What is your thoughts?

[reno]

With new Hydrogen Technology coming out, who here feels that our 4 wheel drive days are just about over? The first few cars out are showing some power, but they run on electric motors at the wheels, no transmission, transfer case, rear end axle, front axle,driveshafts or hubs. I fear if our government does away with gasoline once the hydrogen vehicles are out, we will not have the primitive fuel for our earth destroying vehicles any more.

What do you think? Has anyone else given this any thought?

[koda6966]

It worries me..

[AllanD]

If the "second tier" alternative fuels come out soon enough,
particularly Butanol, which can be run in gasoline engines with
only minimal modifications then we have a chance.(Mostly you'll
need a "starter fuel" tank on the vehicle) though a compression
increase can't hurt...

If not we have to depend on newer vehicles we are basically screwed.

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[Wicked_Sludge]

you can power a rangers (or any vehicle for that matter) stock drivetrain with an electric motor....so whats to stop a guy from having a hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered 4x4 truck?

[mkpecor]

4x4s will never die. if shit gets that bad ill live my days in the mountains away from all the BS.

[KELLY88]

I say let all the city folk and pavement pounders get their hydrogen and let the rest of us who can't afford a new hydrogen car use gasoline. Maybe prices will go down.

[krugford]

Four traction motors on four wheels with custom computer controlled motor controllers. I don't think 4x4 will ever go anywhere, in the world inside my head, it's just gonna look a little different.

[85_Ranger4x4]

Personally I would be more afraid of losing power to a storm and not being able to charge the stupid thing to going anywhere. If gas was available I could fire up a generator, but with no gas and no power you are pretty much stuck.

Some really large construction equipment (large dump trucks at mines for example) uses an electric motor at each wheel and a diesel turning a generator.

I can't see a mandate to elimate the internal combution engine by next week coming anytime soon. To expect every lawn mower, car, truck, ship, train and ship to convert to be fully electric in the short term is expecting quite a bit.

Personally I think this new algea thing sounds very promising:

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20560

[AllanD]

Yewah imagine widespread power outages from a natural disaster.. and all the cars will only go 100 miles or so then stop...

there's a technical term to describe your situation if that
should happen... I'm trying to remember it...
AHHHH.... COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FUKT

I say again, storable liquid fuels are the only way.

any other way is simply slavery without permission to go
where you want when you want.

Really think electric cars are the answer? enjoy your Kool-Aid!

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[bobbywalter]

comedian.:thefinger:

[bobbywalter]

oh.....if i have to have a whatever comes to go wheeling....i will put that whatever it is in my rbv and go wheelin.:)

[Wicked_Sludge]

when did the conversation turn from hydrogen fuel cell's to plug-in electric?

fuel cell vehicles dont need to be recharged, they need to be refueled, same as your ICE vehicles.

[AllanD]

you can power a rangers (or any vehicle for that matter) stock drivetrain with an electric motor....so whats to stop a guy from having a hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered 4x4 truck?

The simple basic fact that to have any kind of range at all with a hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle you have to have a hydrogen tank of such proportions that you'd need a police escort to drive anywhere.


when did the conversation turn from hydrogen fuel cell's to plug-in electric?

fuel cell vehicles dont need to be recharged, they need to be refueled, same as your ICE vehicles.

You need refueling stations FREQUENTLY or you need a home hydrogen generator which is going to run on electricity.

Why? because Fuel cell powered vehicles have a
fuel capacity no greater than some riding mowers.

That doesn't seem like much, but it ammounts to slightly
more than triple the range of a simple electric.

I don't know about you but I like my wheeling to be more
than a 1/2hour jaunt around the vacant lot between the
Home Depot and the Walmart across the street from the
hydrogen fueling station

Fueling a vehicle with Dilithium crystals or antimater isn't
that much more "science fiction" than hydrogen is.

read, and weep.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/staff/robert_boyd/story/16179.html

"A hydrogen car is one of the least efficient, most expensive ways to reduce greenhouse gases," said Joseph Romm, a physicist who was in charge of renewable energy research in the Carter administration. "If you want to slow down global warming, you're not going to do it with a hydrogen car."
Asked when he thinks hydrogen cars will be broadly available, Romm, the hydrogen skeptic, replied: "Not in our lifetime, and very possibly never."

"Hydrogen is not going to make a huge dent in oil use by 2020," said Joan Ogden, an energy specialist at the University of California, Davis. "A 30- to 40-year time frame is more likely."


You may indulge in debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The fact is angels don't exsist and you'all don't have the foggiest clue
what a pin is, but you can argue about it until hell freezes.

FACT, gaseous fuels stored under pressure cannot store
a practical ammount of energy in a transport situation.
(Note: Propane is not "Gaseous" it is liquid under pressure
in a tank which is different)

Look alcohol reduces range by nearly half and people are upset about that imagine reducing range by half again?

People are used to 300-400 miles on a tankful of gasoline
suddenly dropping to 180miles per tank on E80 is a bitter
pill to swallow. carrying enough hydrogen (20 gallons) to
equal 5gallons of gas is only actually practical in a full size
truck without employing a cryogenic storage tank

Ahhh... I can picture the first recall for cars when several explode in parking lots from frosted evaporation vents in a shopping mall parking lots....

KABOOM!!!

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[Wicked_Sludge]

ahh, it sounded to me like he was worried about plugging the thing in in the event of a power outage.

but on a practicality note....what say you about all electric vehicles? hauling around near 1,000lbs for the equivilent of about 3 gallons of gas isnt all that practical, but there have been a few production electric vehicles over the years. granted its still safer than all that hydrogen...:D

[MAKG]

Teslas are shipping now.

Those guys seem to have done a rather nice (if far too pricey) job.

[krugford]

I'm not holding my breathe on the 100,000 mile thing with those, though we will see.

It's pricey because they start with a Lotus Elise. I want something more aerodynamic....and lighter.

Of course, if somebody just happened to drop one off one day, I wouldn't argue.

[hiwy101]

Anything new and cutting edge with be expensive and have problems. The reality is that Oil isnt going to last forever. But no one seems to agree on when that is. It would be wise as a society to look into alternatives. They will not just end the internal combustion engine. The Environmental extremeists talk alot of BS to get the Hype moving. In reality, like anything else many different alternatives will arise but will not be fully adopted at first or forced onto us. That wouldnt make alot of sense.

Onto 4X4ing and trucks. To 4X4 on a weekend will continue as long as gas is avaliable. its just how much do you want to pay for it? The money is what makes the difference. I am sadly going to be riding a scooter and driving economy car for commuting and trips. The reason? where I live in California gas is $4.50 Avg/gal. This costs me $90 every 4-6 days if i do my normal driving with my ranger. That is just too much for me to afford. The only option is to treat the rangers and explorers of the world as weekend fun vehicles. Anything above a 2.5 4 cylinder these days will clean your wallet out. Its sad but true. China is not helping the matter by going to all cars from bikes and scooters. I don't see that gas will ever return to being affordable for a 4.0 V6.

As many people said earlier in the Post "were Screwed" only if we use trucks as cars and daily drivers. They require alot of energy "Fuel" to propel them. Good Luck to you all, i miss driving the ranger as much as the rest of you still enjoy it. But Times change and we have to change to a degree with them.

The Likely Short term Result will be smaller versions of what we are used to. The ranger is discontinued anyway. The Explorer will probably follow with slumping sales. its just the way it is. the partys over guys.

[James Denton]

4X4 ARE HERETO STAY--------They not going anywhere.They just going to get better----better:icon_thumby: