d44 confusion

[dude772]

Im just trying to wrap my head around this front axle thing. Im gettin ready to cut the axle and narrow it, but im a little confused on somethings.

If i give the truck lots of lift while im doing this, wont the axle kind of rotate. By rotate i mean the caster angle will change? is this something i need to worry about? Or am I just overthinking a little too much?

When welding the end of the tube back on after narrowing the axle is there a chance that it wont end up square on the tube and mess everything up?

I asked on the old forum but i forget now. Which side of the axle can you take 6" off of and get a stock length shaft? I assume the passengers side, but im not 100%

[hitech_hick]

Im just trying to wrap my head around this front axle thing. Im gettin ready to cut the axle and narrow it, but im a little confused on somethings.

If i give the truck lots of lift while im doing this, wont the axle kind of rotate. By rotate i mean the caster angle will change? is this something i need to worry about? Or am I just overthinking a little too much?
No, you are not over-thinking this. If you are going through all of the trouble to cut and narrow the axle, you should make sure that the pinion angle is where you want it. If you try to rotate the pinion up or down, you need the inner C's to rotate the same number of degrees in the opposite direction to compensate. How much lift are you planning on running, is the axle high pinion or low pinion? These are all factors to consider.

When welding the end of the tube back on after narrowing the axle is there a chance that it wont end up square on the tube and mess everything up?

I asked on the old forum but i forget now. Which side of the axle can you take 6" off of and get a stock length shaft? I assume the passengers side, but im not 100%
Would be better if someone else answered this. Again, you never stated if the axle was driver or passenger drop.



hick

[dude772]

No, you are not over-thinking this. If you are going through all of the trouble to cut and narrow the axle, you should make sure that the pinion angle is where you want it. If you try to rotate the pinion up or down, you need the inner C's to rotate the same number of degrees in the opposite direction to compensate. How much lift are you planning on running, is the axle high pinion or low pinion? These are all factors to consider.

Would be better if someone else answered this. Again, you never stated if the axle was driver or passenger drop.
hick

Its a high pinion supposidly from a 77 f150, i dont know what you mean driver or passenger drop. I want 6 - 8" of lift, ive been breaking my brain on this all day. Mostly because i cant find any of the info that i need, like whats the optimum caster angle? which side do i trim 6" from? Am I better off narrowing it and welding the inner C in the same angle, or modifying it?

I really need to go to where my truck is and take some measurements:icon_confused:

[hitech_hick]

If it's out of a '77 F150, then it's a drivers drop (meaning that the differential is on the drivers side of the vehicle. On 6 to 8 inches of lift, you shouldn't have to rotate the pinion angle. What precisely is your goal for narrowing this axle? With 6 to 8 inches of lift, I would think that you would want your truck to have a wider stance. A full width axle with factory back spacing tracks about the width as a narrowed axle with dished out rims. Not to mention that your ball joints and wheel bearings will appreciate it more.



hick

[dude772]

Because i want to have close to the factory width, and with the full width and stock rims its just too wide for my liking, plus i think i might have trouble with the law and the tires sticking that far out from the fenders.

[dude772]

ok, im to the point where i want to start cutting this thing... do i shortten the passengers side?

[dude772]

to answer my own question in case anyone else searches for this... i found this on explorerforum.com posted by dannyboy...


The first step was to cut down the full width axle. The reason I used the full width and chopped it down was because you get a high pinion (reverse rotation) with this style opposed to the low pinion found on early broncos. This gives you better clearance over obstacles as well as a better driveline angle. One must be precise and have a good idea of what this entails but I felt that I was up for the challenge. I found that the EB (early bronco) axle was just about 6" narrower on the passenger side and have had various 4 wheel shops give me conflicting stories about whether the drivers side is the same on F150 and EB or different. I will always order shafts for "79 F150 drivers side, "77 Bronco pass side and be sure I've got it right.

[Rulebreaker]

Some people set the pinion angle where they want and then knock the knuckles off the end's of the tubes and re weld them on to correct the caster or camber I always get the two confused. This will allow you to not use a radius arm drop bracket and still have a streetable truck. Just a thought. i plan on doing this to my early Bronco some day. RB

[dude772]

Ok, i got the weld holding the end of the axel ground and knocked off the knuckle on the end. But now what i am concerned about is getting the whacha-ma-call em things back on in the same spot... the triangle things that the rubber bushing for the radius arms go on.

... these things...
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/dude772/Build/DSC00373.jpg

anyone have any ideas?

[Rulebreaker]

Ok, i got the weld holding the end of the axel ground and knocked off the knuckle on the end. But now what i am concerned about is getting the whacha-ma-call em things back on in the same spot... the triangle things that the rubber bushing for the radius arms go on.

... these things...
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/dude772/Build/DSC00373.jpg

anyone have any ideas?

They are called C wedges and some are welded on and others are a cast piece that goes over the tube. Looks like you have the cast one witch I think is a 1979 axle. RB

[Mutant Pony]

Some people set the pinion angle where they want and then knock the knuckles off the end's of the tubes and re weld them on to correct the caster or camber I always get the two confused. This will allow you to not use a radius arm drop bracket and still have a streetable truck. Just a thought. i plan on doing this to my early Bronco some day. RB

My instructor in school taught me to think of a caster as in the front tire of a grocery cart (caster). The only other ball joint adjustment is camber. If you think of it that way it is easy to remember and it takes all the confusion out of the equation.
You used to be able to buy the "c" bushings That were degree'd in 2deg increments to 8deg. I have a set of 4deg and a set of 6deg.

[dude772]

They are definitly welded on there and can be cut off, ive started to, but im a little concerned with lining them up later, does it have to be dead nuts exactly where it was before? Can they be off a little bit?

[Toreadorranger]

those arent welded, that sure looks like one cast peice to me

[dude772]

those arent welded, that sure looks like one cast peice to me

I'll take a picture of the weld ground out tomorrow if the rains stopped.

Just need to know how to line it up

[Rulebreaker]

I'll take a picture of the weld ground out tomorrow if the rains stopped.

Just need to know how to line it up

If it were me I would put the truck up on stands making sure it's level. Bolt the axle in using the DS arm and make sure it's level. Then assemble the PS arm and tack weld them, then tear it apart and finish welding it.

[Toreadorranger]

I'll take a picture of the weld ground out tomorrow if the rains stopped.

Just need to know how to line it up

I think your confused on what we mean by welded. Those look to be the cast peice that has no tube underneath it, just cause they are welded to a peice of tube is not what we mean by welded. the Axles with welded wedges have the two triangle peices directly welded to the axle tube.

[Rulebreaker]

Here is a welded axle wedge
http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/16463/2335329670040927262S500x500Q85.jpg

[Toreadorranger]

Here is a welded axle wedge
http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/16463/2335329670040927262S500x500Q85.jpg

nice find, I was trying to find one to show him but I couldnt find any.

[Rulebreaker]

nice find, I was trying to find one to show him but I couldnt find any.
I was looking online for one when It hit me there was one lying in the driveway that I've been tripping over. RB

[Toreadorranger]

I was looking online for one when It hit me there was one lying in the driveway that I've been tripping over. RB

well that is cheating...:icon_rofl:

[dude772]

If it were me I would put the truck up on stands making sure it's level. Bolt the axle in using the DS arm and make sure it's level. Then assemble the PS arm and tack weld them, then tear it apart and finish welding it.

That might be a problem, because i need the front suspension on there to roll the frame to the body, and i would rather do the engine swap before the body goes on.

I guess im screwed Untill I get some money to finish other things first.

I think your confused on what we mean by welded. Those look to be the cast peice that has no tube underneath it, just cause they are welded to a peice of tube is not what we mean by welded. the Axles with welded wedges have the two triangle peices directly welded to the axle tube.

That a whole different story then. I guess i will see what happens.