converting from gas to water

[swamprat]

Going to stir things up a bit. I caught a news spot about running your car on water instead of gas. The car converts water to HHO. They claim that it will work on any car. I did some searching on line and found a few web sites claiming the same thing. They offer the plans for less that $50 and you need to buy the parts at your hardware store. Some sites have diagram and directions for free. Your car is running on hydrogen gas that is made at the time needed. The by-product is H2O and O2. What do you guys think about this?

http://http://www.fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/FEV-hydrogen-generator-build-one.php (http://www.fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/FEV-hydrogen-generator-build-one.php)

[pillen140]

i have the plans, i'll take $40, and ill let you have em!:derisive:

[swamprat]

Did you make it work?

[Will]

You knew you were opening yourself up for a ration of abuse so I won't pity you.

[mhughes165]

dude, just let it go now, if ur gonna try it like some of us on here have, then do it, this topic always leads to a huge argument

[swamprat]

You knew you were opening yourself up for a ration of abuse so I won't pity you.


Just wanted to know if anybody has seen or made one work. I also started the thread with 'going to stir things up a bit' so no pity needed. Besides BMW is rumored to working on a production car to be released in the next five years.

[pillen140]

sorry, just kidding! but thats what the company would do, just take your money! if i really did have the plans(and they really worked), i would give them to anyone, cant hurt to save the planet!

[kunar]

i dont think you can really run just on hydrogen without a lot of work. i am convinced that a supplemental hydrogen system is certainly worth the $30 or $40 it takes to put one together though.

[mhughes165]

i dont think you can really run just on hydrogen without a lot of work. i am convinced that a supplemental hydrogen system is certainly worth the $30 or $40 it takes to put one together though.

x2

[Jspafford]

I will try anything someone can show me works. It is getting rediculas. The whole friggin world is beginning to crumble because of fuel prices.

When it gets to $5.00 a gallon all hell will break loose.

[Wicked_Sludge]

When it gets to $5.00 a gallon all hell will break loose.

you dont really believe that do you?

they said the same thing about $1.00 a gallon, and $2.00 a gallon, and $3.....

want to know what will happen when it hits $5 a gallon? we will all bend over a little further, the oil companies will shove it in a little deeper, and we'll all get in our gasoline powered cars and drive away with our tails between our legs.

[Jspafford]

Think it, people are already resorting to stealing gas more now than ever before.


*See thread about locking gas caps*


When does it end? When is Exxon and BP going to stop rolling in their year after year of record profits and build a refinery in the US.

There will be a point, be it $5 a gallon of $7 a gallon when we will not be able to afford to go anywhere. It will cost us more to go to work than it will to just sit at home.

[85_Ranger4x4]

you dont really believe that do you?

they said the same thing about $1.00 a gallon, and $2.00 a gallon, and $3.....

want to know what will happen when it hits $5 a gallon? we will all bend over a little further, the oil companies will shove it in a little deeper, and we'll all get in our gasoline powered cars and drive away with our tails between our legs.

We are getting close to the breaking point though, prices are jumping because of the increase in fuel expenses as well. Kind of a perfect storm really, the economy is going to pot the same time fuel prices are skyrocketing.

[Wicked_Sludge]

all that means is people will pay more for more fuel efficient vehicles.

i forsee a day of $100 a gallon prices, driven up eventually by the fact that people are driving 100+ MPG vehicles...supply and demand.

[kaskirov]

all that means is people will pay more for more fuel efficient vehicles.

i forsee a day of $100 a gallon prices, driven up eventually by the fact that people are driving 100+ MPG vehicles...supply and demand.

ummm so people are driving cars with good millage and this will drive gas prices up? better mileage means less people buying gas, ie; less demand. low demand = low price

[Wicked_Sludge]

no, less gas sold means the oil companies need to raise the price to continue turning a profit.

[Jspafford]

no, less gas sold means the oil companies need to raise the price to continue turning a profit.


WHAT?!

So it goes from them jacking it up because we are using to much, to them jacking it up because were not using as much.

If that's the case it should be free now, cause we use so much of it.

Normally when something doesn't sell they mark it down to get it to move.

[Wicked_Sludge]

they are jacking the prices now because they are greedy. because they can.

soon they'll have to jack the price just to stay afloat.

[Sunk]

they are jacking the prices now because they are greedy. because they can.

soon they'll have to jack the price just to stay afloat.

But they say they are raising prices now to "deter" us from driving. Yeah, that works. :icon_idea:

[BlackBII]

I walk to work now!!

Gas is always going to be expensive, and we are always going to need it, oil companies are always gonna be going cha-ching cha-ching, oh well

Ya know, replacing show soles is cheaper than a set of mudders!

[Will]

Why can't something just suck without people painting up Jesus is Coming signs?

By combining trips and not running out for every little thing, and varying routes and driving a little more thoughtfully we can absorb another good increase in fuel. As Americans our hobby for 60 years has been driving. That's why it bites so hard. But I saw worse prices than these in France when I lived there 15 years ago. Diesel was $4.00 and Sans Plomb was $5.00. Adjust your needs by getting a little car if you can't afford an 18mpg Ranger. A pair of 35mpg Escorts would cut my families fuel cost from 6% of the family budget to 3%. A nominal figure so we are still driving gas guzzlers. Doesn't hurt enough for us yet.

The ONLY thing that will make more efficient cars is people buying more efficient cars. Our economy is guided by what people buy. Buy $35,000 V8 SUVs and guess what the auto makers will throw themselves into building? Nissan and Toyota built Suburban sized things because Americans were buying gluttony and they wanted that money. Start buying little gas sippers and they will swing their Eye of Mordor onto that market with gusto and compete for your miserly desires.

Why shouldn't the oil companies make money? They are not in the charity business. They should charge the maximum that people will buy. tThey should adjust their prices by what people are willing to pay. That's what everyone in America does. That's what your employer does, wherever you work.

[MAKG]

Think it, people are already resorting to stealing gas more now than ever before.


I guess you're quite a bit younger than I thought you were.

What you are seeing is a repeat of 1973 and 1978-79. It's not new. It's not significantly worse. The response to 1973 was the Datsun B210. Everybody whined about it and said the world was coming to an end. Fuel prices more than doubled. The economy slowed down substantially. And it ended without thermonuclear armageddon.

[reno]

If I remember right, 1973 was the embargo. I don't remember much, I was only 5 at that time.

[chico4554]

im not too familiar with the crisis in the 70's, only that there was one. What was the reason? And how was it resolved?

[Will]

I'm sure you can wikipedia it and find all the scoop but it was during the Yom Kipper War when Egypt and Syria were trying to beat up Israel. Naturally, since the oil producers are largely Moslum countries, they decided to punish Israel's supporters. Since Israel was going to lose without emergency US shipments of ammo and spare parts, we were on the list. And also, they wanted to use the opportunity to adjust the price of crude in their favor. They became more organized afterwards.

What ended it was the war was over and mostly the people supporting Israel are their biggest customers. They needed the money.

[Branger2B]

you guys can argue all you want.. while ur busy doing that ill be FLOORING it :3gears: with the last jerrycan of gas on this planet..... then we wont have to worry about stupid gas prices....... :stirthepot: long live the corn..........

[mhughes165]

i actually got a pleasant surprise earlier when i went to empty the tank from the ranger after i pulled it, it was more then half full, and i drove 175 miles on the tank before it got parked, so far ive filled up one 5 gallon can, and theres atleast antoher one in there too

[almostclueless]

LOL I'm going to guard the last semi-load of gasoline, driving my black Australian Ford Falcon!!!

[Jspafford]

I guess you're quite a bit younger than I thought you were.

What you are seeing is a repeat of 1973 and 1978-79. It's not new. It's not significantly worse. The response to 1973 was the Datsun B210. Everybody whined about it and said the world was coming to an end. Fuel prices more than doubled. The economy slowed down substantially. And it ended without thermonuclear armageddon.


How old did you think I was. My older sister was not even born for the 1973 incident, and was a newborn for the second.

I didn't come along until 1984. That makes me 24.

I was just asking someone at work if it had ever been this bad before, because they say history repeats itself. They told me know, but she isin't all that old either so I was undecided.

[Evan]

I am amazed that despite the failing financial markets, high gas and food prices, etc. our GDP actually grew 0.6% during the first quarter of this year.

That's at least some good news.

[MAKG]

How old did you think I was. My older sister was not even born for the 1973 incident, and was a newborn for the second.

I didn't come along until 1984. That makes me 24.

I was just asking someone at work if it had ever been this bad before, because they say history repeats itself. They told me know, but she isin't all that old either so I was undecided.

You are quite a bit younger than I thought you were.

I was pretty young for 1973 (5), but I do remember it. I remember the later incident (driven by instability in Iran ahead of the 1979-81 hostage crisis) very well. You could only fill up your tank on certain days based on your license plate number (generally odd vs. even). It was A LOT worse. You might wait in line for two hours only for the tank to run dry before you got to the front of the line.

Much of the 70s was stagnant, in part due to the oil shocks.

[bobbywalter]

i tried it, i built a unit that pulls up to 50 amps....in a big diesel they help alot when actually designed for use, but i think it is due to the water vapor more then h2. i actually tried to become a hfi dealer/installer years ago.

my home built unit dont do shit for my v8 over the long run, i tore up my o2 harness wheelin and havent dicked with it since. i moved its feed behind my maf sensor though, cause cranked up it put out too much vapor. i have not been inclined to play with it, but i might do it with the diesel...


so yeah. its ghey.:D



on edit here....i did have one comment that it could make a good coffee maker from a curious neighbor that had been wondering wtf i had been doing..

[85_Ranger4x4]

How old did you think I was. My older sister was not even born for the 1973 incident, and was a newborn for the second.

I didn't come along until 1984. That makes me 24.

I was just asking someone at work if it had ever been this bad before, because they say history repeats itself. They told me know, but she isin't all that old either so I was undecided.

Hehe, you got 6 months on me, I am still 23.

My dad says the second one was a pretty rough time, but then he wasn't exactly driving economy cars then either. He wasn't driving yet for the first one.

[rangerbronco288]

Actually guys this can work. I work at a chevy dealership and one of the techs there took a week off of work and went to some state (dont remember) for training in this kind of a setup. he has an older pontiac trans sport van with the v6 and with this technology he is currently getting 46 mpg. The best part is he is only running at about 40% effeciency once he gets it tuned he will but up around 80% efficiency and averaging somewhere around 80mpg. The best part is he has to install it on 3 of his cars and it has to be verified by where he went to school for it. Then he can start installing it on other peoples vehicles and the cost from him for parts and labor for everything is $1500 which really isnt too bad im waiting for him to finish his cars so i can have it put on my truck hopefully.

[MAKG]

80% efficiency is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE with a gasoline engine.

The thermal limit is about 60%. That's perfect. The practical limit is closer to 35%.

The only way to get above that is to raise the combustion temperature -- in proportion in absolute scale. Which means HUNDREDS of degrees C at a minimum. And then your gasoline will detonate and your pistons will seize.

This isn't even addressing the 46 MPG claim. Which is less than believable on any Pontiac, let alone a sport van.

[Jason]

T


When does it end? When is Exxon and BP going to stop rolling in their year after year of record profits and build a refinery in the US.



They will build one when the enviro-nazis let them. They have tried to build refineries but have not been successful since 1975.

[James Denton]

80% efficiency is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE with a gasoline engine.

The thermal limit is about 60%. That's perfect. The practical limit is closer to 35%.

The only way to get above that is to raise the combustion temperature -- in proportion in absolute scale. Which means HUNDREDS of degrees C at a minimum. And then your gasoline will detonate and your pistons will seize.

This isn't even addressing the 46 MPG claim. Which is less than believable on any Pontiac, let alone a sport van.

They also said it was impossible for a man to walk on the moon ----BUT IT HAPPEN

[Jason]

They also said it was impossible for a man to walk on the moon ----BUT IT HAPPEN

No it didn't but that's fodder for another thread.

[MAKG]

They also said it was impossible for a man to walk on the moon ----BUT IT HAPPEN

So, who is "they?"

You can't make sh*t up and pretend it's a fact.

NASA was created in the early 60s with the idea that it was both possible and feasible to send a man to the moon and back (that latter part being rather important). Von Braun had the idea as early as the 20s. No one thought it was impossible.

Now, if you want to address the statement that 80% thermal efficiency is impossible on the facts, go right ahead. But to make stuff up without understanding it? Don't even bother.

Thermal efficiency goes back to the steam engine. It's quite well understood. And you aren't going to get better than about 60% or so EVER with a gasoline engine. Unless you can figure out how to keep it from detonating at MUCH higher temperatures (but then, it's not gasoline, and such an engine isn't going to be terribly recognizable, since you won't keep the aluminum parts from melting).

[Evan]

They also said it was impossible for a man to walk on the moon ----BUT IT HAPPEN


First, just about any well-educated person in the 20th century would have admitted travel to the moon was possible.

Second, you're comparing two different things. Walking on the moon is a technical process, and you're comparing it to a physical/scientific constraint. It would be like me saying the following:

"People said we couldn't walk on the moon but we did, so it is certainly possible for me to freeze water at 50 degrees F at STP, even though people say it can't be done. They said the same thing about walking on the moon."

[85_Ranger4x4]

They also said it was impossible for a man to walk on the moon ----BUT IT HAPPEN

They also said nothing could sink the Titanic...

[canyoncritter]

and "they" also say gore-blah warming is caused by man emitting co2

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfmFuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report

[oldbaldy454]

Swamprat and others:

My engineer son-in-law and I built a HHO generator in a 4" ABS tube with stainless steel wall plates, draws 20-25 amps and bubbles really good...We hooked it up to the Ranger at the PCV valve inlet near the throttle body with a 3/8" tube and let it run.

At idle speed we noticed no difference. Then I pulled the connector off of the IAC and dropped the idle down to 400-500 rpm and he also covered the Airbox snorkle inlet with his hand, as I fed the tube into the PCV valve inlet. It idled normally with the HHO gas running the engine, proof enough for us that it was running on almost pure hydrogen. When we pulled the H fed tube out, the idle speed dropped down where the engine almost stalled.
We did that several times and said "damn, it works".

Check engine light came on and we reset it by disconnecting battery.

Our next design will be something to fit under the Ranger's hood without melting.
There is very little room to mount anything with the 3.0 FFV engine and the heat from the exhaust manifold will probably not help. There is barely enough room to set a 4" diameter canister in front of the A/C heater connections.

We saw one of the You Tube Videos where a guy had put a rectangular stainless steel box in the trunk (if you can call it that) of a Prius and ran it cross country that yielded an improvement from 48 mpg to 66 mpg. His rate of H gas production was controlled by a variac mounted on his consule next to the drivers seat connected to the output of a 1800 watt DC to AC converter in the trunk. Then he used the AC thru a diode rectifier arrangement (bridge or ?)to feed the H generator plates.

Another guy re-fed his H generator with water from the windshield washer contatner
and the suction from the bubbler pulled the water in as needed...Hey is that neat or what?

I've had one person try to sell me an $1100 H system from:
http://www.hafctechnology.com/index.htm
Looks to be the best one around and with proven results.

Another kit is priced more reasonable at $170 at
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/


For those of you believers, let me know what you are using on your Rangers in a private message. Thanks.

JB, retired electronics instructor, with time on his hands to fiddle with technology