Picking an Subwoofer amp

[irondragon013]

I am laying plans to put a 10 in Sub in my extended cab. I am going to build the box myself. I have the design made up after a lot of math and changing numbers. It is a sealed box and I figured it has around 1.2 cubic ft inner volume without anything in it. It fits where I want it to behind the drivers seat facing forward and can still be covered by the pull over cover. The sub I plan on getting is a Kicker C10-4.

Link: http://bsless.com/c10-4.html

I just need help picking an amp to go with this. My goal is a system is decent sound with a bit of a kick. I don't want to pay more then 200 for the amp. I just don't understand all the numbers that are involved. This is not an imediate project and won't happen for at least a couple of months. I just like to plan ahead:icon_twisted:

Steven

[dburton07]

i was told to pick an amp that matches your subs specs, like if it runs 150w rms at 4 ohms, get a 1 channel amp that does the same (150w rms @ 4ohms). i could be wrong, but this is what ive been told.

this amp looks like it would work good, and its in your price range. i'm sure you could find it cheaper too.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=2068ZX3001&tp=115

[irondragon013]

Thanks, that was what I was figuring. That was actually the amp I have been looking at but wasn't sure if it was the right one. Ebay has them for about half that but I hate buying off of there.

[irondragon013]

One more question. Are refurbished amps trustworthy?

[Pistons23]

heres a nice rockford 2 channel. just bridge it and use as a 1 channel
http://www.amazon.com/PUNCH-P325-2-2-CHANNEL-WATT-AMPLIFIER/dp/B000VOT86W/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1203813417&sr=1-29

here are the specs
80W x 2 @ 4-Ohms RMS
160W x 2 @ 2-Ohms RMS
325W x 1 @ 4-Ohms bridged RMS

heres what RF site says
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=6&family_id=20&item_id=106459&locale=en_US

not bad for $99.99+shipping

[Pistons23]

that amp would push this sub very well
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=30

its $90+free shipping
you get a 5year warranty with it too.

for some reason the sites messed up and says the power handling is 300-600 but its really 100-400. elemental designs recomended ideal sealed box size is .5cf. thats less than half of the one you were planning on building. heres a good place to find out the volume of the box you plan to build:
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

just find the right calculator on that site for the type of box your building

[irondragon013]

What are the specs on the Elemental designs sub(max watts, RMS, and Ohms)? I'm open to any other suggestions. As I mentioned this is a ways off so I can always change my plans. Also what does bridging involve? (sorry I'm new to all of this)

Steven

[Pistons23]

you can get the elemental designs 11kv.2 sub in either a dual 2 or dual 4 ohms. dual 2 will allow you to wire it for a 4ohm or a 1ohm load. dual 4 will allow you to wire it for a 8ohm or 2ohm load. say your amp puts out 200 watts at 4ohms. youd want a dual 2ohms sub to get a 4ohm load. now lets say that same amp puts out 400 at 2ohms. youd want a dual 4ohm sub to achieve a 2ohm load. the rms is a minimum of 100watts and a max of 400.

bridging is simple. lets use a 2 channel amp as an example. theres channels a and b. channel a has a + and a - terminal. channel b has a + and a - terminal. to bridge channels a and b, you take the + speaker wire and insert in channel a's + terminal. then put your - speaker wire in channel b's - terminal.

[irondragon013]

So if I got the elemental design sub and the RF amp I would bridge the amp and wire the dual 2 ohm voice coils in series? I guess I have to design a smaller box also.

[Pistons23]

yes you would pick a dual 2ohm sub to get the bridged 4ohm load of that rf amp.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/wiring.php

you would wire your sub like the diagram on the right. + of one voice coil to the - of the other. then take the remaining + to the + amp terminal. do the same for the remaining - terminal.

[irondragon013]

Now for HU and speaker stuff. Open to other options within reason.

HU:
http://bsless.com/dehp2900mp.html

Speaker for stock locations:
http://bsless.com/tsa6881r.html

I see that some guys have 6x9's in their trucks. How hard is it to get them to fit? If it isn't hard I may just use the cheap sony explode system from my car. It has 2 6.5's and 2 6x9's. It sounds good for a $100 system from walmart. Parents got it for me for christmas a while back. Not sure if it has pre outs or not.

[Pistons23]

that deck will work fine. i have the deh3900 and have no problems with it. as far as those speakers, i have no idea. ive never heard them.

so what did you end up going with amp/sub wise?

[irondragon013]

Planning on going with the RF amp with the ED 11kv.2. I plan on picking things up one at a time and build the box and put the sub and amp in after everything else. The truck just needs some work finished on it to get it running. I think I may just go with some less expensive speakers. The HU will be the first thing I get. Then the 6x8's, and last the sub. Figure the total cost will be 400-450. Depending on the speakers and shipping costs.

[Pistons23]

heres a new version of that deck
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-AiD44EuFOLX/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=130DEH2000

[V8RangerBoy]

Pioneer HU's are great unless you listen to alot of CD's. Doesn't take long before they quit spitting them out. I really liked all of the features my DEH6800 had though. Did everything I wanted and more, until it quit ejecting. Alpine makes an excellent head. Not the fanciest displays out there, but they're bulletproof.

Pioneer speakers are awesome. I was glad to see them still in the truck when the rest of my stereo got stolen. Really clear, really loud, and they look really, really good.

Boss makes an EXCELLENT amp for the money. Bigger power, better signal-noise ratio than any Rockford/Kenwood/Alpine/etc can come close to for the money. Both 2-channel Rockford's I've owned have gone dead on one channel after a while, and they run hotter than hell - needless to say, I wasn't impressed at all. Haven't had a single problem with the Boss amp I've had.

I have the GT580 1000W driving a Kicker 10" L7, and it out-thumps the twin 12" Rockfords (ported enclosures)/Rockford Anniversary edition amp combo I had by a mile. It's hardly ever even warm, and has MORE than enough power than I can handle listening to. The sub is rated to 1200W max - I think I've used about 400W on a loud day.

[irondragon013]

Well boss amps have a good range of amps in the $100 and under. It would be nice to have a monoblock to simplify wiring. The power ratings don't seem bad either. Though I think I still want to get a Kicker sub. Everything I have read on them says they can take most anything you throw at them. Guess I have some more researching to do. No plans are ever set in stone.

[V8RangerBoy]

It only takes an extra 2" of wire to turn a bridgable 2-channel into a mono, so don't get turned away by a 2-channel. Just make sure it's bridgable if that's what you're planning to do.

Honestly, I've never heard a louder sub before for what little room it takes up. It's every bit as loud as 2x 12's and I still have most of my backseat. It's super-loud on the long rumbles and hits extremely crisp in the fast stuff. It also looks WAY cooler than pretty much any other sub too. I started with my amp gain up about halfway when I first installed the sub, and over time it just gets louder and louder as it breaks in. I've turned the gain clear down to about 1/4 on the amp.

Here's the first setup I had. Dual Rockford 12's, the 900W Anniversary amp, and Godzilla independent ported boxes.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2479000-2479999/2479061_11_full.jpg

Then those got stolen right out of a freakin' parking garage. I barely got them in taking the front seats out, so I haven't a clue how they managed to get the things out in one piece. Thankfully one amp channel was shot, the head had quit spitting CD's, and one sub cone was damaged. They really didn't get much in the steal. Replaced them with this Kicker 10" L7 Solobaric and Boss GT580 1000W amp in a sealed enclosure. Love it. And, obviously, I can put stuff in the backseat again.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2479000-2479999/2479061_67_full.jpg

Excuse the Taco Bell and random tools! :headbang:

[irondragon013]

That set up looks nice. I would love to go with an 10in L7:drool: but I could only afford it if I got it off ebay or find a refurbished unit. the ebay ones are probably refurbished anyway. What size is your box? Looks a little shy of 1 cu.ft. The box I want to build has to be able to be cover by the pull cover in the back. Also I plan on putting it behind the divers seat or maybe I'll put it in the center. I may just put the sub off a little longer and get the L7. Is your L7 a DVC 2 or 4. Just wondering because if I get the L7 then I will probably go with the same amp you have. I'll do a draw up of a box that fits the Kicker specs for a sealed box. Should leave a lot of space in the back.

[V8RangerBoy]

The sub is the 2-ohm DVC, wired in series to get 4ohms to match the amp. The box I got from SonicElectronix - it was $30 shipped and everything. It's like .88cu I'm pretty sure. I'll be moving mine over behind the driver's seat so that I can put the passenger jumpseat back in the back. The sub is DEFINITELY worth the money. I love it to death.

[Pistons23]

Honestly, I've never heard a louder sub before for what little room it takes up. It's every bit as loud as 2x 12's and I still have most of my backseat. It's super-loud on the long rumbles and hits extremely crisp in the fast stuff. It also looks WAY cooler than pretty much any other sub too. I started with my amp gain up about halfway when I first installed the sub, and over time it just gets louder and louder as it breaks in. I've turned the gain clear down to about 1/4 on the amp.





sounds like you dont know how to properly set the gain. you dont just turn it up and down like a volume knob. youre supposed to set it so it matches the voltage coming from your deck. ill give you an example. here are my amp specs:
4x65@4ohms
4x100@2ohms
2x150@4ohms

on my front channels im running a component set at 2 ohms. thats 100 watts a channel. now id multiply 100(watts) by 2(ohms) which gives me 200. then you find the squareroot of 200 which is 14.14. 14.14 is the voltage i need to set the gains for those channels. that may be why youve had problems with rf amps. here a page where you can read up:

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27819&highlight=tutorial

[V8RangerBoy]

sounds like you dont know how to properly set the gain. you dont just turn it up and down like a volume knob. youre supposed to set it so it matches the voltage coming from your deck. ill give you an example. here are my amp specs:
4x65@4ohms
4x100@2ohms
2x150@4ohms

on my front channels im running a component set at 2 ohms. thats 100 watts a channel. now id multiply 100(watts) by 2(ohms) which gives me 200. then you find the squareroot of 200 which is 14.14. 14.14 is the voltage i need to set the gains for those channels. that may be why youve had problems with rf amps. here a page where you can read up:

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27819&highlight=tutorial

As is how I started. But when the sub was far louder than the rest of the speaker output and all I could hear was huge bass, I turned it down.

[irondragon013]

Here is the list of the set up I think I will go with:

Head unit:
Pioneer DEH-2000MP
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10753_Pioneer+DEH-2000MP.html
Plan on dumping most of my mp3's on 1 or 2 cds

Speakers:
Pioneer TS-A6871R 6x8
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6621_Pioneer+TS-A6871R.html

Sub:
Kicker Solo-Baric L5 10" 2ohm DVC:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6504_--+SPECIAL+--+Kicker+06S10L52+Solo-Baric+L5+Series.html
I decided I don't need all the power the L7 has.

Amp:
Boss CX1100M:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11591_Boss+CX1100M.html
There may be other amp options but this seems to fit best.

All in all it will cost me around $450 with the shipping costs. The HU and speakers first and then I'll get the sub and amp.

Thanks for all the help,
Steven

[irondragon013]

I thought of a couple more questions came up and I can't find the answers when I look for them.

Do I need a capacitor?

I think I will need a new battery at least. Which one should I get?

What gauge wire should I use for the amp to sub connection?
I was thinking 12 gauge.

[Pistons23]

nope, dont need a capacitor. your stock battery should be fine also. ive seen systems with about 1500 watts on their stock batteries. no need to fix a problem that hasnt arrised yet. if you even do have a problem id go for the big 3 first, then a new battery and followed by a HO alternator. but i seriously doubt youll have a problem.

im not very familiar with boss amps, so im not sure if theyll put out their rated power. if it does put out 500 watts id go for a 4awg kit. if you know for a fact it wont put out more than 400 then you can get away with an 8awg. 10 and 12awg is just way too small.

[07rangersport]

Those pioneer speakers will be fine. don't expect any bass out them though. for the best sound out of those speakers, put them on their own amp.

[irondragon013]

Those pioneer speakers will be fine. don't expect any bass out them though. for the best sound out of those speakers, put them on their own amp.

Well the whole reason for the sub is to make bass. Though I might amp them latter. I realize now that I want the bass that a sub puts out. I am tempted to try this box to assist in the bass production:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7500_Sonic+Sub+Box-+1SVK10.html

It will maximize the room behind the driver's seat and if I mount it right I should be able to have the amp on the floor under it. I plan on raising it up to level of that shelf or whatever it is in the back. Does anybody know why that is there anyways?

I kind of want to see how it compares to my friend's Dual Audio 1100w Bandpass.

[Pistons23]

if your gonna go with that slot ported box make sure your amp has a subsonic filter or run an inline ssf between the amp and the sub

[irondragon013]

Well scratch the ported box. I redid the measurements and it won't fit. I think I'll just stick to building my own sealed box. I have a few different ideas and need to decide what will work and look best. The problem is is that I keep coming up with other designs and how they will mount. Also I am going with the dual 4 ohm voice coil wired in parallel so I can get the amp into its 2 ohm power range. On another note I have been beating the snot out of the sony explode stock location speakers with Bass Mechanic Cds. Man I think I may go deaf before those speakers go out. Not bad for 2 6.5s and 2 6x9s. I may say the looks I get are classic though I turn it down at stop lights. A beat up 89 accord bumping lol. Still the trans in the truck is taking longer then expected. I cant wait to start getting the old(is 93 considered old now?) farm truck into shape.