top radiator hose collasping/blown head gasket are they related?

[mrmeathead]

I have a 1995 Ford Ranger 3.0, V6 with 142,000 miles on it. Last Fall I noticed the top raidiator hose pulsing/collasping when the truck is warmed up but goes back to normal after the engine has cooled down. Now that winter is here I haven't heard the "thumping" sound that it used to make when it would start to collaspe. I was planning on replacing both the hose and thermastat (sp) at this time of the year (got year end bonus). I have it now at the mechanatic's and am told that my head gasket is blown?! and that it is going to cost upwards of $3,000! (am getting the front right ball joint replaced too).

Is this a true per-curser of head gasket problems? or am I getting duped because I am female. Currently there is no loss of power, white smoke, bad smells, heater works fine, not overheating, etc. I also live in Alaska so I would notice heater issues.

Thanks,
Teresa

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

Sounds more like an air pocket trapped in the cooling system to me....

 

[Rearanger]

(got year end bonus). I have it now at the mechanatic's and am told that my head gasket is blown?! and that it is going to cost upwards of $3,000!

Sounds like your mechanic heard about your year end bonus as well. For $3k I'd get a second (or third) opinion. In Alaska, depending on where you live, that may be a problem. Certainly in Anchorage there should be lots of options.

Currently there is no loss of power, white smoke, bad smells, heater works fine, not overheating, etc. I also live in Alaska so I would notice heater issues.

Were(are) you loosing coolant that needs to be topped up? Does the oil look milky when you check the level? Is the oil level changing? Any rough idle, missing from the engine? Is coolant discolored? Did the mechanic show you a compression test result? [/QUOTE]

I'd do the rad hose/thermostat, coolant change until you get a better idea of HG story to see if it's fairy tale or non-fiction.

 

[Earl43P]

http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/head_gasket_or_combustion_leak_test.htm

To do the test, add the blue detector fluid to the (block-tester) plastic container according to the directions, and place it onto the radiator filler neck. The squeeze bulb is placed on top of the reservoir and squeezed repeatedly (Some block testers, have a tube that connects to a vacuum line instead of a squeeze bulb). Squeezing the bulb will draw air from the radiator through the test fluid. Block tester fluid is normally blue. Exhaust gases in the cooling system will change the color of the fluid to yellow, indicating a combustion leak. If the fluid remains blue, exhaust gases were not present during the test.

This is not very expensive.

 

[adsm08]

While it is not the most common of tell-tales I can see that being something a blown head gasket could do.

I would do as Earl suggested with the block tester, and if you get a positive result start pulling spark plugs to see which one has been steam-cleaned.

 

[Angie]

I have it now at the mechanatic's and am told that my head gasket is blown?! and that it is going to cost upwards of $3,000!

WOW 3k for a headgasket.... you know what kinda newer truck you can buy for that kind of cash??

get a second opinion.

did you say you are NOT getting white smoke or you are?

water pump ok?

 

[mrmeathead]

Wow, thanks for the advice. I am getting a second opinion on Wed. Sadly I have to wait that late because of the Holiday, and am turning in the rental car on Tuesday. I personally have not checked any fluid levels or such; I only have the mechanic’s advice to go by. No there has been NOT been any drop in engine power, white smoke, etc. Everything has been driving fine. My right front wheel area is making a grinding noise, (the other reason I brought the truck in). Told him to replace the C/V joint and was told that it is actually the BALL joint that needs replacing. That and the head gasket is where the $3k comes from. Am deffo going to ask to see his proof of current diagnostic.
Will update as I know more….
Teresa

 

[RonD]

With engine cold, remove rad cap and overflow hose.
Get a plastic bag that is air tight, a balloon or latex glove works too.

Put bag over rad cap opening, use a rubber band to seal it around cap opening.

Start engine, put your finger over the overflow tube opening, watch bag, glove or balloon.
If it inflates you have a blown head gasket, if it doesn't then you don't.

A cooling system has no internal pressure until coolant heats up and expands, so a cold engine can not inflate the bag.

A blown head gasket means one of the cylinders is sucking in coolant as piston goes down, but not a lot since intake valve is open, on the combustion stroke the pressure of combustion is forced out through the same break in the gasket(the other down stroke of the piston), this forces "air"(exhaust gas) into the cooling system.
This is what would inflate the bag on a cold engine.
It might inflate the bag with coolant, "air" is coming into the cylinder head so is displacing coolant in the rad via the lower rad hose, upper hose is closed because t-stat is closed on a cold engine.

A Block Test is better, but not free , it uses a fluid that changes color if exhaust gases are detected in the cooling system "air", so if you get one of these drain a good 2 inches of coolant out of the rad before running the test.



Collapsing upper hose could just be a bad rad cap or dirty overflow container, cap is allowing coolant to go out into the overflow tank but is restricting flow from the tank back into the rad.
Dirty overflow tank does the same thing, debris in tank is pushed out of the way as coolant expands into tank, but is sucked into opening as coolant tries to return to rad.

In either case the lower pressure in the engines cooling system is trying to get some of the coolant back from the overflow tank and can't, lower pressure increases and you see a collapsing rad hose.

 

[Earl43P]

I tried to give RonD some Rep for that informative post right there ^.

Good stuff.

 

[mrmeathead]

I spoke with the orig mechanic this am. He told me that he came to the conclusion about the H.G. when he stuck some kinda of senser up my truck's tail pipe?? It doesn't sound like he did any other kind of testing.

I am going to pick up the truck on Wed am for the 2nd op and will give the new place all your suggestions.

 

[RonD]

I spoke with the orig mechanic this am. He told me that he came to the conclusion about the H.G. when he stuck some kinda of senser up my truck's tail pipe?? It doesn't sound like he did any other kind of testing.

I am going to pick up the truck on Wed am for the 2nd op and will give the new place all your suggestions.

Not sure testing tail pipe emissions would be conclusive for head gasket failure, especially in Alaska where I am sure there are fuel additives in all gasoline sold to prevent freezing.

Any shop should have a Block Tester , they cost about $40-$60, so we are not talking about an expensive test kit and it is reusable, fluid is about $10 and can test 4 to 6 cars, the block test would tell more about head gasket condition than the very expensive exhaust analyzer could.
So that part doesn't make much sense to me, like using a CAT scan to check for a hangnail, yea maybe you could see it on a scan but why not just look at the finger??


If you do change the t-stat make sure it has a "jiggle valve", I know that sounds hokey, lol, but it is a real thing, it is a hole in the t-stat plate that allows air to escape while refilling the cooling system, it can also act as a pressure relief for the upper rad hose to prevent collapsing.
It has a small metal pin that "jiggles" in the hole to prevent it from being clogged by debris in the cooling system, but there should be no debris.
If parts store doesn't have one with a "jiggle valve" you can just drill a 1/8" hole in the plate.
The t-stat should be installed with "hole" at the 12:00 position to get the most benefit of passing air out of the system during refill.

 

[basketranger]

when mine would not pass emissions test, (hi hydrocarbons), and finally got to strip her down, took heads to machine shop - wound up with cracked heads and two burnt valves. bottom line truck ran absolutely fine - only hint of a problem was fuel economy had dropped (in my case 3 mpg). all was determined by compression test.

 

[RonD]

when mine would not pass emissions test, (hi hydrocarbons), and finally got to strip her down, took heads to machine shop - wound up with cracked heads and two burnt valves. bottom line truck ran absolutely fine - only hint of a problem was fuel economy had dropped (in my case 3 mpg). all was determined by compression test.

Usually you would notice on and off "pinging" over a period of time before exhaust valves lost their seal(burnt valves) and/or the head started getting cracks, both problems can come from the same source, too hot in the combustion chamber chamber(cylinder).
Don't know which engine you have but this was a problem with some Ford engines and PCM(engine computer) settings, there have been a few recalls for free PCM software updates.

The "pinging" is caused by the PCM running too lean a mixture, that causes higher cylinder temps, as the temp goes up in the cylinder "pinging" occurs as fuel mixture ignites during compression instead of when spark is applied.
This doesn't cause cooling system to overheat, you might notice a slight increase on the gauge but nothing alarming.
"Pinging" on a fuel injected engine is almost always a sign of a fuel mixture problem, too lean a mixture, not octane level related, although running higher octane can reduce "pinging", it is not the root cause of the "pinging".
Higher octane just requires a higher temp to ignite.

Once exhaust valve loses it's seal unburned fuel is pushed out into the exhaust system during compression stroke, so high hydrocarbon readings occur on an exhaust gas test.
Also low compression readings on a compression test.