Need a little help RE: axle upgrades

[4.56-FX4]

Ok, guys, I just got done reading this http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14540 thread.

Don't worry I DO NOT plan on putting 44's on my truck.

Rig info: Right now, I'm running a completely stock (drivetrain-wise) 2003 FX4, so I've got the 4.0L SOHC engine with the 5spd manual tranny.

I've got it sittin' up on a 3" BL and runnin' 33x12.5 Boggers with custom front/rear bumpers and sliders, 4.56 gears (hence the name), and an Aussie locker in front.

I've thought about going with D44 axles from/for a Jeep TJ (links below),

http://www.4wheelparts.com/PDT260543.aspx
http://www.4wheelparts.com/PDT260538.aspx

I've thought about getting some 1 ton axles from a fullsize,

I've, honestly, thought about a little bit of everything.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm wondering if you can guide me a bit. I'm running the 4.0L V6 and 5 speed tranny.

What axles would be "perfect" for this rig (yes, I realize that's very subjective, but I'd like to hear your suggestions)? Would D44's front/rear suffice to run 36-37" tires? I'm lookin' right away to run probably 36" IROKs, but might want to move up to 37" or maybe even 38.5" Boggers at some point.

I've heard alot of guys runnin' 9" rear w/ D44 front, too. Thought about that, but not sure.

What about D60 front/rear? Would that be overkill runnin' the engine that I have now? I'm sure some of you've see alot more applications that I have, can you give me some guidance?

Gearing, I think should be in the neighborhood of 5.13:1 for 36-37", but since I'm thinking of going to 38.5, then if you think I should go lower than that, then let me know. I might be alright with 5.29 for a while anyway. I live on Guam and don't drive long distances anyway.

Thanks in advance.

[hitech_hick]

The cheapest, easiest, best way to go about this is to pick a tire size, and go with it. Tire size will determine what axles you should run. Tire size will determine the proper gear ratio. Tire size will determine the amount of lift that you need. If you are planning on going with 36's to 37's, then the D44's will work fine, and 5.13's would be a good gear choice. If you are going to run 38.5's, you should really run 1 tons.

I have seen 2.9's break stock D60 stub shafts with 36's, engine size (within reason) plays a less significant part in determining axle size than tires.


hick

[4.56-FX4]

Thanks. That's what I am thinkin' and really leanin' towards (the D44 front and rear).

Did you look at those TJ axles that I linked to? Those seem like a decent deal to me, what're your thoughts? I'm thinkin' 37x12.50s, D44 front/rear, ARB front/rear, 5.13 or maybe even 5.29 gears and I'd have a killer truck.

More opinions are welcome. Lay them out here.

I am happy with where I'm at now, but I realize that it's always a work in progress. I want to make sure I'm happy with my next stage so tell me if I'm headed in the right direction.

[crbnunit]

Something else to consider. Bolt pettern. Unless you want to carry two spares it is a pretty important consideration. 44 and a 9" work really well together.

[4.56-FX4]

Ok, guys. A little more on this from my end.

I'm lookin' at putting 36-37" on this right away, but would like to be able to go up a few inches later w/o swapping axles again.

That being said, I emailed Currie and Dynatrac for estimates/suggestions. Dynatrac has not replied yet, but Currie has.

Currie recommends D60 front/rear. In their own words, using D44's for 37's would be driving on borrowed time and it's not a matter of IF I'd break something, but when.

That being said, I'm told by a very knowledgeable friend of mine that the D44's that I linked to above would be plenty strong enough to run 37's on. They have Chromolly Axle Shafts and I know that is good, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if that would be good enough to run the 37's on or not.

Anyone out there wanna throw out some more info/advice?

[4.56-FX4]

FWIW, here's the quote I got from Currie.

1 ROCK JOCK 60 REAR - AND 1 ROCK JOCK 60 FRONT:

Prfx Item # Qty Description Price Item Total
ROCKJOCK III - NODULAR IRON HIGH PINION HOUSING - 100% NEW - W/ TUBES AND ENDS 999.9000 999.9
CURRIE PERFORMANCE AXLE PACKAGE 449.9500 449.95
5.13 RATIO REVERSE CUT 309.9500 309.95
4.56 UP DETROIT LOCKER 35 SPLINE 699.9500 699.95
D60 MASTER BEARING KIT 125.9500 125.95
LABSRVC-SET UP LABOR ONLY 124.9500 124.95
THICK STEEL COVER 49.9500 49.95
1350 SERIES YOKE 59.9500 59.95
LABSRVC- ASSEMBLE REAR - INSTALL AXLES AND BRAKES 49.9500 49.95
WILWOOD BRAKE KIT W/INTERNAL PARKING BRAKE 684.9500 684.95
UNIVERSAL PARKING BRAKE CABLE KIT FOR WILWOOD BRAKES 109.9500 109.95
85-140W 9-PLUS (I QUART) - EACH 8.7500 35

THIS QUOTE IS WITHOUT ANY SUSPENSION BRACKETRY.
TOTAL....$3700.40 BEFORE SHIPPING


Prfx Item # Qty Description Price Item Total
IRON ROCK JOCK - IMPORT - FRONT D60 REVERSE ROTATION HSG BUILT TO YOUR SPEC W/1TON INNER KNUCKLES - NO COVER OR YOKE 1299.9000 1299.9
5.13 RATIO REVERSE CUT 309.9500 309.95
4.56 UP DETROIT LOCKER 35 SPLINE 699.9500 699.95
D60 MASTER BEARING KIT 125.9500 125.95
LABSRVC-SET UP LABOR ONLY 124.9500 124.95
THICK STEEL COVER 49.9500 49.95
1350 SERIES YOKE 59.9500 59.95
EXTREME INNER AXLE ACCEPTS 1480 SERIES U JOINT - BUILT TO SPEC 199.9500 399.9
SPICER 1480 SERIES U-JOINT 74.9500 149.9
SUPER DUTY EXTREME DUTY STUB AXLE - 35 SPLINE - EACH 189.9500 379.9
PARTS TO COMPLETE SD FRONT-END 2299.9500 2299.95
MACHINE UNIT BEARING FOR 35 SPLINE OUTER AXLE (EA) 50.0000 100
LABSRVC - ASSEMBLE FRONTEND W/KNUCKLES- HUBS & BRAKES 199.9500 199.95
U-JOINT STRAP KIT 1 3/16 INCH CAP 6.9500 6.95
85-140W 9-PLUS (I QUART) - EACH 8.7500 26.25
SUPERDUTY TIE ROD WITH HEIM JOINTS 200.0000 200

TOTAL....$6433.40 - AGAIN WITHOUT SUSPENSION BRACKETS.

[metalmacguyver]

.............$6433.40 :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl:

[4.56-FX4]

Yeah, I was sayin' the same thing.

Is a D60 REALLY worth that much more than a D44? I realize these Currie axles are nice, but do they have like... gold plating on them or something?

On another note, what're your thoughts on those D44's that I linked to?

[hitech_hick]

Yeah, I was sayin' the same thing.

Is a D60 REALLY worth that much more than a D44? I realize these Currie axles are nice, but do they have like... gold plating on them or something?

On another note, what're your thoughts on those D44's that I linked to?

Look a little pricey considering that they lack knuckles, bearings, and brakes. Check out these complete axle assemblies JK Axle Assemblies (http://www.4wd.com/jeep-parts.aspx?jeep-sid=353&plID=354&sort=price&dir=asc). You will have to regear them, but you will still be time and money ahead. Also, there is nothing wrong with using an 8.8 or 9 inch rear either.



hick

[4.56-FX4]

Are those 30 spline axle? How're you supposed to tell?

What's the width on the Ranger axle for comparision?

Also, I'm assuming it's fairly easy to change the bolt pattern, right. Is it really necessary or is there a fair amount of aftermarket support for the 5x5 pattern?

[hitech_hick]

Are those 30 spline axle? How're you supposed to tell?

What's the width on the Ranger axle for comparision?

Also, I'm assuming it's fairly easy to change the bolt pattern, right. Is it really necessary or is there a fair amount of aftermarket support for the 5x5 pattern?

From what I have read, the rear has 32 spline shafts, and the front has 30 spline inners, and 32 spline outers.

Axle width is comparable to a Ranger's, although slightly wider. Plenty of aftermarket support for 5 on 5 bolt pattern.



hick

[crbnunit]

Hell, I've run 36's on a D-35 for years. I don't break things unless I get stupid (like pulling a Surburban out of a hole in reverse). You can break anything if you try hard enough but a little sense goes a long way to keeping your trailside repairs to a minimum.

[4.56-FX4]

From what I have read, the rear has 32 spline shafts, and the front has 30 spline inners, and 32 spline outers.

Axle width is comparable to a Ranger's, although slightly wider. Plenty of aftermarket support for 5 on 5 bolt pattern.



hick


Ok, you kinda lost me with the "inners/outers", but I think I understand a little. Sounds like they're a little stronger even than the ones I'd linked to. Plus, they're complete with brakes & everything, right?

What would I need to look for in addition to the axles? I'm sorta newbie at all this and I'm wondering if I'm gettin' in over my head. I'm thinkin'

- New rear leaf springs (not sure what to look for, though)
- I'd like to do coil springs in the front vice leaf. If that's a bad idea, then let me know why. I've heard that you can get more travel out of coils than leaf springs... is that right? -- Also, not sure what to look for as far as coil springs.
- Will need new shocks, but I'm lost when it comes to knowing what lengths, etc, that I'd need.
- Driveshafts can/will be lengthened by the shop doing my swap for me if needed. I'm by no means smart enough or mechanically inclined enough to do it myself.
- Wheels (I'm thinkin' 17" wheels... 15" won't fit over those brakes, right)?

Also, I'm wondering if it's possible to get those same axles with an ARB or OX.

[Toreadorranger]

coils up front is a good idea. Most people who SAS with leafs do it purely because they thing its simpler to do. But Coils and a link suspension are much easier to get better peformance out of. If your going to have a shop do the SAS for you. Id look into having them build you a set of axles. You could get some junkyard Dana 60's and have them rebuilt by the shop and it would prolly be cheaper then having a custom set built.

[hitech_hick]

. You could get some junkyard Dana 60's and have them rebuilt by the shop and it would prolly be cheaper then having a custom set built.

I have yet to see a set of junkyard 60's built for less that $5,000. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but if so it is not counting the labor (i.e. you built them completely yourself).



hick

[Toreadorranger]

I have yet to see a set of junkyard 60's built for less that $5,000. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but if so it is not counting the labor (i.e. you built them completely yourself).



hick

5k is alot less then the 4k and 6k each he was qouted. and he doenst need to go all out. A junkyard 60 with new bearings a seals with 35 spline outers and hubs. Then a rear 60 with 35 spline shafts and disks.

[Toreadorranger]

Or even a Rear D70 and all he has to add is disk breaks as most Ford rear 70's are 35 spline already.

[4.56-FX4]

The hard part for me is that I live on Guam and there isn't an abundance of spare axles around here like there are in the States. I'm sure there might be one or two every now and then, but it's not like I can just get up one day, go down to the junkyard and pick from the selection.

[mhughes165]

im sure theres prolly some wrecked 80's f-350's in the junkyards by you, thye had 60 fronts adn 60 rears...well some had the sterling in the back but the sterling is still a strong rear aswell

[4.56-FX4]

Maybe.

What years exactly do I want to look for?

[4.56-FX4]

Ok, let's skip ahead a little.

After I decide on axles, find some, purchase them, etc., where do I get springs/shocks? What do I need to take into consideration when picking them?

What determines how high I lift the truck? Is that simply determined by the springs I get for it?

As I told you, I'm lost here really. I'm trying to learn as much as I can, but I've never done this before.

[mhughes165]

ideally, you going to want to canabalize as much of the truck as u can, and really any f-350 will work aslong as its disc brakes on the front. you will in many cases be able to run the springs from the donor truck if u are good at the fabrication work

[Toreadorranger]

I think your best option as of right now is since you said a shop would be doing the work is to talk to them. Have them get a couple quotes together for different stuff like building axles and doing the SAS with coils vs leafs, ect. We can tell you all sorts of stuff but if your not doing the work your dependant on the shops skills and abilities.

[4.56-FX4]

I'm confident that the shop can do about whatever I ask them. You should see some of the stuff that comes outta that place. I'll see if I can get some pics to post up here.

As far as using the springs from the donor, wouldn't the springs from an F350 be WAY too stiff for a Ranger?

[4.56-FX4]

Check out this thread. There's alot of stuff in there.

http://www.dragguam.com/dragboard/showthread.php?t=94&highlight=GFAB

[chico4554]

if you are gonna have a shop do your sas, be prepared to pay for it. I would say run it the way you have it now. Try to do all you can yourself when you do a sas one day.

[4.56-FX4]

What's a good estimate for the labor for an SAS?

A shop here quoted me $650 for labor if I supply all parts.

I just don't know what to expect once I get into it. If I had a list of parts that I need to buy that I could know before I go into it, then I'd probably be good, but I hate to think of getting balls deep into an SAS and having part after part come up that I "need".

[hitech_hick]

What's a good estimate for the labor for an SAS?

A shop here quoted me $650 for labor if I supply all parts.

I just don't know what to expect once I get into it. If I had a list of parts that I need to buy that I could know before I go into it, then I'd probably be good, but I hate to think of getting balls deep into an SAS and having part after part come up that I "need".

$650 for labor? Sounds cheap to me. That's only what, 10 hours? As for parts, depends on what you want to do for the suspension.



hick

[4.56-FX4]

$650 for labor? Sounds cheap to me. That's only what, 10 hours? As for parts, depends on what you want to do for the suspension.



hick

I was thinkin' the same thing. I trust the work this shop does, though, so I think that'd be a good deal.

[brizonco]

if you are running up to 37's the dana 44 wont break unless you have lockers and a lead foot any bigger than that you are looking for trouble. i did an sas on my full size bronco a couple of years ago and ran it with 36''s for a long time and never broke a thing even with a locker. i then went up to 39.5s and got about 3 or 4 trips out of it untill i snaped the drivers inner and stub shaft. i have since then decided to put the dana 44 in my ranger and i just purchased a dana 60 out of a 91 f 350 for $700. as far as installing it i would save that $650 and buy some alloy shafts and install it your self. its really not that hard with the info on this and other sites.


heres a pic of my bronco


http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/567555/fullsize/picture-163.jpg

[4.56-FX4]

brizonco, I'd love to be able to do the SAS myself, but I'm not even close to being that mechanically inclined. I've heard that it's difficult to get the steering right and I'm afraid that I'd start it and get something screwed up and have to take it in to be finished anyway. That and the shop'd probably have it done in 1/2 the time.

FWIW, if I do this, I'm thinkin' of those Rubicon D44's that were posted above. I'd probably run IROK 36x13.5's on them. Since they're selectable lockers and I'd only have to lock up when needed, I'd think I'd get plenty of life out of those 44's, right?

Is there anywhere on the 'net that I can find info as far as a semi-complete parts list? At least all the major parts that I'd need to do it? As I said, I'm just afraid of getting into it and being blindsided by a bunch of "needed" parts.

[Woods-Rider]

I would check to make sure the shop understood what you wanted when they gave you that quote before you take it in and end up paying way more. If that's all it would cost then it's a steal!