I need chassis dimensions 1987 Ranger

[dwinmac]

I'm new to this forum so I hope I'm posting to the right place. I am in the process of putting an electric motor in a 1987 2 wheel drive Ranger. The kit that I am using calls for installing battery racks under the bed in between the frame members. The kit seems to focus mainly on Chevy S10 and the battery racks fit in between the frame members nicely. I don't know whether the Ranger frame members are closer together or the fact that the drive shaft is on an angle to the passenger side of the vehicle but it is causing a real problem trying to fit the Trojan T-145 batteries in between the frame members. (There's 20 batteries by the way)
My question is: Is there documentation available showing the dimensions of the chassis of the 1987 Ford Ranger (i.e the distance between the frame members and the distance between the frame and the drive shaft and also the location of the cross members.
It really irks me that the S10 may be able to do something that the Ranger can't.

[TRUNK_MONKEY]

check with your local bodyshop that has electronic measuring.they can easily provide a very detailed printout for you.

[EVconverter]

I see that you joined a few days ago, taking on the same project as I, and you are asking the same question that I just posted, only we have a 94 Ranger... So if I find the measurements (drawing) elsewhere I'll be sure to let you know...

[RobbieD]

One of the Ford publications for every model year is the "Body Builder" book. Although these seem to be one of the harder factory manuals to find, it would be exactly what you guys are looking for- line drawings of the chassis, with dimensions. The body shop suggestion also sounds worth looking in to. Good luck to both of you; these sound like interesting projects.

[dwinmac]

I see that you joined a few days ago, taking on the same project as I, and you are asking the same question that I just posted, only we have a 94 Ranger... So if I find the measurements (drawing) elsewhere I'll be sure to let you know...

Thanks EVconverter. With a quick search of the internet I did find the following web site https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/bodybuild.html
which has the body builder info that RobbieD indicated. I have not found the info for a 1987 yet.
I'm in the process of building a model battery box for four Trojan T-145 batteries out of cardboard. We have the bed off the truck and I will be seeing how it fits. Definitely cannot use 1" thick polystyrene foam insulation around the batteries. I'm hoping we can get by with 1/4 inch foam insulation if it's available for purchase and a box made of 1/4 inch plywood.
Keep me updated on your project and I'll dothe same with you. My name is Doug and email is macdonalddw@usa.net. I don't get emails with replies to my posts here on the forum. Perhaps my preferences aren't set up correctly.

[JoshT]

For the E-mails you've suscribe to the post. I'm not sure if you can do it when posting a reply, but if you look under thread tools at the top of the thread you can subscribe there.

As for the motor, why would you go electric when you can go V8?

Just kidding it's your truck, and you are free to experiment with it as much as you wish (so ong as it isn't a rare version). Good luck with your project!

[dwinmac]

Hi JoshT,
That '84 long bed sure would be a nice candidate for 144 volt electric motor. The long bed supposedly provides enough room to add four more batteries for a total of 24.:-) However, it is uncertain right now whether there is room to put the batteries under the bed at all (even 20 for the 120 volt system). That off center drive shaft on the Ranger is a real problem for us electric motor enthusiasts. I also have a 1998 extended cab Ranger with 115,000 miles and still going strong with its internal combustion engine.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Eh, 115000 is nothing. Mine has 240,000 and is still reliable as gravity. Gets 25-30 MPG. Good enough for me!!

Good luck with the EV conversion. Sounds like a fun project with a real purpose.

[dwinmac]

It really is amazing how long these engines last if you take care of them. That kind of gas mileage is pretty good as well. The best I have gotten on the highway is 26 mpg. I think I must have had a tailwind because it averages more around 25mpg. Around town it's more like 19 mpg. It looks like you keep pretty busy with your Ranger projects. Good luck with it.

[MAKG]

I'm not familiar with this kit (but I'm curious).

But since this is a 2WD, can the motor be mounted further back? Cutting a driveshaft is cheap. Then, perhaps you can put the batteries in front of the motor. Perhaps even mounted vertically behind the now-unnecessary radiator (though that may not affect handling nicely).

Just a thought. An electric motor doesn't really need to be nearly as tall as a V6. And batteries don't necessarily need to be between the frame rails. Though it's a bit ugly, perhaps another alternative is to mount two boxes to the outsides of the frames.

Maybe there are better battery packs available? The one I saw for the Volt test-driven around here wasn't large at all.

[krugford]

I am curious about the setup you're going to be using. Will you be using the entire drivetrain minus IC engine or are you going with more of a direct drive set-up? You could save a lot of drag by eliminating power transfer points from the driveline. What kind of amp hour rating do you think you'll get drawing the current required to drive down the road? Is this for around town or short highway trips? Any other weight saving/drag reducing plans for the future? Those batteries are gonna weigh around 1500 lbs plus inter-connects and packaging. Any battery protection system in mind?

Sounds like fun. Keep up the good work!

-krug

Also, If you really want a top of the line pack, I would recommend lithium ion - lighter, more energy dense, more efficient, kills you if you make a mistake, etc. I believe the Tesla roadster uses around 5000 18-650 cells. Should be able to buy the bare cells for around 25 grand or so....

Keep us posted on you're progress!

[dwinmac]

The electric motor is about 16 inches long and about 9 inches in diameter. The input voltage is 120 volts (hence 20 six volt deep cycle batteries - you're pretty close on the weight and a good reason to get them as low as possible on the vehicle). The design is called clutchless but it really is clutch pedal less. We remove the clutch assy and send it to the machine shop where, in essence, they bolt it "always engaged". The electric motor uses the same motor mounts as the ICE and with an adaptor connects to the same clutch assy. The controller is good to 400 amps. I'm guessing, at 65 or 70 mph it would probably approach that figure. More casual driving is more like 200 amps. Drive in second gear around town, shift into 3rd gear on the highway. This is primarily for driving around town. The range is roughly 80 miles between charges. Weight and drag reduction is a primary concern. I would like to enclose the bottom as much as possible and fender skirts, although tacky looking, would save considerable drag. But, believe it or not about 1/2 of the drag on a pickup is at the back of the vehicle. I would love to come up with something to overcome that. Do you have any ideas? Check out EVAmerica.com

[dwinmac]

MAKG, The electric motor is much smaller than the ICE however it does weigh a hefty 150 lbs. Cutting the drive shaft is probably a lot more than most people are willing to try although I will keep that in mind if I decide to do another. :-) The batteries do have to be somewhat protected. I'm not sure what it would be like having them on the outside of the frame. The current design calls for 16 batteries under the bed and 4 where the radiator was. The engine compartment has all the electical equipment required to control the motor SAFELY. Safety is a primary command. You don't want to be standing in front leaning over the engine and mistakenly put 120 volts across the motor terminals with the transmission in gear. Maintaining these things will be a whole new adventure for mechanics.

[krugford]

Try this link. It's an 8 meg file, so it takes a little bit to load. It listed by someone on the old forum which is currently not available. So here it is.

http://ecow.engr.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/getbig/me/363/ghandhi1/pickup.pdf

[dwinmac]

krugford, Very interesting article just skimming through it. Another instance of things not being what they seem to be. I'll definitely study it in more detail. Thanks

[EVconverter]

Thank you Krugford... yes an interesting read on the tailgate aerodynamics, I have some ideas for this Ranger, but the guy sponsoring our build is into airplanes and such, so he has the last word on body aerodynamics. We are probably going to close in the underside, at least for the battery box. And when it is done he wants to lower the hood, probably Corvettish from how I read his "hands in the air" description...
AS far as placing the motor to rear you should check this wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV
Ford mounted the electric motor transversely, with a transaxle transmission...
And that is one of the reasons I am considering replacing the rear suspension with a four link and maybe the 8.8 axle from a lincoln town car (as suggest on TRS axle page) or F 150 axle. That allows more room for batteries on the outside of the frame, with a side crash bar of course...
ALSO Since I am new to this site and new to blogging in general and Since I created my posting before I found Dwinmacs, and since I see 36 people have checked my post but no replies and since it is the same subject... What's the proper thing to do? Delete that post? reference it over here ... http://therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324
move it over here?
I'm just barely computer literate... and prone to run on sentences

[EVconverter]

Dwinmac, I found a drawing... indeed at a body shop that does frame straightening... it's in metric... I told him about the the project and so he wants me to drive it by when it is done. If you don't have any luck at your locality, he will lend me the page for your '87 but we will need to know short bed, long bed, extended cab, etc... and I will send it to you.

[dwinmac]

EVconverter, I will check around. I may get back to you if I don't find anything. Thanks.

[Wicked_Sludge]

this is a very cool project and id love to see some pics of the install if possible.

could you elaborate on the clutch setup? you said the clutch is fixed to "always engaged" and is pedal-less...how does the rig shift?

is there an apx. HP rating for the motor?

another thing you guys have probably already taken into consideration, but ill say it anyway...that many batteries producing that many amps is going to produce a lot of heat. when you start adding skirts and air dams, you'll want to have at least some air flow through the battery backs to prevent heat from building up.

if this kit is as straightforward as it sounds....i might just consider it as an alternative for my '89 escort which sees mostly highway use, but only about 40 miles per day.

EDIT: never mind on the horsepower rating. if the controller is rated for 400 amps at 120 volts then thats only about 64 HP (its probably closer to 50-55HP as a safety margin).

[baddis]

when it's completed they should do a tech write-up in case anyone else desire to do the same:cool:

[dwinmac]

The part of the clutch that accepts the spline from the transmission is attached to an adapter that is the same diameter as that part of the clutch and the adapter slides onto the keyed moter shaft and is stablized with a set screw through the adapter to the motor shaft. A slight indentation is bored in the motor shaft where the set screw meets the shaft for additional security. I'll attach a picture showing the clutch part as attached to the adapter.

I'm not too sure yet how all the motor parameters fit together but according to the documentation the FB1_4001A motor is rated at 30 hp continuous at 144 volts an 100 hp peak. That would use 24 6 volt batteries, this design uses only 20 for 120 volts and more like 25 hp continuous. I think the continuous amp rating is more like 200 amps but I'm not sure. I'm just getting into that aspect of the design.

I'll attach some pictures from this past weekend. The pictures are not all that great because of the size restriction the website puts on them. It is a very interesting project.

[dwinmac]

As far as shifting is concerned I'll know better when we get it running and try it but supposedly you run in 2nd gear around town and in 3rd on the highway. Reverse is used to back up. I believe the rpm's are around 5000.

[Wicked_Sludge]

i see, so even thought the clutch disk is there, there is no functional clutch. shifting from 2nd to 3rd while moving could be tricky, but probably possible since your using a synchronized transmission.

the project looks good so far. the pics help show how the motor is adapted to the transmission and stock motor mounts.

if the motor is supposed to produce 25 HP with your 120V setup, then you'll be drawing about 155amps. that makes sense since electric motors are usually rated at their continuous HP, not their peak power (like gas engines), which can be several times higher then their continuous rating (100HP at 144V is 518A). we also have to try and remember the fact that electric motors usually produce MANY times the torque rating of their gasoline equivalent. 25HP may not sound like much, but its probably making more then 100ft-lbs of torque and at a much lower RPM then the gas engine.

[krugford]

I'm not too sure yet how all the motor parameters fit together but according to the documentation the FB1_4001A motor is rated at 30 hp continuous at 144 volts an 100 hp peak. That would use 24 6 volt batteries, this design uses only 20 for 120 volts and more like 25 hp continuous. I think the continuous amp rating is more like 200 amps but I'm not sure. I'm just getting into that aspect of the design.

The rating of the motor isn't going to go down because of decreased pack capacity. It's just saying that you can run the motor all day at that rating without risk of severly reduced life. Your continuous rating is going to be determined more by the batteries you're running than the motor. You are going to want to know how much current you can continuouly draw from the batteries without internal damage or overheating. Putting a load across a power cell will cause the voltage to drop. This means you can't use open circuit voltages in your power calculations and higher discharge rates exponentially decrease the effective capacity. You will also want to cool the batteries by flowing air through the enclosure and, if possible, keeping an airgap between all the cells. You're not going to need 25 hp to drive down the road either. I would say you'll probably need less than 20hp for highway crusing. Stop and go traffic will be the largest factor in how far you can go on a charge. You won't want to be constantly mashing your foot on the electron pedal. That and keep in mind the system efficiencies. Lead acid batteries in good working order are going to be around 65-70%. This means if you put in 100 amp hours into the pack from the grid, you'll only get 65-70 amp hours back out depending on your driving. That and your motor controller and motor are both going to cause additional decreases in miles per charge. What do the efficiency plots of the motor/controller look like? Do you have more specs?
A switch to three phase would yield higher efficiencies, but would also increase cost significantly. I believe the best motor/controller combo in the world right now will push around 98-99%, but once again, its all about the $$$$$.

Keep the pics coming!

[EVconverter]

As far as driving without a clutch... you drive it like a farm tractor, you choose a gear appropriate for the work to be performed, 2nd or 3rd (of 5) for around town, place the shift lever in position while stopped (No engine rpm (no idle)), make sure it "clicked" in, then depress the "electron pedal", gently of course... To get on the highway, you stop at the traffic light or gas station (hah) or wherever, at the top of the ramp and, while stopped, select 4th or 5th, make sure it clicked in, then go to the highway. There are several places in all the literature that I've been reading that warn against free revving, that is rpm with no load. But I think that all these warnings are in regard to over revving the motor where the centrifugal (centripetal for you young pups) will blow out the armature.
I spent 10 years as an over the road truck driver, and I learned early how to float the gears. That is, to shift the gears without using the clutch. It actually saves on clutch wear but takes its toll on the U joints, especially the first one at the back of the trans. So no matter how good a shifter you are, the wear takes place somewhere. But U joints are easier to replace than a clutch (never mind that a clutch can last 500,00 miles on a semi with a good driver). Here, in an electric vehicle, you either shift while stopped or learn to float the gears gently.
A gentleman I know used to drive for the county road commission, dump trucks with plows for the winter. The trucks were spec'd out with a 5 speed and 2 speed rear axle. Every 2 years they traded in some of the trucks for new ones. That year the new trucks arrived with Allison automatic 5 speeds with 2 speed rear... The drivers all looked at eachother with puzzled face. Can you shift a 2 speed rear with no clutch? YES... especially with all af the float available from an automatic. PLUS they stopped breaking axle shafts, which they would go through about one per week during plowing season... Soon all of the trucks came in with automatics...