View Full Version : Expedition style BII
Beanmachine7000
11-23-2008, 10:27 PM
Hey guys, I've had my BII for about 6 months, and only driven it for two due to a head leaking problem :( The culprit 2.9 is now in my barn, waiting a transplant, but I've changed my mind. Since I have my Ranger to drive and I will need something to work with, the BII is on the chopping block. What I've decided I need is something like an expedition type vehicle, (Land Rover-LandCruiser emulate). I figured I would see what direction everyone would go with it... I guess this is a what would you build type question. Here's what I was planning...
1. Must be diesel powered. (Cummins B3.3, 4BT, International 3.0, etc.?)
2. Manual tranny
3. The option of full time 4wd would be real nice (NP242?)
4. Solid front axle (one that would work with full-time 4wd (Grand Cherokee D44?)
5. Fab work, and money are no object (realistically... $5k for new axles would be extreme) I'll be building this in stages over the progressing summers...
I just would like to see everyones opinions/suggestions...
Thanks
I would use 80 series LandCruiser (93 - 97, or 93 - 97 Lexus LX450) axles with the optional electric locking diffs. those have 4.10's and the rear is full float and they are coil sprung in the front. they are also stronger that jeep D44's. I believe the rear axle is also a center drop diff instead of a pass. side drop like older models. there was a cummins 3.3 floating around on Ih8mud.com, might still be there. I would also use a cruiser 4spd with a Ranger torque splitter because the cruiser 4spd will stand up to the abuse from a 4bt or a detroit 4-53 2 stroke and you can get an adapter to bolt the cruiser 4spd up to your GM full time T-case, however I would still use a part time t-case with full time axles. The cruiser coil springs will also support the weight of the 4bt in a light weight B2...... the 80 series weighs around 6 grand stock and its 4.5L I6 is heavy.
Beanmachine7000
11-23-2008, 10:48 PM
I was thinking about using Cruiser axles, but I had heard mixed feelings everywhere about their strength, I've heard them being almost as strong as 60's then I've also heard about them being weak... So, what you're saying drivetrain wise is the B3.3, or 4BT-Cruiser 4spd (what about the Cruiser 5-speed H55 is it?)-Np 242 (which does have optoins for 2hi-fulltime 4-4hi-4lo)-80 series cruiser axles? I thought I read somewhere that the cruiser front axle is a FF too? I may be wrong... I'd like to have FF axles, just for securities sake... I'll have to look up some info on those axles... I'd love to have a 80 series cruiser, but I got the BII and I already have too many vehicles, lol...
all front axles are full float. the 40 series axles are weak, and so are the pre 1980 60 series axles. the '80 and later 60/62 axles are bullet proof and so are the 80 series. the 5spd would work but you are limited to that t-case. I suggested the 4spd with a gear splitter ...... well crap ...... here are the links
http://www.sor.com/sor/cat068d.tam
http://www.sor.com/sor/cat332.tam?xax=30254&page.ctx=cat332.tam
for the pair you pay less than what the h55 would cost, plus the gear splitter is also the adapter.... make sure your 3.3 or 4bt have the chevy bell pattern. you could then sell the T-case or trade it for the one you want to use.
if you want an 80 series I got a line on a Lexus LX450 with Factory locking diffs and the pin7 mod done on the center diff lock for $6500. but you wouldn't get Diesel and good luck getting a manual trans to bolt to its T-case.
Beanmachine7000
11-23-2008, 11:10 PM
Ah, I see... ok... So the gear splitter goes in front of the tranny? I see, lol... now I understand... Ok, so FF front and FF rear on 80-series... I got that... about the T-case... the toyota t-case is full time 4wd with a CDL correct? Or could I use the NP 242 with it? I havent really researched toyota stuff that much, lol... yeah, before i bought the bronco there was a real nice 80 series for sale around town, but they wanted 8k for it and I was short a couple grand, so I got the BII and had extra money laying around...
i can get most any 4BT I like my uncle owns a heavy equipment company and he has tons of them just laying around, told me next time Im in Fla I can bring a rebuildable home :)
the 80 series T-case wont work for you. I have yet to find an adapter to allow bolting it to a 4bt friendly transmission, but yes it is full time with a CDL. if you remove the viscous coupler you can fit a part time 4wd kit in the T-case. I would stick with the GM T-case.
Beanmachine7000
11-23-2008, 11:28 PM
Cool... that sounds likea great plan... I'm glad i checked here first because with my plan I was almost certainly going to have to use a B3.3 so I could mount up an AX-15/NP242 combo... and in a 5k lb truck I wasn't sure the 100hp rating would work out too well... especially for the highway driving I planned... plus it's terriblyhard finding a B3.3 used... thanks alot man... I'll do some more research on Toyota axles and what not...
in all honesty, I would sell the B2 and get an Explorer, longer wheel base would be easier for your swap, even a 2door explorer is longer than the B2
Beanmachine7000
11-23-2008, 11:39 PM
It might end up that way... I just really like the BII so much more than the Explorer (I have a 'Ploder also that was going to donate an engine to the BII) if I end up going 4BT-splitter-4spd combo and it ends up being too long/creating crazy driveshaft angles I'll just build everything up into the Ex... drop the 4.0 in the Bronco and go that way... It just depends on what i end up deciding... I'm gonna try to make it work in the BII first.. just because I like it better, lol... thanks for your concern though...
HndMeDnBroncoII
11-23-2008, 11:54 PM
okay heres a thought if money is easy to come by wouldnt it be easier to build the frame to support whatever options and divetrain you use the refab the underside of the bII to fit on top maybe a custom box behind the back door
Roger
Beanmachine7000
11-24-2008, 12:04 AM
Money wouldn't be that easy to come by... Plus, I only get paid twice a year, December and May, I'll be able to drop probably 10k a year into it, and I'd really like to be able to get most parts in most major towns, even though it would be a major concoction, it will still be made of parts that are usually carried in most major areas... I don't want to have to fab all my replacement parts...
86ford
11-24-2008, 09:57 PM
running a oil burner in a b2 is a tough idea period. you would be better off with a EFI 302. as for the fj80 axles, they are tough, really tough but when you put them under a 6k or 7k rig that is a huge amount of weight. weight is a huge factor in choosing axles. a d44 front would hold up fine under a mild 6cyl running 40s if the vehicle weights 3k. now a similar vehicle with a moderate v8 and 5k weight and 40s would eat parts on a d44 but be OK with a d60. i have 2 friends on another forum who have the vehicles i described (close enough). the one with the moderate v8 is running a d60 for a reason. neither of them have serious trouble with broken parts and wheel there junk hard. a 4 liter or a 302 is all you really need to run a b2 off road. you can take this as far off the wall crazy as you want but eventually you will lose sight of the FUN at the end of the tunnel and scrap it.
86
running a oil burner in a b2 is a tough idea period. you would be better off with a EFI 302. as for the fj80 axles, they are tough, really tough but when you put them under a 6k or 7k rig that is a huge amount of weight. weight is a huge factor in choosing axles. a d44 front would hold up fine under a mild 6cyl running 40s if the vehicle weights 3k. now a similar vehicle with a moderate v8 and 5k weight and 40s would eat parts on a d44 but be OK with a d60. i have 2 friends on another forum who have the vehicles i described (close enough). the one with the moderate v8 is running a d60 for a reason. neither of them have serious trouble with broken parts and wheel there junk hard. a 4 liter or a 302 is all you really need to run a b2 off road. you can take this as far off the wall crazy as you want but eventually you will lose sight of the FUN at the end of the tunnel and scrap it.
86
FzJ80 axles are already under 6K - 7K rig by the time they are geared up (they weigh 5850 curb weight). plus full float rear and are stronger than the d44. Also have electric locking diffs that are 10x more reliable than ARB's. I know a guy running a winch front and back, roof rack with twin 35x12.50 in it, a tire carrier on the rear bumper that hold a pair of 35x12.50's, 10 gallons of gas, and a winch battery. the front bumber is an ARB bull bar that carries to winch batteries. with all his camping gear it tips the scales at 8600 pounds rolling on FzJ80 axles with 4.88's
I am pretty sure he wants the oil burner because of cruising range off road. you get out side the US and diesel is more common.
85_Ranger4x4
11-26-2008, 02:14 AM
FzJ80 axles are already under 6K - 7K rig by the time they are geared up (they weigh 5850 curb weight). plus full float rear and are stronger than the d44. Also have electric locking diffs that are 10x more reliable than ARB's. I know a guy running a winch front and back, roof rack with twin 35x12.50 in it, a tire carrier on the rear bumper that hold a pair of 35x12.50's, 10 gallons of gas, and a winch battery. the front bumber is an ARB bull bar that carries to winch batteries. with all his camping gear it tips the scales at 8600 pounds rolling on FzJ80 axles with 4.88's
I am pretty sure he wants the oil burner because of cruising range off road. you get out side the US and diesel is more common.
Does he really plan on leaving the country though? That is a lot of work just for the novelty of a diesel.
If he has an Explorer laying around for parts, the 4.0, M5OD, TTB D35, and 31 spline 8.8 will be a tough combo to beat. He already has 3/4 of those parts right now. Parts are stupid common to find, when I went to rebuild my 8.8 I got off of craigslist for $100, they had all the seals and gaskets in stock at the local Carquest.
Dunno when the last time was I saw a Land Cruiser around here on the street, let alone one being parted out...
Beanmachine7000
11-26-2008, 12:03 PM
Yes, I plan on taking this out of country in several years time, me and several colleagues are planning a South America trip in 2011... That's why I said diesel is a must... I don't plan on running anything near 40" tires, 35's would be the absolute biggest I would ever need, probably staying with 33's... This isn't going to be a rock crawler, more of an off-road transport, driving on bad roads, trails to camp-sites, and work areas, vehicle... I have an Explorer, but the BII is already stripped and ready for everything to go in... I don't really want to have to pull all the stuff out of the Explorer just to put it back in the Bronco... About the 80 series axles, I don't think they will work because the T-case I want to use is a driver side drop and the Toyota axles are passenger side drop... So far, what I've come up with so far... Cummins B3.3T - AX-15 - NP242 - Rear D60 Shortened - Front Axle??? By using a T-case with the option of full-time 4WD, would the front axle need CV type joints or do you think a regular u-joint would hold up?
Does he really plan on leaving the country though? That is a lot of work just for the novelty of a diesel.
If he has an Explorer laying around for parts, the 4.0, M5OD, TTB D35, and 31 spline 8.8 will be a tough combo to beat. He already has 3/4 of those parts right now. Parts are stupid common to find, when I went to rebuild my 8.8 I got off of craigslist for $100, they had all the seals and gaskets in stock at the local Carquest.
Dunno when the last time was I saw a Land Cruiser around here on the street, let alone one being parted out...
you need to check out IH8TMUD.com, look under classifieds. plenty of 80's being parted out.
Yes, I plan on taking this out of country in several years time, me and several colleagues are planning a South America trip in 2011... That's why I said diesel is a must... I don't plan on running anything near 40" tires, 35's would be the absolute biggest I would ever need, probably staying with 33's... This isn't going to be a rock crawler, more of an off-road transport, driving on bad roads, trails to camp-sites, and work areas, vehicle... I have an Explorer, but the BII is already stripped and ready for everything to go in... I don't really want to have to pull all the stuff out of the Explorer just to put it back in the Bronco... About the 80 series axles, I don't think they will work because the T-case I want to use is a driver side drop and the Toyota axles are passenger side drop... So far, what I've come up with so far... Cummins B3.3T - AX-15 - NP242 - Rear D60 Shortened - Front Axle??? By using a T-case with the option of full-time 4WD, would the front axle need CV type joints or do you think a regular u-joint would hold up?
I am not wild about that engine and tranny and Tcase combo. that transmission is rather weak and that awd feature in that t-case likes to burn its VC, the engine is rather weak and not very common. you need to think parts availability when in columbia. 4bt is more common.
Seriously I wouldn't use and AWD T-case, there is no advantage if you have switchable lockers and full time hubs. the FzJ 80 axles are designed to be run full time in 4wd, you would have to use a jeep axle (D30) with that T-case and it wount take the weight of the diesel. however parts for the 80 series axles are expensive, but common in south america, as common as D35/8.8 parts are here.
if you are doint this for a project I understand, but if you just want an expedition truck then how about looking into a diesel bzJ80 from Canada. those even have manual transmissions, electric lockers, full time 4wd with a CDL. you can get one well used for alot less than what you would have in powertrain on your B2 project.
Beanmachine7000
11-26-2008, 12:49 PM
I was worried about the 3.3, the availability of parts and whatnot, and the measly 98hp or whatever it has, but more worried about the weight of a 4BT and giant tranny that is needed to support it... about the BZJ80, I had considered it, but I thought they were not importable into the U.S.? If they are, that would probably be the way I would go... I thought a vehicle had to be what, 25 years old to import it?
there are a few around, I am not sure of the laws but my neighbor is from Canada and I will ask her how she brought her car with her.
the 4BT is heavy, but, if you use 80 series axles then the springs needed are readily available as a 4bt is a common swap into a 60 series, and 80 series axle swap is common into a 60 to get coil springs. so parts are not an issue, money is, and expedition vehicle is expensive.
you can get a tired Fj80 for around 4 grand, you can get the BzJ's engine and harness from Specter, or give a call to slee offroad or call cruiser dan. they do FzJ80 diesel swaps and have parts on hand. you get outside the US and BzJ80s are common so parts are common.
Beanmachine7000
11-30-2008, 08:56 PM
So, I've been doing lots of research, and what my best bet looks to be is to buy an FZJ80, with, hopefully, a blown engine (cheap) and a manual tranny, then swap in, either a 1HD-T or a 12HT... Build it up the way it needs to be and go that way... I think I may actually end up saving money that way... maybe $3k for a FZJ80, $12k for a 1HD-T, roof rack, RTT, selectable lockers, long range fuel tank etc... Including PM items, I could see a budget realistically of about $20k-$25k... But, that leaves me with what to do with the BII...
86ford
11-30-2008, 09:31 PM
FzJ80 axles are already under 6K - 7K rig by the time they are geared up (they weigh 5850 curb weight). plus full float rear and are stronger than the d44. Also have electric locking diffs that are 10x more reliable than ARB's. I know a guy running a winch front and back, roof rack with twin 35x12.50 in it, a tire carrier on the rear bumper that hold a pair of 35x12.50's, 10 gallons of gas, and a winch battery. the front bumber is an ARB bull bar that carries to winch batteries. with all his camping gear it tips the scales at 8600 pounds rolling on FzJ80 axles with 4.88's
I am pretty sure he wants the oil burner because of cruising range off road. you get out side the US and diesel is more common.
we are talking about 2 different things. on a wheeling rig fj80 axles can only withstand so much weight just like any other axle. 35s on fj80s is like 31s on a explorer, you just wont break anything. take the same 2 rigs, put some 40 inch boggers on the cruiser and 35 boggers on the explorer, watch the parts fly (if its actually seeing some tough wheeling conditions for those rigs). if both vehicles went on a diet they would be much less likely to break parts because less weight to send a shock load down the drivetrain to break things. a oil burners pure power (torque) will snap shit when left to the hands of a person who wants to test a vehicles limits.
86
Beanmachine7000
11-30-2008, 09:48 PM
I'm not planning on buildong anything to rockcrawl with. I'm just trying to build a rig to succesfully navigate washed out dirt roads, and some muddy pits, river crossings and just be an all out get there and make it back alive rig, being able to live out of it for a weekend or so... I've read a bit on IH8MUD and Expeditio Portal, and it look slike my BII just isn't going to work for what I want... I believe I'll have to go with an 80 series cruiser, swapping in a diesel engine will be cheaper and less hassle than trying to import one, plus I'll get a coil suspension, and the good power of the turbo diesel instead of the NA diesel... From what I've seen I have completely trust whatever axles are under the 80 series, I've seen 7-8k lb trucks on 33's go tons of places I never would have thought...
My plan now is FZJ-80, 1HD-T, H55... Built up for expedition use.... now I just have to decide what to do with my BII, more than likely I'll just swap in the Explorer stuff and give it a little lift, maybe 33's and DD it...
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