How important are Cold Cranking Amps on your battery?

[pentode]

Burn?

That's what we did to witches back in the good old days.

Check the specifications carefully; if the battery weighs as much as a duck, it's made of wood; therefore it must be a witch.


Sorry; it's an old Monty Python thing . . .

I was around for that one... Holy Grail if memory serves. Classic.

 

[Blmpkn]

 

[RobbieD]

"Well, we did do the nose."

 

[SlugStang8997]

Charging lithium batteries is a very complex thing. They need to be specific voltages and currents over a period of time and based on feedback from the individual cells themselves. There's no alternator in the world that can charge a random lithium battery, you need a battery management system in between. Some of these aftermarket car batteries must have integrated BMSs - you'd have to follow their specs to safely charge them but in all cases lithium batteries do not love to be charged with high current. This creates heat, which degrades the batteries, and in the worst case causes them to burn. Heat is one of the main limiting factors in charging lithium.

Thanks for your reply
I had thought that the Lithium battery would charge at the right voltage and amperage. I was looking for an alternator that could be adapted to charge a lithium battery without a charger. Those JS alternators were the closest thing i could find. Cause you could set the voltage and i think they could set the amperage 2. So set the alternator up to run with a specific lithium battery and you would be good to go without a dc to dc charger.

But i was going to got dual light weight AGM instead anyway.

What other components do i need to run 2 Light weight AGM batteries or race car batteries, in parallel safely? Do i need a fuse and isolator?Wondering what would be best cause braille doesn't sell any accessories that would help you run 2 of there batteries.

So im going to upgrade the alternator to 220amps or 250amps and run a second battery to get my cca and ca up higher along with all the other benefits of 2 batteries. The battery i was looking at for this purpose was the Braille light weight agm battery B2618. It is 3.5inch wide so 2 would be 7 inches wide and should fit tightly in the stock ranger battery tray.

It sounds a little crazy but big alternator and 2 race car batteries is the way i was going to go. But at least the batteries are AGM and not lithium.

 

[pentode]

Thanks for your reply
I had thought that the Lithium battery would charge at the right voltage and amperage. I was looking for an alternator that could be adapted to charge a lithium battery without a charger. Those JS alternators were the closest thing i could find. Cause you could set the voltage and i think they could set the amperage 2. So set the alternator up to run with a specific lithium battery and you would be good to go without a dc to dc charger.

But i was going to got dual light weight AGM instead anyway.

What other components do i need to run 2 Light weight AGM batteries or race car batteries, in parallel safely? Do i need a fuse and isolator?Wondering what would be best cause braille doesn't sell any accessories that would help you run 2 of there batteries.

So im going to upgrade the alternator to 220amps or 250amps and run a second battery to get my cca and ca up higher along with all the other benefits of 2 batteries. The battery i was looking at for this purpose was the Braille light weight agm battery B2618. It is 3.5inch wide so 2 would be 7 inches wide and should fit tightly in the stock ranger battery tray.

It sounds a little crazy but big alternator and 2 race car batteries is the way i was going to go. But at least the batteries are AGM and not lithium.

I'll be honest here, I still think you're better off running the battery you already have that works, but here are a couple answers.

AGM batteries are very safe batteries, as well as durable and really well suited to automotive applications. They're basically superior in every way to flooded lead-acid batteries. Other than the caveat @Rick W mentioned at the beginning of the thread, I don't see any problems running 2 in parallel with very heavy wiring... shouldn't need any fuses or anything like that if you're just going to run them as starting batteries.

One thing I want to make clear is that the power your alternator can put out has no relation to how much starting power you have. All you need from your alternator is enough juice to run the electronics you're using plus a small margin to top up the battery as you're driving along. That's what I was getting at with my joke earlier on, any excess your alternator can provide is literally wasted. The stock alternator in your truck will easily power everything you have _and_ keep your battery topped off _and_ give you all the CCA your batteries can provide. Hope that's helpful.

EDIT: I want to add that as much as having too much alternator is useless, so is having too much battery. The reason race cars have special batteries is that they have big engines, high compression, and often times run without alternators at all. As many of us have said in this thread, you only need enough amps to turn your engine over at a couple hundred RPM. Any extra capacity will never be used and is just wasted money IMHO.

 

[2011Supercab]

Again, Stick with your 720CCA battery and 130 AMP alternator, it's already more than you need.

They are both easily replaced on the side of the road.

If your wanted fancy alternator or battery die, you'll be stuck sending them back to the manufacture hoping they will warranty them and be without your truck for 2 or more weeks.

 

[pentode]

Again, Stick with your 720CCA battery and 130 AMP alternator, it's already more than you need.

They are both easily replaced on the side of the road.

If your wanted fancy alternator or battery die, you'll be stuck sending them back to the manufacture hoping they will warranty them and be without your truck for 2 or more weeks.

This is a _great_ point. I have a couple cars it's impossible to get parts for easily. The reason I take the Ranger on road trips is that I know no matter where I am and no matter what goes wrong, I'll find what I need.

 

[Rick W]

I’ve been out of the loop a couple days, but I just read over everything. I’d like to support a couple ideas and shake a couple ideas.

If you have a passion to make the lithium ion batteries work and figure out the charging system, absolutely go for it. Most of us here, and this site are dedicated to the guys who want to do something different and/or upgrade.

Having said that, I think you’re begging for reliability problems. All the different alternators and all the different lead acid batteries are proven systems and you can service them anywhere. You don’t necessarily want it to start as good as it can possibly start. What you want is for it to start every time for a long time, IMHO.

I also agree that extra alternator capacity is wasted, as is extra battery capacity. Now, having said that, a little extra alternator capacity and battery capacity can make up for some other sins like shaky wiring, shaky connections, a worn starter, etc.

A thought on racing batteries too. I never raced, but I’ve been a hangar on for some guys who like to road race, from SCCA stuff up to Indy cars. Racing batteries are designed to do their task for ONE DAY with optimum performance. I’m not saying they are use once/throw away, but they are absolutely not designed for long-term use and reliability.

Right now, I have an 87 and 88 Lincoln Town Cars, both 5L/302, both with the slight dealer HP upgrades. If I put 1000 miles a year on either one I’ll be surprised. I don’t remember what the original battery size was, but since I got the Rangers I’ve used 65, and I think I upgraded one of the Town Cars to a 65. When I turn the key, they spin like a top. I also have a 7.5L/460 in my 78 Mark V which spins like a top off a 65. I think they’re all 700 or 750 CCA. 65 with 700 CCA should be everything you ever need to start that 5L you’ve got.

if you have any concern regarding the starter when starting, I would start right there, no pun intended. Doesn’t mean you have to buy a new starter. They’re relatively easy to take out, and relatively easy to take apart and check out, and parts are dirt cheap. I’d pull it out and clean or replace the brushes, clean the armature where the brushes ride, check all the roller surfaces and clean and polish them, make sure the alignment bushings are all in good shape, and put a tiny drop of 3-in-1 or something like that on the bushing surfaces. Nothing that will run, just enough to lube them a little bit. If anything looks rough, throw in a rebuilt starter.

Also, at a minimum, I would carefully inspect the power cable to the starter, and the ground cables between the battery negative and the block. There should be a direct wire somewhere. If that is not secure or clean, you’re relying on a ground that runs from the battery to the body to the frame to the transmission to the engine, or something like that. I think somebody said it, but you can always throw in a few extra ground wires here and there, but it shouldn’t be hard or take long to loosen up the ones you’ve got and clean them and put them back together. Note, wire brushing them on the ends and then covering them with clear polyurethane is good, but that doesn’t tell you if the wire inside the insulation is OK. You can take a utility knife and split the insulation a couple inches down from the connector, and just look for corrosion, and/or, if the copper is dark and brittle. If so, replace. And you can get plenty of good starter and ground lines from the scrapyard.

Something that is occasionally missed, and I don’t remember seeing it mentioned here, is simply the starter solenoid. It’s just a big relay, but if the contact points are burned, it won’t pass full energy. They’re pretty cheap, but if you drill the rivets, you can actually rebuild them or clean them, and just put them back together with either rivets or nuts and bolts.

Again, if you want to go exotic, absolutely go for it. But you will have the “reliability” of “exotic.“ Those two words don’t usually go together. Decent alternator, decent battery, and clean copper between them and on the starting circuit should spin that engine like a merry-go-round.

One last thought. I don’t know if this is a daily driver. I’ve got six vehicles and it’s just me, and I’m retired. I’d be amazed if I put 6 or 7000 miles a year on all of them put together. I always have a decent quality, 2 amp (or 4 or 6) charger/maintainer attached if I know I’m not going to drive something in the next day or two. I have them spread out across my garage and property, and I have them with two pin connectors wired right into the car.. Not only do they keep the battery topped off, if you buy a halfway decent one, the constant trickle effect will actually keep the plates inside the battery cleaner and make the battery last longer. Just don’t drive away with one attached like I do about once a year.

I’ve used these two with great reliability. One will burn out about once a year, but they’re dirt cheap.

I’d say “my two cents” but I think I’ve quoted a lot of folks two cents here…

Good luck with it!

 

[Uncle Gump]

Starter Draw test... will tell you if there is a starter issue

Battery Load test... will tell you if your battery will hold half it's CCA rating for 15 seconds while staying above 9.6 volts

Voltage Drop test... this will test your cables

All this talk of exotic batteries and charging systems is making my head hurt.

The permanent magnet starter on your V8 swap Ranger likely draws less then 100 amps on its worst day.

 

[Rick W]

Afterthought, one other thing. The alignment/engagement of the starter with the flywheel. When you pull the starter, look very carefully at the actual contact gear, and also look at the flywheel for wear on the teeth.

On my 87, it’s apparently a common problem once they have some miles, that the starter will not engage the flywheel properly. The mounting holes for the starter are a little larger than ideal, and you can move the starter around relative to the flywheel more than ideal. Specifically, you can innocently place the starter, where only the tip of the starter teeth are contacting the tip of the flywheel teeth, instead of engaging fully.

My starter started spinning out of the blue, some grinding, but the flywheel wouldn’t move. I got a push start, got it home, and did the research.

The “correct“ repair, once there is separation, involves replacing the flywheel which is no small task. The poor man solution, which fits by category, was to shim the starter closer to the flywheel.

These are not shims that go under the bolt heads or nuts that hold the starter in. I don’t remember if it was TRS that had the advice, but it involved making a shim that would slide in the bolt holes next to the bolt to shift the center of the starter as close as possible to the center of the flywheel.

I used some 1/8 inch aluminum sheet, and cut it in the shape of one of those little wedges you hammer into the head of a hammer handle, spreading the wood and holding it all in place. It was tapered from side to side, but I also tapered the tip of it to make it easier to slide in the hole once I started the bolt. Also, before I used it, I sat it on top of the crack in the vice jaws and whacked it with the chisel, so it had a slight bend would hugged the bolts better.

The two I made were too big, so once you started the starter bolt in the hole, you actually had to tap them in the annular space. Then I just pressed them in by tightening the bolt. As a last step, I backed off the bolt and I cleaned up the excess aluminum that wasn’t pushed down into the hole, just a tiny bit exposed, so that when I tightened the bolts, it was really jammed down in there.

It took longer to write this, than it took to do it. A couple years later, no new flywheel, no grinding, starts every time.

if you think about it, it may also improve the electrical contact between the starter and the flywheel housing, but I don’t think that is significant.

My two cents, I hope it helps.

 

[superj]

for sure, reliability definitely is worth more than cool looking/sounding stuff