ahh, so confused (emission control problems)

[kunar]

well about a week ago i had my battery disconnected to replace a cable terminal and since then it has idled rough (always does for 200 miles or so after the computer looses power) but its been long enough it shouldnt be idling that rough anymore. it has also started to run really rich and lacking power since then. fuel mileage dropped from about 17 to about 14. checked codes and got 18 and 33 from memory, 12, 33, 13, 73 while running which are as follows:

12 cannot control rpm during self test high rpm
13 same as above, low rpm
18 erratic idm input to processor/spout circuit grounded
33 egr not opening
73 dynamic response test failed

egr has never worked and i've never had problems with it, and the goose test failed was my fault so its gotta be ignition related, i checked my tfi module with an ohm meter and it passed, so i cleaned it and regreased it, checked my timing and it was fine, checked for spark on all 6 cylinders, checked fine. checked for obvious frayed or chaffed wires and even replaced the computer with no luck. anybody have any suggestions? seems like its gotta be something to do with the code 18. tomorrow i will check codes from the othre computer and will likely replace the upper intake and all sensors unless anybody has suggestions (i've already got the parts)

[kunar]

anybody? sorta afraid even if i do replace the upper intake and all sensors, its not gonna solve the problem but its my next guess. atleast it might fix the egr problem

[2manyfords]

Check all of the grounds.
Make sure you have all of them hooked up.
There are three that go to the battery terminal, the main engine ground, the ECU and the body.

[kunar]

i have checked those grounds, they are all good. i pulled the upper intake and things were moist with gasoline, and it smelled really strong. i replaced the upper intake and started it again, it seems to idle good now but still seems rich. backfires, smells like gas, lacks power. i was thinking maybe fuel pressure regulator but i have heard if it's bad it will leak gas from the vac line and i didnt see any. i dont have a fuel pressure gauge at the moment or i would have checked fuel pressure by now. anybody else have suggestions, i am open...

[Richard]

oxygen sensor ?

[kunar]

thought about the o2 sensor but its only about a year old and i didnt get a code for it. i guess i will change it tomorrow since i have a couple good (used) ones i can toss in there to rule it out. after i did the intake i reset the computer. after 20-25 miles of driving i pulled codes and got all the same. also filled my tank after 130 miles and my mileage has dropped to less than 13. i still am stuck on that code 18, what could be the problem? the spout works, advance works like it should and ignition is timed right, how do i check the IDM part of that code? (erratic Ignition Diagnostic Module signal to processor) and could this make it act like it's running rich?

[derekj]

Have you removed the distributor and checked for play in the shaft? When it is out also watch the camshaft if you can and get somebody to turn the crank gently to see if your timing chain is loose. Sounds like it is definatly a ignition problem either computer controlled or mechanical.

Derek

[kunar]

Have you removed the distributor and checked for play in the shaft? When it is out also watch the camshaft if you can and get somebody to turn the crank gently to see if your timing chain is loose. Sounds like it is definatly a ignition problem either computer controlled or mechanical.

Derek

timing set is only about 6 or 8k miles old, i just did it a few months ago. i guess tomorrow i will at least pull the distributor cap and see what i can see. how do you get the distributor out on these trucks, is there room? im sure the upper intake will have to come off but will it clear the firewall? i have a couple old distributors, i can swap one of them in if i find a problem. i did a fuel pressure regulator today and it didnt help, i also replaced the tfi module and computer and checked the grounds on the terminal i replaced, all with no luck.

[Psychopete]

i replaced the upper intake and started it again, it seems to idle good now but still seems rich. backfires, smells like gas, lacks power.

Did you re-use the old gaskets? Check for vacuum leaks around the lower/upper intake...

how do you get the distributor out on these trucks, is there room? im sure the upper intake will have to come off but will it clear the firewall?

It's tough, 13mm bolt holding it in on the passenger side. I usually use an open end wrench. It's pulls up just enough to just get by. The hard part is getting it back in.

Pete

[kunar]

i dont think its got a vacuum leak, i did in fact reuse the gaskets but they were whole and in one piece so i used a little rtv for now, i can go back and do it right when i have the time and the money but for now i think it's fine. i will have to borrow a timing light but i think i will replace the distributor, thats about all thats left....

[Psychopete]

i dont think its got a vacuum leak, i did in fact reuse the gaskets but they were whole and in one piece so i used a little rtv for now, i can go back and do it right when i have the time and the money but for now i think it's fine. i will have to borrow a timing light but i think i will replace the distributor, thats about all thats left....

It's better to know, than to think, or else you'll be running around in circles and making assumptions. All it takes is to spray a little carb cleaner around the base of the upper intake runners... You new symptoms after replacing the upper intake manifold while re-using the old gasket just sound like a vacuum leak. I am not saying that it is (it's not in front of me), but it's simple enough not to just disregard it.

Good luck,
Pete

[kunar]

It's better to know, than to think, or else you'll be running around in circles and making assumptions. All it takes is to spray a little carb cleaner around the base of the upper intake runners... You new symptoms after replacing the upper intake manifold while re-using the old gasket just sound like a vacuum leak. I am not saying that it is (it's not in front of me), but it's simple enough not to just disregard it.

Good luck,
Pete

you are right, it is a simple check and i will check to know for sure but it's not a new probelm since the change. i switched intakes to switch iac valve and tps and tb, etc, etc in an effort to fix this probelm...an old problem that was present with the original intake. i pulled a vacuum cap and it actually runs better with a little unregulated air entering the intake.

[baddis]

as stupid as this sounds i was reading another board the other day and it sounds like the same problem and a ford engineer said something about corosion in the fuel rail as the culprit i will see if i can find a link later but right now i am getting a dns lookup error trying to get on there.

[baddis]

how about a coolant temp sensor? and here is the post i was talking about I have an '87 Ranger 2.9. Have exact same problem. Started literally overnight. I can be going down the road at 70 and it will load up and slow me down to 30-35 in a heart beat. Can start out from light and it will buck and stall at times. I can't tell you the number of times people have asked me, "What kind of diesel do you have in that thing?" Had every sensor replaced at one time or another - some twice. Had it to garages - twice to Ford and one had to fix what they screwed up because they made it worse. I have talked to many people who have experienced the same problem and simply gave up and got rid of the vehicle - one owned a Mazda pickup and worked as a CSR for Ford Motor Company. Every one had the same thing in common - the Ford 2.9 engine. And, no dealer could figure out what the problem was.

I spoke to a person who works with Ford's rebuilding division and without skipping a beat he said that the problem was not an uncommon one. He said that the inside of the fuel rail corroded and the material would cause the injectors to hang open. He said that replacing the rail and injectors should cure the problem. The fly in the ointment is that the fuel rail is no longer available, from what I can find and I work for NAPA. I've checked with several dealers and suppliers. Jegs wanted to sell me a 302 conversion.

Hope this helps.

[kunar]

i still have not made any progress. i took off the distributor cap and things seem fine, not much play. checked engine vacuum, cat temp and exhaust backpressure thinking it may have been a plugged cat but it all checked out fine. i replaced the o2 sensor with no luck, replaced the fuel regulator and checked fuel pressure but have not found a problem. tomorrow i am replacing the distributor and injectors and fuel rail.

[kunar]

i fixed it, im pretty sure it was fuel injectors. it still doesnt run quite right but i think its just a hair out of time still and i will have to tweak it a little bit

[john5482]

Don't worry about code 73. Codes 12 and 13 have to due with several sensors. First put everything back together and make sure nothing is loose. Code 33 I'm not sure about, my model does not have a EGR valve that I know of. Remove the negative battery cable and wait 30 seconds, to clear all computer faults. Then reconnect battery cable. Rerun the key-on engine-off self test to verify the error codes. DO NOT run the engine or crank it at this time. Any codes that that show up now will be caused by sensor malfunctions. Ignition module can be simple tested, but if you have not already done so-replace it. Test or replace the coil. In the schmatics, circuits tend to be tied together by splices. Because of that, one problem in a circuit can cause a false problem in another. The next steps to figure this out will take electrical experence and lots of time. After going through checking for error codes and check ALL sensors, even the IAC and ECT. Replace them all if need be. If the problem is still there, we'll have to dig a lot deeper, ready? Disconnect the negitive battery. Disconnect the computer module connector and check all pins on both the connector and the computer module. Clean off any grease found and make sure none of the pins can push out of the connector housing. The computer module has soldered pins. You can apply a light coat of clear electrolic grease on those pins to improve the connections. With the computer disconnected, also disconect the TFI connector. Use a ohm meter to check for open circuits between both connectors and check the SPOUT connector. The pins are #55, 36, 16, 20. If these are all closed circuits, plug the connectors back in and make sure no pins have poped out. I can't go through all the tests here, it took me a whole weekend to run through all the tests, when I found the problem with mine. I had to replace several wires and I got rid of that large cheap connector. If you can get small terminals that can tightly fit around the pins on the EEC-IV module, get some electrical wire and connect the ends between both connectors using those terminals making sure you don't mix up the wires. Even though there are 60 pins to deal with, the computer only uses about half of them. The others are not listed in my book. The wires can help you in trouble-shooting. On the passenger side near the fender under the hood, there should be a large fuse box. Under the fuse box is another box that contains three relays. If you have such a device, you will need access to those relays, some Ranger models do not have a power disribution box. One relay is green, one is gray, one is black. The green one is for fuel, black is power to the EEC-IV, gray is the air condtioner which also goes to the fuel injectors. Check to make sure those relays are working and there is power going through when active. Check the condition of the engine too, make sure your compression is good, oil pressure is good. Also look for any wire bundles going around the exhaust pipes. The PVC electrical wire used is sensitive to heat and can easily melt causing shorts. A TFI problem is mostly due to a short somewhere in the electrical system. Can be anywhere, you will need to remove fuses one at a time and disconnect any systems not related to the TFI system. Take a close look at the wire bundle on the driver side that goes from the fender connectors down the side to the transmission neutral switch, solenoids. If any of those wires have damaged insulation, it could cause lots of engine problems. If these become shorted, the convertor will lock up causing a lack of power and making the engine work a lot harder against the convertor causing the flex plate to break, and blow the head gaskets. That bundle also has live 12v power feeds in it. Your next step will be to get a electrical book that shows the computer TFI wiring. The OEM factory books are the only ones I know of that have all the trouble-shooting proceedures in it. Good Luck.

[baddis]

so how is it running?

[kunar]

so how is it running?

uhh, like junk. it was great for about 150 miles then it started to nosedive again. john5482 has made me think a little more, i will look into some of his tests, though i have already done some of them. on my other thread here (http://therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2563) it was suggested to rule out water in the tank with a bottle of heet, i never really thought of this and will try it tomorrow for sure. i have been using stp's fuel treatment (red bottle) quite a bit lately with no results but its not really made for water in the tank, heet is. i replaced my fuel filter but i noticed that there is 2 filters on my truck. ones inline, in front of the fuel pump and one is a canister type just behind the fuel pump. pretty sure this is a result of the whole carb to fuel injection switch but i need to know, is there even a filter element inside that canister? is it worth putting one in if theres not one already? i wanted to last weekend but it was about midnight when i finished it up and havent had a chance to work on it too much since. oh and i still need tto pull codes again, to see if there was any change

[kunar]

okay, now im pissed. it left me stranded on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere today. after about an hour my dad helped my push start it (battery died from trying to crank it after it died) and it ran...sorta...i had 2 vacuum plugs out just to keep it running, and had the timing advanced as far as i could. i limped it home, shut it off and replaced the cap and rotor (figured i would rule it out, they werent that great looking but only about 1 year old) it started and ran a little, i killed it trying to plug a vacuum line back up, and it wouldnt start again. it smells like gas really strong just trying to crank it over and my last 70 miles took 7 gals of gas (10 mpg) so someting is extremely rich from what i can tell, i am getting ready to part it out to get the other truck done...

[john5482]

Don't give up. You think you have it bad? Try dealing with my Ranger a year ago (it took me a year to fix mine due to lack of time). It had all sorts of problems, I never gave up. I looked at the many problems, did lots of research. Tried lots of things I could think of, some worked, some did not. The most important thing I gained was experience and knowledge. It's rewarding after going through factory books and looking at engineering drawings coming up with a game plan and acting on it turning the key and listening to an engine that sounds and feels better then most newer car engines. Some advice: When pissed off - Take a break from the project for a couple of days. When ready, post a recap of the issues. What are the events that lead up to the truck dying this time? Try this web site for possible solutions, they charge a small annual fee to use their on-line books: http://www.alldatadiy.com (Ebay may also have hard copies available)

The on-line books should have enough information you need to trouble-shoot, find root cause and repair the problems. There are a lot of test procedures covering everything. These books are on-line versions used by ASE personnel at Factory Authorized Service Centers. There is also a free demo to try before you buy.

[kunar]

Don't give up. You think you have it bad? Try dealing with my Ranger a year ago (it took me a year to fix mine due to lack of time). It had all sorts of problems, I never gave up. I looked at the many problems, did lots of research. Tried lots of things I could think of, some worked, some did not. The most important thing I gained was experience and knowledge. It's rewarding after going through factory books and looking at engineering drawings coming up with a game plan and acting on it turning the key and listening to an engine that sounds and feels better then most newer car engines. Some advice: When pissed off - Take a break from the project for a couple of days. When ready, post a recap of the issues. What are the events that lead up to the truck dying this time? Try this web site for possible solutions, they charge a small annual fee to use their on-line books: http://www.alldatadiy.com (Ebay may also have hard copies available)

The on-line books should have enough information you need to trouble-shoot, find root cause and repair the problems. There are a lot of test procedures covering everything. These books are on-line versions used by ASE personnel at Factory Authorized Service Centers. There is also a free demo to try before you buy.

i appreciate the encouragement, i'm not gonna give up that easy but my money is all gone for a couple weeks and all my time is going into the other truck so i can get to work on monday.

from what i can tell it is just way way too rich and i dont know why. it started almost a month ago, loosing power and idling rough, backfiring when i coast. i started buy checking timing, fuel pressure, replaced entire upper intake with all sensors, fuel pressure regulator, computer etc etc. nothing worked till i replaced all 6 injectors and distributor. i drove it for about 150 miles and it was fine, then it started to crap out again. this time it was a lot quicker and eventually got to the point i couldnt even go 50 mph in 3rd gear, continuously getting worse as i drove. from there it only took a couple miles till it couldnt even keep its self moving. i pulled off, shut it down, let it cool off for maybe 30-45 mins, tried to restart it and it wouldnt do more than a sputter. it smells really strong like fuel even after cranking it for a few seconds. i advanced my timing quite a bit and got it to start, it ran better after i unplugged a couple vacuum caps. i got maybe 1/2 mile and it shut down. did that 2 or 3 times. after that i left my truck for almost an hour, came back and the battery was dead, my dad pulled me with a tow strap and i popped the clutch and it idled for maybe 5 mins before we stopped and unhooked the tow strap. from there i drove home (10 miles or so) and parked it and now it wont start. go figure...

starting to think maybe a 4.0 swap is in order...or part it/sell it as is. i had planned on selling it as soon as the other truck is done but i wasnt quite to that point yet. i really want to fix it so i can sell it and actually make some cash.