baja. Its the challenge of trying to be the desert where this all originated from and thats the way i look at racing in the desert. If i can beat the desert, i won the race in my book :D

[Frank The Tank]

Holy crab-pants batman!!!

IRS is getting big in rock crawling too....
Moab XRRA event saw it's first IRS IFS rock racing winner.... Rick Deremo
Another arguement for IRS IFS coming up in the world of offroad is Shannon Cambell, who rock races pushing power with an LS3 midmount engine.


This was the April 2009 event in Moab, Utah.

August 2009 Hot Rod covered it....
looks like the rock crawlers are doing it for weight.

I think it will quickly move into the rest of the off-road sports world as the standard.

Frank

[84projectFORD]

Holy crab-pants batman!!!

IRS is getting big in rock crawling too....
Moab XRRA event saw it's first IRS IFS rock racing winner.... Rick Deremo
Another arguement for IRS IFS coming up in the world of offroad is Shannon Cambell, who rock races pushing power with an LS3 midmount engine.


This was the April 2009 event in Moab, Utah.

August 2009 Hot Rod covered it....
looks like the rock crawlers are doing it for weight.

I think it will quickly move into the rest of the off-road sports world as the standard.

Frank

hmm thats pretty cool but shannon cambells ride is only IFS and a regular straight axle in the back. its the same one he ran in this years King of the Hammers plus Dirt Sports mag did a section on his new rig. im sure in a year or less he will have IRS though :D

[Frank The Tank]

hmm thats pretty cool but shannon cambells ride is only IFS and a regular straight axle in the back. its the same one he ran in this years King of the Hammers plus Dirt Sports mag did a section on his new rig. im sure in a year or less he will have IRS though :D

I'm not trying to argue.... but that was on page 78 of the August 09 Hot Rod.

If it's wrong blame HRM Editor in Chief..... David Freidburger.

Frank

[fmxfreak]

i voted 2wd, just because i have one.... sometimes i get made fun of because of people sayin im tryin to make it look like a 4wd... oh well :thefinger: them

[kenny172]

Actually Trophy Trucks outrun everything else because they have 800+ HP and cycle over 2 feet (sometimes 3) of suspension travel and spend hours tuning shocks with quad bypasses and coil-overs all around. If you spend $700 000+ it's hard not to beat the other classes.

Also most Trophy Trucks are 2wd, I can only think of one that was built 4wd and I can't even remember who built it so chances are it wasn't too significant and probably didn't do well enough to remember lol jk jk.

My vote is on 2wd for racing but since I live in BC I would definately build a 4wd if I could. Funny thing is I am building a 2wd anyways haha.

it was the herbst's family that ran 4wd on their trophy truck and it was every race the entire truck would be rebuilt top to bottom no dime spared. the cv joints that they used in the front end were used out of a helicopter rotor pivot. only thing at the time that would take the torque and have the oporating range to provied 26 inches of wheel travel. but that doesnt matter anymore they all have brand new 2wd trophy trucks... must be nice to be loaded