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ahh, so confused (emission control problems)


kunar

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well about a week ago i had my battery disconnected to replace a cable terminal and since then it has idled rough (always does for 200 miles or so after the computer looses power) but its been long enough it shouldnt be idling that rough anymore. it has also started to run really rich and lacking power since then. fuel mileage dropped from about 17 to about 14. checked codes and got 18 and 33 from memory, 12, 33, 13, 73 while running which are as follows:

12 cannot control rpm during self test high rpm
13 same as above, low rpm
18 erratic idm input to processor/spout circuit grounded
33 egr not opening
73 dynamic response test failed

egr has never worked and i've never had problems with it, and the goose test failed was my fault so its gotta be ignition related, i checked my tfi module with an ohm meter and it passed, so i cleaned it and regreased it, checked my timing and it was fine, checked for spark on all 6 cylinders, checked fine. checked for obvious frayed or chaffed wires and even replaced the computer with no luck. anybody have any suggestions? seems like its gotta be something to do with the code 18. tomorrow i will check codes from the othre computer and will likely replace the upper intake and all sensors unless anybody has suggestions (i've already got the parts)
 


kunar

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anybody? sorta afraid even if i do replace the upper intake and all sensors, its not gonna solve the problem but its my next guess. atleast it might fix the egr problem
 

2manyfords

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Check all of the grounds.
Make sure you have all of them hooked up.
There are three that go to the battery terminal, the main engine ground, the ECU and the body.
 

kunar

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i have checked those grounds, they are all good. i pulled the upper intake and things were moist with gasoline, and it smelled really strong. i replaced the upper intake and started it again, it seems to idle good now but still seems rich. backfires, smells like gas, lacks power. i was thinking maybe fuel pressure regulator but i have heard if it's bad it will leak gas from the vac line and i didnt see any. i dont have a fuel pressure gauge at the moment or i would have checked fuel pressure by now. anybody else have suggestions, i am open...
 

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oxygen sensor ?
 

kunar

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thought about the o2 sensor but its only about a year old and i didnt get a code for it. i guess i will change it tomorrow since i have a couple good (used) ones i can toss in there to rule it out. after i did the intake i reset the computer. after 20-25 miles of driving i pulled codes and got all the same. also filled my tank after 130 miles and my mileage has dropped to less than 13. i still am stuck on that code 18, what could be the problem? the spout works, advance works like it should and ignition is timed right, how do i check the IDM part of that code? (erratic Ignition Diagnostic Module signal to processor) and could this make it act like it's running rich?
 

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Have you removed the distributor and checked for play in the shaft? When it is out also watch the camshaft if you can and get somebody to turn the crank gently to see if your timing chain is loose. Sounds like it is definatly a ignition problem either computer controlled or mechanical.

Derek
 

kunar

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Have you removed the distributor and checked for play in the shaft? When it is out also watch the camshaft if you can and get somebody to turn the crank gently to see if your timing chain is loose. Sounds like it is definatly a ignition problem either computer controlled or mechanical.

Derek
timing set is only about 6 or 8k miles old, i just did it a few months ago. i guess tomorrow i will at least pull the distributor cap and see what i can see. how do you get the distributor out on these trucks, is there room? im sure the upper intake will have to come off but will it clear the firewall? i have a couple old distributors, i can swap one of them in if i find a problem. i did a fuel pressure regulator today and it didnt help, i also replaced the tfi module and computer and checked the grounds on the terminal i replaced, all with no luck.
 

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i replaced the upper intake and started it again, it seems to idle good now but still seems rich. backfires, smells like gas, lacks power.
Did you re-use the old gaskets? Check for vacuum leaks around the lower/upper intake...

how do you get the distributor out on these trucks, is there room? im sure the upper intake will have to come off but will it clear the firewall?
It's tough, 13mm bolt holding it in on the passenger side. I usually use an open end wrench. It's pulls up just enough to just get by. The hard part is getting it back in.

Pete
 
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kunar

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i dont think its got a vacuum leak, i did in fact reuse the gaskets but they were whole and in one piece so i used a little rtv for now, i can go back and do it right when i have the time and the money but for now i think it's fine. i will have to borrow a timing light but i think i will replace the distributor, thats about all thats left....
 

Psychopete

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i dont think its got a vacuum leak, i did in fact reuse the gaskets but they were whole and in one piece so i used a little rtv for now, i can go back and do it right when i have the time and the money but for now i think it's fine. i will have to borrow a timing light but i think i will replace the distributor, thats about all thats left....
It's better to know, than to think, or else you'll be running around in circles and making assumptions. All it takes is to spray a little carb cleaner around the base of the upper intake runners... You new symptoms after replacing the upper intake manifold while re-using the old gasket just sound like a vacuum leak. I am not saying that it is (it's not in front of me), but it's simple enough not to just disregard it.

Good luck,
Pete
 

kunar

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It's better to know, than to think, or else you'll be running around in circles and making assumptions. All it takes is to spray a little carb cleaner around the base of the upper intake runners... You new symptoms after replacing the upper intake manifold while re-using the old gasket just sound like a vacuum leak. I am not saying that it is (it's not in front of me), but it's simple enough not to just disregard it.

Good luck,
Pete
you are right, it is a simple check and i will check to know for sure but it's not a new probelm since the change. i switched intakes to switch iac valve and tps and tb, etc, etc in an effort to fix this probelm...an old problem that was present with the original intake. i pulled a vacuum cap and it actually runs better with a little unregulated air entering the intake.
 

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as stupid as this sounds i was reading another board the other day and it sounds like the same problem and a ford engineer said something about corosion in the fuel rail as the culprit i will see if i can find a link later but right now i am getting a dns lookup error trying to get on there.
 

baddis

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how about a coolant temp sensor? and here is the post i was talking about
I have an '87 Ranger 2.9. Have exact same problem. Started literally overnight. I can be going down the road at 70 and it will load up and slow me down to 30-35 in a heart beat. Can start out from light and it will buck and stall at times. I can't tell you the number of times people have asked me, "What kind of diesel do you have in that thing?" Had every sensor replaced at one time or another - some twice. Had it to garages - twice to Ford and one had to fix what they screwed up because they made it worse. I have talked to many people who have experienced the same problem and simply gave up and got rid of the vehicle - one owned a Mazda pickup and worked as a CSR for Ford Motor Company. Every one had the same thing in common - the Ford 2.9 engine. And, no dealer could figure out what the problem was.

I spoke to a person who works with Ford's rebuilding division and without skipping a beat he said that the problem was not an uncommon one. He said that the inside of the fuel rail corroded and the material would cause the injectors to hang open. He said that replacing the rail and injectors should cure the problem. The fly in the ointment is that the fuel rail is no longer available, from what I can find and I work for NAPA. I've checked with several dealers and suppliers. Jegs wanted to sell me a 302 conversion.

Hope this helps.
 

kunar

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i still have not made any progress. i took off the distributor cap and things seem fine, not much play. checked engine vacuum, cat temp and exhaust backpressure thinking it may have been a plugged cat but it all checked out fine. i replaced the o2 sensor with no luck, replaced the fuel regulator and checked fuel pressure but have not found a problem. tomorrow i am replacing the distributor and injectors and fuel rail.
 

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