Crawler/flexible rear suspension options....

[zachis4wheeling]

So I'm gonna rip apart muh Ranger this weekend. Gettin started on puttin the tons under it. I'm thinkin out my options for the rearend. At first I wanted to inboard Chevy 63's or Toyota springs underneath the frame in the back instead of on the outside of the frame. From what I've seen on here from other dudes doin, Sasquatch Ryda, Woods-Rider, etc., it looks like it actually flexes well with this swap But I got thinkin about it, and since this is gonna be a crawler only, for off road use only, I think I got an idea that may work even better for more flex.

I plan on boxing the frame front to rear as it is, as well as ditchin the plastic fuel tank and settin up a fuel cell, so picture this and let me know if you think it would be worth my time;

-remove the stock springs and hanger/shackle assemblies,
-remove the stock fuel tank
-box the frame
-using the stock front hangers and rear shackle hangers, mount those the same way they are on the frame, just on the OTHER framerail on the boxed inner section you added, this way, makin a spot for yur new leaves. If my calcuations are correct, this should move the leaves in about as much as you probably can, while still not gettin in the way of the 14bolts pig I'm putting under there.

Now before anyone goes tellin me I shouldn't be drivin this prick on the road after I do this and blah blah blah, I don't plan on it, so rest assured. I am just trying to figure out a way to get some mad flex out of this thing in a way that normal joe blows can do that like myself, are on a tight budget.

I realize that there is gonna be some really big twistage of the springs happenin, but I think that if I put articulating leaf spring mounts/perches on the axle, that they might help.

Anyone have any comments on this?

[JohnnyU]

Just build a triangulated 4-link. :dntknw:

I bet you could do it for under $350. And if you think that's a lot of money, price a set of lift leaf springs....

[bobbywalter]

i would just weld up some cut 1/4 strap in under the rails, drill the bolt holes and call it done

[hitech_hick]

I would second the linking idea, a triangulated 4 link or a 3 link would be a good way to go. I have been kicking around the same ideas with my rig, with ton's and 40's on the brain. What kind of a wheel base are you shooting for? If you are looking to shorten the wheel base at all, using 63" chevys would put the front of the springs way up under the cab (at least I know they would on my super cab). Just a few more things to consider...


hick

[zachis4wheeling]

Just build a triangulated 4-link. :dntknw: I bet you could do it for under $350.


This is kinda what I had planned on doing from the beginning to be honest.

IDK, we'll see what happens. It's be nice to do since I already have a set of Chevy 63"rs layin around, along with another set of rear shackle hangers, that I figure I could mount up front, on the inside like I said above, then I wouldn't have to fawk around with the front hanger/rear cab mount interferance issue.

But I'm plannin on doublin my tcases and I've got a set of 44s that are gonna be mounted on 1 tons, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like that's a lot of stress, and greater of a chance for breakage with that big of a tire on an old rusty set of leaves.

And this is where a 4 link would be real nice.

Whenever I've thought of doing a triangulated 4 link, I've always planned on setting it up with a solid triangulated upper link made of .25" wall 2" O.D. square tubing, and 2 parallel .25" walled, 2" O.D. lowers. I figure I'd need 3 suspension joints, and 4 rubber bushings; (I'd prolly run EVO machining heims or Johnny Joints on the axle end, and rubber bushings on the frame)....

Yur right in sayin it prolly wouldn't be too much more expensive, especially when factoring in the price of a set of lifted leaves. It's just I've never done this, and am a little nervous on fawkin somethin up. It would be nice tho to be able to drive the fawker out on the road for short distances and whatnot.

IDK, keep the advice comin!

[JohnnyU]

Go to the library, read up on the internet, and use the 4-link (or the 3-link) calculator programs available on Pirate. I've seen suspensions turn out fairly well that have had little or no thought put into them. Putting any thought at all into their design will greatly improve the results. I would have no hesitations about driving a rig like that on the road.

Research and proper planning/design will ultimately be your ticket to success.

[zachis4wheeling]

What kind of a wheel base are you shooting for? If you are looking to shorten the wheel base at all, using 63" chevys would put the front of the springs way up under the cab (at least I know they would on my super cab). Just a few more things to consider...


hick

I'd like to end up in the 115ish zone. Stock, I think these pricks run around 125 (that's exto cab/short bed), and I want to move the front axle ahead a little to keep the meats out of the firewall and reduce the amount of the rear of the fenders I gotta chop up.

I actually would like to be able to run a double sided hi-steer arm on the passenger side and a single sided on the drivers side with the drivers side arm pointing towards the back of the trugg. Then I can tuck my steering system back there out of the way. It'll be interesting tho, keeping in mind that I gotta run the links for the front, along with the steering linkage, along with the driveshaft and keep everything from rubbin everything else.....Ya know? Kinda like in DP style porn how everything bumps everything else. That's what I definitley DON'T want.

[zachis4wheeling]

Go to the library, read up on the internet, and use the 4-link (or the 3-link) calculator programs available on Pirate. I've seen suspensions turn out fairly well that have had little or no thought put into them. Putting any thought at all into their design will greatly improve the results. I would have no hesitations about driving a rig like that on the road. Research and proper planning/design will ultimately be your ticket to success.

Yea, been fawkin around with the 4 link calculator and lookin at a lot of older books that my buddy had from when he went to Kettering University for automotive suspension design and engineering. It's like GMs big school that they pick up a lot of people out of. I even got a book that kinda shows monster truck setups and whatnot. I'm sure it'll turn out alright, but like I said, I'm just a lil nervous, as this'll be my first build where I 'll be buildin the suspension without any pre-determined referance points, etc.

And this is something that I've been looking into doing for a LOOOONG time now. Any of the people who have been on here for quite a while, remember that John Deere Ranger dude who used to be on here; well I been looking into doing this since then....(like 03ish)....so I'm sure it'll go fine. Still tho, it's still gonna be interesting.

[canyoncritter]

are you thinking about using a orbital bushing in the springs eyes like a baja bushing? like a uniball for leaf spring eyes...

http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0710or_jeep_wrangler_yj/photo_07.html

if you know the set of springs you want to run allready and have acess to one, I'd tack up a a few pices of plate and hang the spring hangers, and use the main leaf only out of the pack and flex the axle out as far as it would go or till the spring binds up from twisting and see if that's what you want.

you should only have to do the one side to mock it up.and if its a complte FAIL, you wouldnt be out much,but your time. as Im sure you could re sale the chevy springs for what you had in to them since those would proably come from the junk yards.

I know, shut the hell up, as asking on the net is easier lol......

inboard I would think would be less stable,giving you a higher active center of gravity I would think.

[zachis4wheeling]

This weekend coming up, I'll be pulling the Dana 35, TTB lift and all the other crap out from under the truck. I got a dude who wants to buy it all, and he needs it soon, so I gotta get rid of that.

Since I am plannin on movin the axle ahead quite a bit to keep the fohdy fows outta the body, I'm not sure how much cutting of the engine crossmember I'll have to do. We'll just have to see once I get it all mocked up. If I could get away without having to trim it at all, that'd be awesome, but I don't think I'll be that lucky. I'm prepared to rip the stock Xmember right out and fabricate up something made of round or sq. tube or something tight to the bottom of the engine, if need be. We'll just have to see.

The steering box will hopefully be able to be kept in the stock location. I figure, if I move the axle ahead like I said above, and keep the drag link where it is, using the high steer arm mounted backwards on the passenger side, this will help it work. Again, this will be shown during mock up.

I'd also like to be able to keep the hood of the truck at under 5' if at all possible. This is probably a pipedream tho as I'm sure if I want to link the frontend, the room for the links will require the truck to sit higher than that.

[bobbywalter]

if you are going the link route its gonna be a trial issue generally.


you can set it up and work perfect in the proper sense the first time, but not like off set charactoristics on a ceretian obstacal, or want to change up some other shit cause it caused issues some where else the first ride.


one thing i learned from running with guys in ky/cali/tn and those in my club is that you need to plan to replan.:taunt: when going this route. most guys just live with a setup like mentioned even if it has flaws.


with street use being the major need, and the need being immediate....i ended up with leafs.

for your intentions...and a tight budget... leafs are fine...


but based on intent only you really need to link this critter. i knew leafs all around would suck ass for my front heavy application but i was sick of dealing with the 8.8. with dumping 10 inches out of the back you will be in great shape no matter what. full hydro is something to consider too...not alot of room behind the axle with low applications without some frame mods depending on what link setup goes up front. you dont need a bling hibux setup for trail trash anyway. have/koz/cooters set ya up with arms and do one of the low buck ram setups.






on edit, you will need to build a new k member to stay at 5 foot. but you can do it easily with a 3 link....just wont have a ton of uptravel.

[zachis4wheeling]

you should only have to do the one side to mock it up.and if its a complte FAIL, you wouldnt be out much,but your time. as Im sure you could re sale the chevy springs for what you had in to them since those would proably come from the junk yards.

I know, shut the hell up, as asking on the net is easier lol......

inboard I would think would be less stable,giving you a higher active center of gravity I would think.

Yea, that's what I figure kinda......

I'm plannin on boxin the frame as it is. So I figure, if I want to try this out with stock hangers that can be found on any Ranger, it's really nothing more than drilling some holes and bolting it up once the frame boxing is done, which really won't take much time at all. So yea, if it were to fail, I could 4 link it.

And yes, I completely understand and realize about the higher COG and the greater body roll that comes from inboarding ur leaves and changin yur roll center. That's KIND of what I want tho since I want it TO roll and flex, just not to the unsafe point.

It's a fine line in reality, the one between runnin a hillbilly rigged super-inboarded leaf setup vs. a well researched, planned, designed and built 4 link, when talkin about which will flex better and whatnot.

It just seems tho that if you want to drive it on the road from time to time, that the 4 link would be a little smarter and safer, when coupled with the proper coil/shock combo.

[zachis4wheeling]

one thing i learned from running with guys in ky/cali/tn and those in my club is that you need to plan to replan.:taunt: when going this route. most guys just live with a setup like mentioned even if it has flaws.

with street use being the major need, and the need being immediate....i ended up with leafs.

for your intentions...and a tight budget... leafs are fine...


but based on intent only you really need to link this critter. i knew leafs all around would suck ass for my front heavy application but i was sick of dealing with the 8.8. with dumping 10 inches out of the back you will be in great shape no matter what. full hydro is something to consider too...not alot of room behind the axle with low applications without some frame mods depending on what link setup goes up front. you dont need a bling hibux setup for trail trash anyway. have/koz/cooters set ya up with arms and do one of the low buck ram setups.

I really been debating on throwin the axle as it is right now under the frontend. It's sportin a set of lifted 6" leaves from a f350 on it. Thinkin bout pullin em apart n trashin a couple leaves and puttin it back under there with 3 or 4 leaves, not 7 or 8 that are on it right now. Figure maybe it'll ride a little less like fawk if I do that. All I'd need to do is come up with some sort of front hanger and shackle setup to get the truck in the air, and figure out the steering.

What you running for yur steering? I have a 4" drp pitman arm on the Ranger now from the 6" susp. lift, along with the stock linkage that came off the F350s D60. Might be able to rig something up for turning it around the yard and whatnot.

I'd like to eventually end up with a hydro assist steering system and eventually have full drag&tierodless hydro. This way, all I'd have to worry about is hoses limiting how far I could move the axle ahead and not worry about the links for steering matchin up and whatnot. But thats on down the road.

Reason I say this is cuz' Im doin this all at the parents house. My Dad doesnt want me takin up garage space, so when I go back to Port Huron this weekend, I'll have the truck up on a 16' tandem axle flatbed on jakstands pullin the TTB off. This way, if I don't get the axle under there with the leafsprings I have so it is drivable at least temporarily.....I can still move it around the yard for the time being, which will most likely be the most likely thing that'll happen.

Should be interesting........

When I move back to Port Huron in a month tho, he told me he'd let me set it up in the barn for the winter and do it right then......he just needs it now, but is lettin me keep the Ranger on the trailer if need be for a month.

[wahlstrom1]

Why not mount the 63's explorer style, under the frame? Still inboardish, gives you more lift and pretty strong mounting points. I mounted my 63's in the traditional style, mounts forward so rear is in front hole etc, and my axle was too far set back. My extended shackles hang way back, and now I have killer droop....:headbang:

-andrew

[Dishtowel]

Why not mount the 63's explorer style, under the frame?

-andrew

THATS GENIUS!!! I'm 1-2 weeks away from swapping in a explorer 8.8. Perhaps I should be aiming bigger.... (Or, perhaps I should just burn on some SOA perches, if it works, it works!)

Good thought Andrew. If you do inboard leafs you could get your hands on some make some shackles like LoneRanger has and then build yourself a trackbar and you would get good flex!

[zachis4wheeling]

I have considered it, but if ya think about it, mounting them under the frame explo. style, will only give me around the same rear flex that a SOA explo. has...maybe a lil more since I'll be fullwidth. Plus, I'll still have shackles pokin out the backend ready to grab something or hang up on something....I'd like to try and avoid that if at all possible. IDK, I mean I know it could work that way, and since I will be runnin 44s, they wouldn't be as much of a departure angle killer as if the truck was on 31s, but it just seems like FWIW, you wouldn't get an awful lot of flex or lift the truck up enough on the ass end for the 44s to clear.

I'll be runnin the bed for a while, till I shorten the wheelbase and link it. Clearin the fenduhs will still be somewhat of a priority. I'm gonna cut em up and whatnot, but I still don't wana cut muh 44s to chit and ruin em......

[bobbywalter]

Originally Posted by wahlstrom1
Why not mount the 63's explorer style, under the frame?

-andrew







THATS GENIUS!!! I'm 1-2 weeks away from swapping in a explorer 8.8. Perhaps I should be aiming bigger.... (Or, perhaps I should just burn on some SOA perches, if it works, it works!)

Good thought Andrew. If you do inboard leafs you could get your hands on some make some shackles like LoneRanger has and then build yourself a trackbar and you would get good flex!



i would just weld up some cut 1/4 strap in under the rails, drill the bolt holes and call it done


what do you think i was talking about?

[bobbywalter]

I really been debating on throwin the axle as it is right now under the frontend. It's sportin a set of lifted 6" leaves from a f350 on it. Thinkin bout pullin em apart n trashin a couple leaves and puttin it back under there with 3 or 4 leaves, not 7 or 8 that are on it right now. Figure maybe it'll ride a little less like fawk if I do that. All I'd need to do is come up with some sort of front hanger and shackle setup to get the truck in the air, and figure out the steering.

What you running for yur steering? I have a 4" drp pitman arm on the Ranger now from the 6" susp. lift, along with the stock linkage that came off the F350s D60. Might be able to rig something up for turning it around the yard and whatnot.

I'd like to eventually end up with a hydro assist steering system and eventually have full drag&tierodless hydro. This way, all I'd have to worry about is hoses limiting how far I could move the axle ahead and not worry about the links for steering matchin up and whatnot. But thats on down the road.

Reason I say this is cuz' Im doin this all at the parents house. My Dad doesnt want me takin up garage space, so when I go back to Port Huron this weekend, I'll have the truck up on a 16' tandem axle flatbed on jakstands pullin the TTB off. This way, if I don't get the axle under there with the leafsprings I have so it is drivable at least temporarily.....I can still move it around the yard for the time being, which will most likely be the most likely thing that'll happen.

Should be interesting........

When I move back to Port Huron in a month tho, he told me he'd let me set it up in the barn for the winter and do it right then......he just needs it now, but is lettin me keep the Ranger on the trailer if need be for a month.


well if i take more then two minutes to respond it erases my shit...so call me dude..i could not be more pissed after all the time on the answers i tried to post.

313 402 5966.

[zachis4wheeling]

hahaha....that fawkin sucks.....that started happenin to me awhile back, so now, I always copy it so its saved if it boots me n erases muh shit....Ill give ya a call one of these days and chew year ear off with my questions...thanks

[patov6]

Go to the library, read up on the internet, and use the 4-link (or the 3-link) calculator programs available on Pirate. I've seen suspensions turn out fairly well that have had little or no thought put into them. Putting any thought at all into their design will greatly improve the results. I would have no hesitations about driving a rig like that on the road.

Research and proper planning/design will ultimately be your ticket to success.

Hi, I have a 3-link + panhard rear and the flex is great. Its a very good idea...

http://www.desmontados.cl/files/desm5_187.jpg

If you need pics, I can put them here.

regards

Pato

[metalmacguyver]

well if i take more then two minutes to respond it erases my shit...so call me dude..i could not be more pissed after all the time on the answers i tried to post.

313 402 5966.



I saved the number too. I am sure I will need to talk your ear off some time aswell.:D:icon_welder:

[Toreadorranger]

flex is over rated. Check out WhiteRhinos build on pirate. he had inboarded chevy's and had tons of flex.\

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e258/mikes1988pos/Image044.jpg

[rickcdewitt]

use sway bars with removeable links if you want stability at times

[zachis4wheeling]

flex is over rated. Check out WhiteRhinos build on pirate. he had inboarded chevy's and had tons of flex.

Yea, been followin that one pretty religiously. His setup looks like it works out awesome on the trail. Only thing he said is his isn't too hot on the road.

What I need to do is just get started and get a move on with this fawker. I'll be home in 2 weeks for good where my trucks at and maybe then, I can get some more stuff done on the truck. I still have to swap the manual trans. assembly in on it, buildup the doubler, and all of the suspension stuff...

Zach

[CopyKat]

I saved the number too. I am sure I will need to talk your ear off some time aswell.:D:icon_welder:

Me too. I give that number out to the Fat Chicks at the bar all the time.

:thefinger:

[zachis4wheeling]

Me too. I give that number out to the Fat Chicks at the bar all the time.

haha.....that made me laugh.....I used to do that a lot with an asshole buddy of mine's #...back in the days when I was 19 & 20, goin across the border to Sarnia to get shibbyfaced.....lol....

So you still got the stended' cab Ranger Joel?

[CopyKat]

So you still got the stended' cab Ranger Joel?


Nope. But it will be gracing my shop for the second time since I sold it.:dunno:

It's in a sad sad state right now. Needs some luvin is all. OK ALOT of livin'!