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how legit is this mod?


are they sayin what i think they are sayin ? i can put in bigger injectors from a stang and not have to retune with software/laptop. if so thats a great idea, i could use 20% more power from my 2.3. if that worked i probably would do other mods too to see how much i can get from a 4 banger. Ive never hot rodded a small motor before,but cou8ld be fun to try. Its like an addiction once you start you dont wanna stop.
 
20% more fuel does NOT mean 20% more power, not to mention the computer will correct for the fuel flow with the oxygen sensor. going up to the 15 from 14 would probably work fine

believe me, I tune engines a fair amount at work, I was tuning a 2.4L GM engine at work the other day, went from an air fuel ratio of 12.9:1 to 14:1 (with a cat, optimal is 14.7, without a cat you want to be around 12:1 for optimum power and around 14:1 for best emissions) and there was a whopping 3ftlb difference in torque at 4200rpm

the only way to make more fuel give you more power is to get more air in at the same time, which on the 2.3 means serious port work (or any port work would help)
 
20% more fuel does NOT mean 20% more power, not to mention the computer will correct for the fuel flow with the oxygen sensor. going up to the 15 from 14 would probably work fine

believe me, I tune engines a fair amount at work, I was tuning a 2.4L GM engine at work the other day, went from an air fuel ratio of 12.9:1 to 14:1 (with a cat, optimal is 14.7, without a cat you want to be around 12:1 for optimum power and around 14:1 for best emissions) and there was a whopping 3ftlb difference in torque at 4200rpm

the only way to make more fuel give you more power is to get more air in at the same time, which on the 2.3 means serious port work (or any port work would help)

exactly, thank you
 
i understand that much about tuning i used to tune motorcycles on a dyno, but what this guy is saying is that when you load the engine up at full throttle going uphill etc you know that spot that you keep adding throttle but all you do is bog? kind of like your are running out of fuel for the amount of air going in? (i suspected a lean spot as i feel this all the time in the hills and bridges around here in 5th gear. go up a fairly steep bridge doing 65 and lose speed down to 50 at the top of the bridge, more throttle doesnt do crap...my truck has an open air filter with the air horn removed btw) he is saying it actually started pulling uphill beyond this point after changing injectors, id like to kno if there is any truth to that. almost like with air filter modifications and the air horn removed (dildo shaped thing, look inside of it and it actually chokes airflow 60 percent from what i seen) you get the air you need just not the fuel. i noticed whenever i had the airhorn installed on the truck i could go full throttle and have power the whole way. remove it and beyond 70 percent throttle you have power in the lower gears just seems when you get to a certain point you are out of power with more pedal. 5th gear you can cruise all day long but you hav a hill or something you better find 4th or your speed will nosedive, i hate this about my truck and i kno there is more power to be had, i hav 215/70r14s and 3.73 gears this shouldnt be an issue. to me it just seems like ford programmed the ecu for very little air and without good resources to tune my obd1 engine (92 ranger) im stuck with little options. if something that simple can be done to correct my little issue without touching the computer i would be ecstatic. almost willing to give it a try just to see what the results would be and report back to you, but its really cold and im trying to save money for a new motor (mine is smokin a lil and going to build for more power). tuning wise i understand by increasing the size of the injector you are simply increasing the threshhold for more power, it has to be programmed in. now with that said, and the aforementioned statement that in closed loop it will trim it off. i understand this, but you are only in closed loop at idle and cruise, you dump the throttle 10 degrees either way for accel or decel the truck goes into open loop and reads the programming and adjusts the fuel level per the throttle position/cfm (mass airflow sensor) and rpm, its still sending the same injector pulsewidth from the initial programming to the injectors based on that map. if the fuel pressure is the same and the injector size is larger, would this not in theory richen the mixture during open loop accel/decel, where im looking for performance in hillclimbing etc? and since we are not talking going from 14 to 35 lb injectors, just a slight increase to a maximum of 17lbs, we wouldnt be just dumping fuel in the motor, normally id just try to get an adjustable fuel rail and bump the pressure up across the board but dont want to put too much pressure on the injector and cause injector misfiring/sticking.
 
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the fuel multiplier from the oxygen sensor is most likely still applied under transient loads in open loop (open loop just means it's not actively adjusting with the oxygen sensor, doesn't mean the stored multiplier or table of values isn't used)

it shouldn't really hurt, but it's not running out of power because the injectors are too small, if you don't get any more power going from 1/2 throttle to full, that means the engine can't flow any more air. At work, we run the 2.4L I was talking about earlier we use a throttle around 25mm for our industrial market, we run them to 3000rpm in this setup, it doesn't start dropping because of the small ass throttle until about 2800rpm, on that marine engine I mentioned earlier, we run them to about 4200 because that's where Jet pumps are generally ran to (we do engines for jet boats mostly) we are running it on a 58mm throttle, full power is at about 60% throttle position, past 60% there's only a couple foot pounds of torque to be had. The reason the power might increase when you let off the throttle a little is either the airflow is better or more even, or the timing is adjusted by throttle position (I don't know what is used for timing on them, whether it's just by rpm or if it's adjusted by load or throttle position or something)

to get more power, worry about air flow, not fuel, in stock form these things can't get the air into the chamber, and doing any more than you have before the cylinder head most likely won't get you any more power
 
makes sense, either that that or its past the sweet spot in the cam and im asking for something out of the rpm range the cam is designed to run. for example, cam is designed for 2-4k rpm and your asking for power at 15k, wont pull near as hard until you hit 2 and run it thru 4, in which you run out after 4. on the same not if your asking for power at 5 with the cam at 2-4 your not going to get anything more from it until you shift up and hit 2-4 again or in my case no more gears and im stuck downshifting and riding the powerband of 4th gear. to be honest 5th gear in the m50d is really long and the engine feels like crap in 5th until you find the sweet spot around 70-75 when the rpms are around 3-4 with my 3.73s. on the same token 4th feels good around 45-65, cruising in 5th is possible but your not going to accelerate or pull a hill until you drop to 4th and use the sweet spot in that gear. im thinking it may just be more along the lines of cam timing, wish i could play with the cam timing to test that theory...
 
just go into 4th, it's cheaper... it's not a 4.0, I love that thing in my explorer, power to accelerate in 5th from about 45 on...
 
20% more fuel does NOT mean 20% more power, not to mention the computer will correct for the fuel flow with the oxygen sensor. going up to the 15 from 14 would probably work fine

believe me, I tune engines a fair amount at work, I was tuning a 2.4L GM engine at work the other day, went from an air fuel ratio of 12.9:1 to 14:1 (with a cat, optimal is 14.7, without a cat you want to be around 12:1 for optimum power and around 14:1 for best emissions) and there was a whopping 3ftlb difference in torque at 4200rpm

the only way to make more fuel give you more power is to get more air in at the same time, which on the 2.3 means serious port work (or any port work would help)

Agreed... I'd pay for some dyno time, and a dyno tune, before I spent a bunch of money swapping components around.
 
ok i have tried to 19lb mustang injectors, now i am trouble shuting a few problems but that is to much fuel for the moter and i have a lot of other mods including a chip. i an going to get a set of 15lb fom summit and see what that does cause the stang injectors did help but i would not run them with out some tuning. these might work with port work and a bigger throtle body
 
what mustang? the old 2.3 mustang or v6/v8 mustang? and another thing your chip may be throwing it off since its tuned for the factory injectors. reason i ask about what mustang the injectors came out of is im not sure what impedence the injectors are (high or low impedence) as if you have the wrong ones it can overheat the injector circuit in the ecu and fry your computer...pay attn and look it up b4 ordering!!! weve basically ruled this mod out unless your tuning her on the dyno and just using the extra size of the injectors to help get more fuel to compensate for porting/cam/high flow exhaust setups. (for example you are tuning the truck and the stock injectors are peaked at .95 duty cycle at 120hp and to compensate step the injectors up to 17lbs and have them run 135hp at .80 duty cycle.)
 

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