fresh OH ~runs hot

[IMenriched]

Ok got spark now...runs good...very good...maybe too good?

I've been working on this thing after work, weekends..etc...30 some odd miles away from home....mostly due to the overhead hoist available there.
Got it running pretty good after a .04 overbore and mild cam, (cam craft) over haul. NEW, waterpump, thermostate 180deg, temp sensor for the gage.

Brought the beast home....runs abit dogish, like it was laboring to get to speed, got a minor exhaust leak too, which doesn't help the feeling of labored accelleration. I feel that a minor retiming would help that.??

it was heating up pretty well on the way home, towards "H", had to stop, ~ cool down~, so I pulled the thermostat out, buttoned it back up, topped everything back off, checked for leaks...headed for the last 10-12 miles for home. even then it was runnning hot toward the end,(the last mile er so), mind you with no thermostat. I was going to get a new radiator cap, cheap, easy to replace just didn't get one yet.

What did I do wrong.??
BTW, all fluids stay in correct places & levels. new interior gages purchased-just not installed yet.

What ELSE should I check?
:dunno:

[rickcdewitt]

since you have a different cam i wonder if the fuel mixture is off?did you pull out the little plug while timing it?cooling system pressure test?

[IMenriched]

since you have a different cam i wonder if the fuel mixture is off?did you pull out the little plug while timing it?cooling system pressure test?

by "little plug"...do you mean the little thin red spade like item in the plug connector on the TFI module....then yes... I pulled it set timing @14...tighten it down the distrib...& reinstalled said thin red spade. admittingly it would be good to recheck the timing.

as far as the radiator goes...no it wasn't pressure tested...looked good , blew out the fins, cleaned up the outside best i could, inside appeared good. I can't see that it is leaking any where!

when I stopped on the way home, it was in car wash station...so I washed the outside while waiting for it to cool down...then on rinse, (cooler water), without pulling the triggerfor high pressure , I ran it over the radiator inside and out, mostly out. On restart, the factory fan pulled all water in the radiator fins thru and just soaked the engine, i might as well have threw a pail of water on it....so I feel realtively sure that it is getting good air flow.

Is the 4.0 radiator thicker? i'm not sure whether the 2.9's radiator is 2-3core?
is the 4.0's 3-4core?? IS it a direct fit/replacement?

[Psychopete]

Is the 4.0 radiator thicker? i'm not sure whether the 2.9's radiator is 2-3core?
is the 4.0's 3-4core?? IS it a direct fit/replacement?

Yes, the super cooling max a/c auto 4.0L radiator is thicker. I remember when I was looking for at Napa, there were two brands, one was just a little smaller for some reason. Just measure the stock one so you know what you're looking for height and length wise.

The stock is a 1 row. The 4.0L radiator above is a 2 row. Some 4.0L radiators were 1 row (eg. manuals).

The radiator itself bolts right in, you will need to reuse the shroud from the 2.9L radiator. Some people have stated issues with the upper hose hitting the alternator belt pulley, I did not have this issue on my '88. I did have to trim about an inch off the lower hose (it was a brand new hose..). The correct hoses have been stated in the old forum data, perhaps someone could chime in with that information.

IMO, this probably isn't going to fix your problem.

Pete

[IMenriched]

Yes, the super cooling max a/c auto 4.0L radiator is thicker. I remember when I was looking for at Napa, there were two brands, one was just a little smaller for some reason. Just measure the stock one so you know what you're looking for height and length wise.

IMO, this probably isn't going to fix your problem.

Pete

OK~ well.... what, pray tell, is the core issue/problem?

nice to know that there is a heavier duty option from the 4.0, thanks
did the 2.9 with auto tranny and a/c also have heavier duty radiator? or not as heavy duty as the 4.0?

[BOSS302Man]

Maybe the engine is that tight when it was put back together it runs hot. Would explain the laboring when driving it. Did you have a 50/50 anti freeze mixture? Too much anti freeze % will make it run hot also. Don't ask how i know.

[rickcdewitt]

by "little plug"...do you mean the little thin red spade like item in the plug connector on the TFI module....then yes... I pulled it set timing @14...tighten it down the distrib...& reinstalled said thin red spade. admittingly it would be good to recheck the timing.stock base timing on a 2.9l is 10degrees,does camcraft tell you to run 14?if its 14 you might run 89 octane instead of 87 to prevent detonation. also the timing plug should be in the harness above the pass. valve cover.if you aren't sure you pulled the right plug rev the engine with the light hooked up and the timing won't advance with the plug out.it disables the computer advance.my 2.9l runs very cold with a man. tranny 4.0l radiator,you shouldent need the huge auto tranny radiator.as far as the mixture -looking at your exhaust and the deposits it leaves will help determine where its at.

[Hahnsb2]

DONT trust your stock gauges, put an aftermarket gauge in there and see what's what...

[IMenriched]

really appreiacte the all feed back!!!

What is the trick to changing the fuel filter??? it registering high on the/my hemiriodal ricter scale...(aka PITA)

NO... I don't trust the factory gages, just had simular repairs to our sedan...head gaskets...etc. Its temp gage now reads 14degs warmer than actual. New guages bought for ranger, need to install yet.

Yes 50/50mix.
could be tight...could roll over fairly easy...with no plugs. with plugs diffirent story.

will reset to 10 deg on the timing see what happens.

but as Paul Harvey says....the rest of the story;
discovered that mouse moved into the air box....yes I checked the air filter BEFORE, this overhual started, late last fall, it was good then....filter was not compromised, just packed with nest materails. CLEANED/evicted the rodent, wasn't home anyway....new filter.

NOW it really hunts for idle -surges-, once warmed up it flatens out.
thought i would change the fuel filter too....(see above 1st question in this reply)

It ran better with half a tank of gas and mouse laiden filter box...now with full tank &new filter...
on the way back from topping off the tank it just died....I suspect fuel...walked home. I got the wife to push me back home (2-3 blocks mostly down hill)...{yeah guys, with the other car ~what a gal}. tried to restart on the way home...just sputtering, turned the corner to the drive way....and it fired up Like nothing was wrong??? a real charlie brown moment...AAAAHHH

ran it the garage & ran fine...

[Psychopete]

I honestly couldn't tell you what's wrong with it, hard to tell on an aftermarket application.

Almost sounds like it's running lean. An A/F ration gauge might be of some help. What year is it, do you have a CEL present, and have you pulled codes yet? It might not be a bad idea to send the oil in to have it analyzed. Another thing that comes to mind, is the actual cam timing. You might also test the cooling system pressure, or have it tested. I believe too advanced timing increases chamber temps. also. How did the water pump look, and are you getting good coolant flow? Does one side of the radiator get hot, and the other stay cold?

Pete

[IMenriched]

I honestly couldn't tell you what's wrong with it, hard to tell on an aftermarket application.

Almost sounds like it's running lean. An A/F ration gauge might be of some help. What year is it, do you have a CEL present, and have you pulled codes yet? It might not be a bad idea to send the oil in to have it analyzed. Another thing that comes to mind, is the actual cam timing. You might also test the cooling system pressure, or have it tested. I believe too advanced timing increases chamber temps. also. How did the water pump look, and are you getting good coolant flow? Does one side of the radiator get hot, and the other stay cold?

Pete


Sorry It's a 86'
NO CEL...yet
yes, new waterpump. new pvc valve,
yes flow appears to be good, I looked after I removed the thermostat could see it moving right along. Can't say whether one side was cool or one side was hot on the raditator...hadn't tried that yet...will check
the snorkle from the factory air intake prior to the filter box to the behind the grill, happen to not be connected, so it was sucking in warm air from the engine bay. BUT I really don't feel that is a problem. thought i would mention it in case the Guru's here on TRS may feel that it is.

I'll have to check vac lines for leaks, recheck timing, O2 sensor & AIC...

I did do the zip tie thing on the foot pedal on the throtle to gain stroke back.
i'll see how much I can get done, Daugther is having knee surgry tomorrow, ACL reconstruction. SO it if I don't reply much I'm busy with that.

[Psychopete]

Sorry It's a 86'
NO CEL...yet


And you won't, either. Pull codes!

Pete

[IMenriched]

OK will pull codes.
Just got back sunday afternoon, daugthers hospital stay was longer than expected.
BEfore I left I did manage to recheck the timing...reset now @10tdc....at 1st appearance, it seemed to help with temp. (no real time to test completely).
I also have a pretty healthy oil leak up front, either front main seal or pan...not sure yet??

I plan on getting a new inertia switch. judging from the TRS tech library that is what I'm experiancing, maynot explain high temp, but should help with the stalling thing. also a 02 sensor, & AIC wouldn't hurt either....between those 3 things should clear up my issues. along with getting that pesky fuel filter changed and new gages installed.

thanks again

[IMenriched]

Where, pray tell, is the fuel filter??....I found the pump...the accumilator, working back toward the tank. Can't see behind the tank very well, but don't see it. I suspect/fear mine has been devoriced out. OR is it possible it is built in to the fuel pumps??

Still have this stalling problem....left me walking twice. checked the inertia switch, jumber wire around, no change. The last time I was checking afew things fuseable links by the battery...coil has power...took off the TFI again...checked, seemed OK regreased a bit heavier reinstalled...IT STARTED right up???!!!

rechecked the timing, after it warmed abit, cracked the throttle, a bit boggie, was standin on the passanger side of the truck, tring to watch the tail pipe too...didn't see great clouds of black, so I don't think that its running rich. slowly ramped up the R's , trying to simulate getting up to speed, got to about 2k and it coughed a coouple of times, like it was back fireing....so i let go of the throttle, it ran for about a minute er 2 then just died again...No spark again???

any ideas??

[Psychopete]

Where, pray tell, is the fuel filter??....I found the pump...the accumilator, working back toward the tank. Can't see behind the tank very well, but don't see it. I suspect/fear mine has been devoriced out. OR is it possible it is built in to the fuel pumps??

Mine's located inside of the frame rail, drivers side, right next the to drivers side exhaust manifold. It's kind of a pain, be sure to de-pressurize the system before you pull the fuel clips and fuel lines out. If you didn't know, there will be a plastic arrow looking piece at each end of the fuel line, I used a flat blade screw driver, got under that clip and pulled down. *I didn't pry on anything, they come out fairly easy. Then the line just slips off.

I didn't know this, but apparently you can install the new clip into the fuel line and "click" it into place as you're re-connecting the fuel line. I replaced the fuel lines and carefully clicked the clip back in over the fuel filter barb. After that, I turned the key on 'run' then 'off', pushed on the schrader valve and a ton of air/gas came out, repeated the ignition sequence and checked for any leaks.


Still have this stalling problem....left me walking twice. checked the inertia switch, jumber wire around, no change. The last time I was checking afew things fuseable links by the battery...coil has power...took off the TFI again...checked, seemed OK regreased a bit heavier reinstalled...IT STARTED right up???!!!

rechecked the timing, after it warmed abit, cracked the throttle, a bit boggie, was standin on the passanger side of the truck, tring to watch the tail pipe too...didn't see great clouds of black, so I don't think that its running rich. slowly ramped up the R's , trying to simulate getting up to speed, got to about 2k and it coughed a coouple of times, like it was back fireing....so i let go of the throttle, it ran for about a minute er 2 then just died again...No spark again???

any ideas??

Almost sound like a wiring problem? I've never really had to deal with intermittent spark, there's some good info out on the internet in regards to testing the TFI module and the circuits that make all of that happen. I did have problems with my truck just dying when htting a bump, turned out to be a corroded positive wire to my coil. I found it by just jiggling wires around.

I would start testing to see where the voltage is missing to determine what the cause might be. Even on a larger scale, like is the PCM and fuel pumps still functioning when this happens?

Pete

[IMenriched]

Mine's located inside of the frame rail, drivers side, right next the to drivers side exhaust manifold.

Agreed, that is where I've been looking too...nadda nothing there...there is a little plate covering the fuel lines....it is not anywhere deep enough to house the replacement filter I have...so I'm doubtful if its there. but will remove and see.

[/QUOTE]Almost sound like a wiring problem? I've never really had to deal with intermittent spark, there's some good info out on the internet in regards to testing the TFI module and the circuits that make all of that happen. I did have problems with my truck just dying when htting a bump, turned out to be a corroded positive wire to my coil. I found it by just jiggling wires around.

I would start testing to see where the voltage is missing to determine what the cause might be. Even on a larger scale, like is the PCM and fuel pumps still functioning when this happens?

Pete[/QUOTE]

thanks Pete
I was a wiggling all kinds of wires can't get it to repeat for definate to say "OH that's it"...I'll swap out the O2 this weekend and do more testing too. I did have a green wire to the coil that was suspect so I spliced in a new one, & again a green wire that had a inline resistor that was broke too...just took out the resistor, (wire was broke right beside it)...but no affect on spark. the only ground I'm missing is the cab ground to the exhuast pipe. plan on redoing that as well.

thanks again

[Natedog]

... I did have a green wire to the coil that was suspect so I spliced in a new one, & again a green wire that had a inline resistor that was broke too...just took out the resistor, (wire was broke right beside it)...but no affect on spark. the only ground I'm missing is the cab ground to the exhuast pipe. plan on redoing that as well...

That is prolly a diode, not a resistor. Was it about 3" long kinda flat sides and grey/black color? Should be a molded in diode sign on it. Not sure what they are for, but diodes are made to only let current flow in one direction....that could be a problem.

[IMenriched]

That is prolly a diode, not a resistor. Was it about 3" long kinda flat sides and grey/black color? Should be a molded in diode sign on it. Not sure what they are for, but diodes are made to only let current flow in one direction....that could be a problem.

Agreed diodes allow only one way current flow.

No I don't think it is a diode....there is several others of these diodes "inline" and they are all marked "diode" right on the plactic/rubber molding. this one had a zig-zag /\/\/\/ with a arrow following. I'm pretty sure that is a resistor symbol...not going to say that it couldn't be a diode....But your discription is acturate, this one is gray &about 3" long. I clipped another one out of the donor truck that I have & will splice it in....and see.

the last time this thing the ignition disappeared, I did unplug the coil connection & check for voltage there...hmmm I'll revisit that too...thanks for the reminder.

[IMenriched]

Well been checking this and that....found the orange ground wire by the TFI.
had gotten under the lip of the valve cover. Got it out, spliced in a new chunk of wire and reattached the ground.

Still no spark....I can get spark from the #5 TFI port (KOEO) when running it to the ground....according to the tech library here that hint that the coil is suspect.....BUT it is a brand new coil (Accel).

Checked for resistance and so forthon the coil...it checks fine independently.
so I' at a loss for what else I can check??

How do you check the pick up coil, (under the dizzy) ??

[john5482]

Check your exhaust ports and make sure they are not plugged up, it's a common problem with overheating. With your engine temp going to HOT, you may have cracked the heads, a magnaflux test would be a good idea. Do a compresson and a leak check to see if heads, valves, pistons and rings are worn or damaged. If you have a ECT sensor, check to make sure it's working. Remove the oil pan and check the end play of the crankshaft, check bearings. Bent rods cannot be easily seen, they are usually tested.

[IMenriched]

thanks John5482

I think It maybe time to recap....at the start of this thread it was running...& running warm to hot with no thermostat and with factory gages after about 3years of sitting.

to get to this point, I Overhauled the engine, .04over, new everything.
One of The last times it was running...I readjusted the timing, it was heading toward 22deg btdc, now it is at 10btdc. that was in the last couple of weeks. I feel that running warm to hot has been corrected. but it also has an intermitant stalling issue, see below.

within the last 3-4weeks it developed a stalling issue. Everytime was after it was warm, as it was coasting to a stop sign it would stall & not start....no spark....I can hear the fuel pump start so I don't feel that it is NOT a fuel problem...just yet. with the stalling thing it been difficult to trust it to go anywhere but just short trips uptown. SO just to for prospective,this rebuild only has 35-45 miles on it.

Ive checked the tfi, coil, plug wires...but as mentioned earlier...I'm not electrically inclined :fie:....so I could have checked something and thought it was good & not realized it wasn't....anyway i've wiggled &checked wires till I'm blue in the face. with no real Gommer Pile moment...."Shazam"...thats it.

yesterday I headed to pull the entire distributor, (going to replace the pickup coil), got the cap off and removed the rotor and noticed that metal end that sweeps around was loose...really loose....so I checked for resistance from the center tab out to the end and go some really wild readings..so the theory is that if is that intremittant just wiggling that what would it be like under a idle situation where it would likely/maybe to have the most vibration...just a theory mind you. it was just late enough that the parts store was closed....SO I'll get a new one and see if that makes a difference.

really apprecaite all the input..thanks

[IMenriched]

OK I replaced the pick-coil....got the spark back!! I mentioned this on another thread

I feel that Iv'e gottn the distrib back in correct ..but the I swapped out whole distributors and the one (best one I had- used) has extra boss on the outside of the housing...for the octane rod. My original distrib housing did not have this. This Extra housing boss is limiting me from setting the base timing....as I rotate ccw (looking down on the distributor, grill is 6 o-clock)to get more advance the housing hits the back most injector. hmmm right now it is running (badly) at or past TDC.

can I just pick up the distributor and rotate it 1 tooth on the cam to get the advance i need ???

OR do I have to put in the original distrutor and put the pick-up coil parts in that???

ALSO as read someone elses simular issue, to check the wires in the harness.
so I do....I peeled back the tape, working from the TFI connector back. found a unisulated braided wire not hooked to anything???? what is that for????

[IMenriched]

Ok as mentioned in the last post I replaced the pickup coil.
Still was not getting the advance I needed I swapped out the distributor for one that didn't have the octane rod...dropped it in but ended up being 1 tooth off pulled it up and rotated it the distributor the correct direction this time... got it running pretty darn good.

BUT
still had a surging idle...repalced the following ;
the O2 sensor....little improvement
the AIC controller...some more improvement, but marginal
the tps, this showed the greatest improvement
none of these were new items, except the O2 sensor

runs pretty sweet now.

thanks to all that chimed in and offered support, advice and encouragement:icon_thumby:

[rickcdewitt]

assuming everything else is behaving itself what about the IAC valve?is the idle surge a regular interval and similar rpm difference when it happens?probably IAC.
alright now for the important question...hows it feel with the motor work and that cam?you know i was wondering about the new cam and low end torque. i want my build to focus on low end torque retention for towing mileage and idling it down for creeping around the trail.the camcraft tech wasen't very helpful and most write ups don't say much about the best torque set up(besides a 4.0l).

[IMenriched]

assuming everything else is behaving itself what about the IAC valve? is the idle surge a regular interval and similar rpm difference when it happens? probably IAC.
alright now for the important question...hows it feel with the motor work and that cam?you know i was wondering about the new cam and low end torque. i want my build to focus on low end torque retention for towing mileage and idling it down for creeping around the trail.the camcraft tech wasen't very helpful and most write ups don't say much about the best torque set up(besides a 4.0l).

Yes when it "surges" it is regular and consistant intervals....I just tryied to clean up 2 different USED IAC's...I may have to break down and get a new one.

DID YOU CHAT WITH CHARLIES at Cam craft?? I did maybe I caught him on a day where he wasn't busy??? don't know.... but he was really chatty for myself. I just small talked abit and he was interested in what I was trying to do....which is a Daily driver...dependable and flatten out the power band
improve the breathing abit...so to speak. you get the idea. I wasn't going for low end grunt. I have barked the tires (4sp auto w/ auto 4x4) if that helps you.

to be honest, I Havn't tested it much yet....want to replace the front main seal again... got pretty healthy leak there....but intial results seem good....
I havn't spent a lot of time in/behind the wheel other Rangers of simular type so my comparision is limited.

after sitting for about 3yrs prior to my aquirment...the tranny (although OH )may need to get a new filter and oil...maybe a shift module??

To be honest it isn't running as hard as I was hoping for.... yet... it may need some other tweeking. I feel the "core" of the work done is solid...just sensors or minor adjustments... etc. I only have 45 miles on this OH so "break in" most likely isn't done.

thanks again

[rickcdewitt]

yeah i talked to charles and he said that all the cams are good for 4x4's.he talked about the cams in general and recommended the cam you have.he said to ask about it here for experiences.he could have been busy,i diden't talk to him very long.i should call back and ask about retaining low end torque.

[IMenriched]

yeah i talked to charles and he said that all the cams are good for 4x4's.he talked about the cams in general and ,i diden't talk to him very long.i should call back and ask about retaining low end torque.

the other thing id din't mention is I'm unclear as to what gear ratio I have in my punkins...they maybe fairly low 373 er so??? I yet to confirm what I have

if your going for low end... you may already be getting there just with your 410's and manual gear box which by nature will help the low end.
or do the stacked transferr cases theat are listed in teh tech library here.

hope that helps

[IMenriched]

Running again....ya mentioned that already

it is official...I have no visable fuel filter??
IS it possible.... that on some rangers had the filter is included with the 2nd pump on the frame rail?? in the tank?? no splices where it may have been removed.

still likes to run warm/hot after 7-10 miles er so?? slow climb in temp.

thanks