Help! C4/C5 output shaft not turning

[rednine4]

So I was simply changing bell housings from 164tooth to 157 tooth... When I was removing the old one the pump was stuck so I gently tapped it with a rubber mallet to free it ... It came up a few inches but not all the way out or anything ( about 2 inches) ...

When I put the new bell on, the output shaft wouldnt turn.. before I took it apart it would turn and the center (smaller) input shaft would turn.. Now neither turn...

Did I mess something up or is this normal?

I tried shifting it into different gears but it still didnt turn like it did before.

THEN... I pulled the bell back off and put it on loosely (not torqued just snuggly bolted) and the shaft turned exactly like it did before.. every time I tighten the bolts down it becomes impossible to turn by hand...

 

[rednine4]

For what it's worth, I was torquing the bolts to 25 ft lbs

 

[Bent Bolt]

When the pump came out , the clutches "unsplined" themselves from a drum ans when you tried to put it back in, it's bound up. You have to dissassemble the trans to reassemble it properly.

Good news is you caught it before you installed it and nothing should be broken.

 

[projectnitemare]

How was the transmission sitting? If on the pan 1 of 2 things most likely happened. The thrust washer on the pump became un seated or the front drum clutches became unsplined off the hub. Its not hard to fix if you feel confident. Stand the trans on the tailshaft end, pull the pump, loosen the front band and make sure the drum is splined in. Thighten the band, use vasoline the hold the thrustwasher to the pump (get a new pump gasket please), install the pump and bell. Adjust the front band and make sure your output turns.

Matt

 

[rednine4]

I had it sitting on the tailshaft (vertically) when I removed the pump...

I feel very confident in fixing it... I just wish I had a manual or something better to go off of.

What is the exact process of removing the pump?

 

[COPPERHEAD85]

Go to you youtube and look for Bad shoe Productions.
Great video stuff for the C-4.

 

[rednine4]

Thanks! Those are some very good videos, especially the air checks one. I will be sure to do those when im at that point. In the mean time, can anyone provide a simple walk through of how to get my trans back to normal without opening up a bigger can of worms lol..

I guess I am wondering if I can pull the pump out with the entire input shaft or does the pump come free of the shaft? Do i need to pull the pan off to do this?

 

[projectnitemare]

Ok if it were on the tailshaft the entire time not much should have moved. Most likely the thrust washer fell out of place and you lost end play. To fix this you need to set it back up on the tail end. Pull the bell off and pull the pump out. The input shaft is independent of everything so you can pull it out too. You may have to tap the stator spline with a rubber mallet to break the pump free from the case. With the pump out and you should find the thrust washer sitting on the drum. Most likely the drum hasn't moved the band should have kept it in place. Look at the wear mark from the band, does it line up with the band? If not good chance the drum moved and clutch came unsplined. No biggie either. Loosen the band and remove it, don't lose the band anchor in the case or you will be tearing the rest down to find it. Pull the drum off, count the clutches. You can pull the snap ring off and pull the clutches to inspect them if you want. Set it back in twisting back and forth quickly ensuring you engaged all your clutches. Reinstall your band. Set your input shaft back in, it will help guide your pump. Make sure your thurst washer wasn't damaged. Glue it to the pump with vasoline, oil the sealing rings on the stator and gently wiggle the pump back inplace being careful not to bind and break the rings...new gasket of course as well. Bolt the bell back on. Back the band lock nut off, tighten the stud to 120in-lbs (firm rachet tight) and back off 1 3/4 turns and secure the lock nut. Your output should turn after this.

Matt

 

[rednine4]

Thrust washer and all visible parts look good to me. I loosened up the band but for some reason I cant pull the drum out... I dont want to yank too hard and break anything.. but it seems like it should come straight up and out...

Looking down the center hole of the drum with the input shaft out I see a washer type thing that is off center... this looks like a possible culprit... it will post a pic

 

[rednine4]

Here is the off center looking washer... maybe it's supposed to be this way? Just doesnt seem right..

 

[rednine4]

Update... I got the drum out... of course I dropped the band anchors lol... no sweat though I was able to get them.. vasolined the washer that was out of place... im 100 percent sure that's what it was... now i just have to re install the band anchors and pump etc... should be ready to roll...

 

[COPPERHEAD85]

Sweet!
The trans guy sells complete videos (dvd) on ebay for about $10.
Used one to build my C-4,well worth the dough.

 

[projectnitemare]

That should get you rolling again. Just make sure everything turns and you should be ok

Matt

 

[rednine4]

Thanks again for the great post.. super helpful... I would definitely have to say it was fairly the hardest part for me was getting the anchors back in place while installing the band... seems like there might be a special tool to make that process easier..