View Full Version : I got some dumb questions
what kind of transfer case would you have to run if your front axle was offset to the driver side and the rear axle was off set to the pass side?
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/bdab1/untitled.jpg
Ok the desired set up is in black, the optional is that purplish color (was supposed to be red)
Is there a Transfer case that will give me my desired set up? if not, can a fixed yoke and a CV style joint be used for the optional?
Sevensecondsuv
08-24-2007, 10:02 PM
What, are you trying to put a front axle in the rear? For 4-wheel steering or what? Sounds kind of interesting...
If you do that, beef up your transmission and engine mounts.
You'll be torquing the whole drivetrain on take-off, a LOT more than you would with a centered rear driveshaft.
What, are you trying to put a front axle in the rear? For 4-wheel steering or what? Sounds kind of interesting...
kinda .......... I don't want to give it away yet, may not be able to get the parts together. If it was a matter of just using a front axle in the back I would just use a Ford D60 in the back to get the offset to pass side and a GM D60 in the front to get the offset to the pass side and use a spicer model 18 or even my stock yota T-case. The axle I want to use front and back is only available as a driverside offset and there is no substitute front axle to put drop on the pass. side.
My next question, ofcource, whats the best ratio to set up the rear steering.
Loanranger
08-24-2007, 10:51 PM
Crazy man. To answer your offset rear dif question, guys do it all the time in samurais running toyota axles, or at least they did before everybody started making the cut down versions. As for the transfercase with a ds front and a ps rear, I'm at a loss.
Mutant Pony
08-24-2007, 10:52 PM
I've always said "the only dumb question is one that isn't asked"
I don't have an answer though.
If you have a heavy equipment salvage yard in your area, you might try there. I've. seen something like that before, I just don't remember what.
Wicked_Sludge
08-25-2007, 09:40 PM
theres a mid 90's chevy 1500 somewhere around here locally that is four steer. the rear was full hydro (only option really). i had a bunch of pics of it but my lady accidentally deleted them. next time i see it ill try to get some more (he only brings it out a few times a year for car shows.)
I don't really want to go full hydro, I don't really trust it, and I don't think it would work that well with an articulated rear axle. I have seen set-ups for 5 axle dump trucks with 2 steering axles and it was a mechanical linkage. these are 1:1 ratio though, I was thinking 4:1 front to back would be better for a tippy trail rig that occasionally sees the street.
Wicked_Sludge
08-25-2007, 11:55 PM
the good thing about full hydro is you can turn off the rear axle anytime you want (and the hydraulics will "lock" it). you could also create some type of mechanical lock if you dont trust the hydro going down the highway (if you blow a hose on the trail, no biggie, right?).
running a mechanical linkage all the way from the front of a truck, making a u-turn and running it back to the rear axle doesnt sound any safer or easier then full hydro (which lots of 4x4'ers run on the front with no problems), to me..but maybe thats just me.
Loanranger
08-26-2007, 12:03 AM
I don't really want to go full hydro, I don't really trust it, and I don't think it would work that well with an articulated rear axle. I have seen set-ups for 5 axle dump trucks with 2 steering axles and it was a mechanical linkage. these are 1:1 ratio though, I was thinking 4:1 front to back would be better for a tippy trail rig that occasionally sees the street.
If you're looking for a linkage to the rear, I would think something along the lines of a straight axle toyota or old dodge steering setup would be your ticket, with the draglink being parallel with the framerail. This would be quite the tough setup though to run from the front to rear. In my oppinion, the full hydro would be the best route for steering the rear axle, just mount the ram to the housing. You wouldn't have any problems this way with an articulated axle, this is the way the majority of the serious rockcrawlers and monster trucks run rear steer. Another option, though I don't know how strong it would be, would be to use one of the new Denali rear axles with its electronic rear steer.
Another option, though I don't know how strong it would be, would be to use one of the new Denali rear axles with its electronic rear steer.
I thought of that. and it would solve my t-case problem. but thats a straight axle, and really difficult to get, I could build my whole set up for that axle costs around here.
I am not completely opposed to hydro. My problem with it is getting it back to center before turning it off and locking it.
If I do this, I will be using a modified K-Link front and back. so I guess full hydro could work, but I would need a serious steering box and power steering pump up-grade.
Wicked....... or anybody else for tat matter ........ if you have guessed what I am trying to do, then PM me instead of posting it.
Can sombody tell me why I couldn't use a model 18 behind (both outputs are to the pass side) a doubled 13-54? Then i would have a driver side drop for the front and a pass side drop for the back...... I could also shift the rear case into neutral and disengage the rear.
Loanranger
08-26-2007, 02:39 PM
Can sombody tell me why I couldn't use a model 18 behind (both outputs are to the pass side) a doubled 13-54? Then i would have a driver side drop for the front and a pass side drop for the back...... I could also shift the rear case into neutral and disengage the rear.
If you're saying what I think you're saying, you want to run the front driveline off the 1354 and the rear driveline off the 18? You're gearing would be all messed up, because you'd be running the front off just the 1354 gearing, and the rear off both the 1354 and 18 gearing. And if the 1354 were doubled, you'd just be compounding the problem.
Loanranger
08-26-2007, 02:41 PM
but thats a straight axle.
????
Wicked_Sludge
08-26-2007, 02:42 PM
as long as both cases were in high range (1:1 ratio), the drivelines would spin at the same speed. the doubler case would go between the tranny and 1354, so it would change the ratio to both cases.
If you're saying what I think you're saying, you want to run the front driveline off the 1354 and the rear driveline off the 18? You're gearing would be all messed up, because you'd be running the front off just the 1354 gearing, and the rear off both the 1354 and 18 gearing. And if the 1354 were doubled, you'd just be compounding the problem.
the model 18 is 1:1 in high range. When i put it in, just leave in high range and disable the range selector. the other stick with it is the 2wd - N - 4wd lever, this is the one I would hook up.
what your saying doesn't apply. At 1:1 the output will always turn the same RPM as the input.
Edit: I would rather use a sling box to get the passenger side rear output and it would simplify everything, but a 1:1 sling box would cost around $2000 and I can get a fleet of junkyard jeep model 18 for that. The idea is to use the model 18 as a sling box. leave it in hi range so it will be 1:1 at all times (infact, some 18s didn't have a low range). Both cases don't need to be 1:1, just the rear case.
That quadra steer axle in the denali is a straight axle (like a front D60 except the diff is centered) and I believe its a D60 ....... really hard to get here and if you do find it, it must be gold plated or something.
a straight axle does not fit my potential project.
Loanranger
08-28-2007, 11:20 PM
the model 18 is 1:1 in high range. When i put it in, just leave in high range and disable the range selector. the other stick with it is the 2wd - N - 4wd lever, this is the one I would hook up.
what your saying doesn't apply. At 1:1 the output will always turn the same RPM as the input.
Edit: I would rather use a sling box to get the passenger side rear output and it would simplify everything, but a 1:1 sling box would cost around $2000 and I can get a fleet of junkyard jeep model 18 for that. The idea is to use the model 18 as a sling box. leave it in hi range so it will be 1:1 at all times (infact, some 18s didn't have a low range). Both cases don't need to be 1:1, just the rear case.
That quadra steer axle in the denali is a straight axle (like a front D60 except the diff is centered) and I believe its a D60 ....... really hard to get here and if you do find it, it must be gold plated or something.
a straight axle does not fit my potential project.
Now I see where you're coming from, You didn't mention anything about leaving the 18 in high range. (Nor do I even think about any box being in high range when you're talking about wheeling)
You're terminology on the straight axle part still leaves me puzzled, are you intending to use ifs or ttb front and rear?
at the risk of being flamed........ I am thinking running a D50 TTB in the rear. These axles are a dime a dozen here and most are in good shape (left overs from SAS) and Bronco Graveyard has a good enough selection of parts for it.......... I priced a denali quadrasteer axle and it was $1250 with 130,000 miles on it.
Loanranger
08-29-2007, 12:27 AM
Nice! Quite the project, but I think it would be worthwhile in the longrun if you could figure out how to do it. Definately unique. The only other thing I could come up with for the transfercase idea would be a T-136-27 out of a 2.5 ton, which is divorced and rather like the LJ10 and LJ20 box, which the input comes in the top, and both outputs are directly below this and inline with eachother. Then, you could use divorced 205s front and rear, using only the inputs and rear outputs (the front box would be backwards) though this would probably range around the same price as your slingbox. Good luck in your ventures.
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