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Carb jet size question


motorbill87

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
278
City
Arlington, Texas
Vehicle Year
2003/2006
Transmission
Automatic
I'm running a demon 850 on my 351w. wondering what size jets woulb be a good starting point to get it running right. she's running really rich right now with #89 and #85 jets in it.

Does anyone else have this size carb on a windsor?
 
I have never run a Demon carb but, on my 351w that was built I ran a 800dp Holley and I ran 78 jets in the front and 84's in the rear. This jetting worked best for my car and you will just need to play with your car and get it figured out. Even if someone had close to the same setup as you there are other things that will require it to havediffrent jetsfrom yours. Things like altitude, tempature and humidity all can change the jetting requirements of your engine.
 
I'm running a demon 850 on my 351w. wondering what size jets woulb be a good starting point to get it running right. she's running really rich right now with #89 and #85 jets in it.

Does anyone else have this size carb on a windsor?

Unless you've got an "all out" race motor and vehicle, you've got WAY TOO MUCH carb there. You may or may not ever get it "right" otherwise. If it's a stock to mild 351W, you'd be better off with a carb in the 600-700 cfm range.
 
it actually runs fine with the 850 on it, its just running a little fat and I figured I'd ask to see what others where running just to get a better idea on what jets I should go down to. I didn't want to jet it down too much. I've got #81/89 in it right now so i'm going to try going with a #75/82. I'll let yall know how it goes from there. thanks for the info and concerns
 
it actually runs fine with the 850 on it, its just running a little fat and I figured I'd ask to see what others where running just to get a better idea on what jets I should go down to. I didn't want to jet it down too much. I've got #81/89 in it right now so i'm going to try going with a #75/82. I'll let yall know how it goes from there. thanks for the info and concerns

You're going to lean it out too much. You've already got a weak vacuum signal with the 850 being too big. It's more likely your powervalve needs to be changed to a different one, it's opening with the weaker vacuum signal when it's not supposed to, that's where the extra fuel is coming from. You say it runs fine, but unless you stick a smaller carb on it, you'll never see just how wrong the 850 is for your motor. I'll bet Everytime you nail the pedal at low speeds it kills the motor.
 
doesnt kill it but it stumbles.......so if the 850 is too big how come I've seen small block chevys that are almost bone stock and have a dual carb set up and each carb is 550 cfm, so its has a total of 1100cfm and small jets but run just fine? I'm not tryin to be an a$$, I just dont know everything about carbs. If you could guide me in the right direction it would be a great help.

Unfortunately replacing this carb is out of the question for me so i need to make this work
 
doesnt kill it but it stumbles.......so if the 850 is too big how come I've seen small block chevys that are almost bone stock and have a dual carb set up and each carb is 550 cfm, so its has a total of 1100cfm and small jets but run just fine? I'm not tryin to be an a$$, I just dont know everything about carbs. If you could guide me in the right direction it would be a great help.

Unfortunately replacing this carb is out of the question for me so i need to make this work

Because they're vacuum secondary carbs and the motor only runs on one carb until the revs come up high enough to use more. Your 850 is a mech secondary carb, when you nail the pedal at lower rpms, your vacuum signal goes to zero and the twin accellerator pumps cannot supply enough fuel to compensate for the "instant lean" condition when this happens. Those 2x4 setups seldom use all the capacity the carbs offer. The total cfm may be "rated" at 1100 cfm, but the motor it's sitting on will never draw that much air thru them, not even at WOT at max rpms. What a carb is rated to flow and what it actually flows on any given motor is two different things. With a smaller carb, you have a stronger vacuum signal under the carb which allows the circuits to be more reponsive to the engine's needs. This is not fuel injection, the only thing pulling the fuel from the bowls is the vacuum drawing air thru the carbs throats (venturis actually) that, and the accellerator pumps. The stronger the vacuum pull, the easier the fuel will flow thru the circuits. I'm running a 3x2 setup on my 331 which has a progressive mech linkage, the center carb is the primary and although it's rated at 250 cfm, it will actually flow about 350 cfm before the secondary carbs start to open (these two carbs are also rated at 250 cfm each) Now all that said, you can try to make the 850 work, but it never will be perfect, try a lower numbered powervalve in the primary side (I think i'm right here, but not 100% as I've never had to try doing what you're doing) and see if that fixes the rich condition. As for the stumble, the only thing I can tell you is either learn to keep your foot out if it at lower rpms, or better yet, disconnect the secondaries altogether, making it a 2 bbl carb that'll be better sized for your combo.
 
I agree with baddad457 completely. That's absolutey the wrong carb for that engine. It's like putting D batteries into your TV remote. I would take that thing off of there at once. You can try to crutch the big fuel leaker, but it's never going to run right.

Nevermind what other people run--they are usually lying, wrong, and most of the time, both.

Your 351, assuming it has stock heads, is probably good for 5,000rpm. It might spin faster, but it probably isn't doing much good past 5,000. Using the old RPM*CID over 1728 (cubic inches in a cubic foot) and dividing by 2 because it's a 4-stroke, and multiplying by .8 because your motor is optimistically 80% efficient at flowing air, you arrive at 400cfms. That would be the carb rating of a 4bbl, which is rated at 1.5" of mercury negative pressure in the intake manifold. You should be running a carb as close to 400cfms as you can.

As baddad said, you've got a weak signal, which means bad mixing and a confused intermediate circuit. When you pick a power valve, you have a vacuum gauge in the car and you drive it watching what the needle does when you accelerate. For instance, if you have a 6.5 powervalve in there, when the manifold vacuum drops to 6.5hg, the valve opens. If you are idling at 15hg and everytime you accelerate normally from a light your needle drops to 3hg, you need to get a 2.5 powervalve. Running a carb meant for a race motor on a stock motor means it's not going to work. That carb may work on a 351, but on a 351 that makes it's max torque at 5,500rpm and shifts at 7,000.

You need a carb designed to function in the rpm range you use. A drag motor that idles at 1,500, shakes the mirrors so badly you can't see out of them and leaks raw gas out of the headers isn't a performance engine in a truck that needs to make torque at 1,000-4,000rpm. The old 1850 Holley has much smaller primaries than your big double-pump and uses only the amount of secondaries that is can operate. It won't be very much--just a crack of them at full power.

Tuning a carb is tedious enough. Tuning the wrong carb is impossible. Throttle response will be weak, you might even get fireballs up through the throat when you try to romp on it.

My last hotrod was a 472" 1971 460 in a '64 Galaxie. It ran 13s on pump gas with iron exhaust manifolds, quiet mufflers and a 3.00 axle with a C6. I used a 600cfm AFB, and used ALL of it. It had razor sharp throttle response and pulled to 5,000rpm.

Do you want to go fast or brag about your parts? Get the right thing on there.
 

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thanks for the info guys. btw no one is braggin about parts, I asked the question to get some answers and helpful info
 
btw no one is braggin about parts,

I believe they meant, when guys stand around shooting the shit about their vehicles. Someone usually ends up bragging about different parts or how big of a carb they are running. just my .02 though
 
I see.
Well just an update, I traded the demon for a holley 650 double pumper, so i should be good to go now huh?

thanks for all the 411 everyone. i'll let y'all know how it ends up:icon_cheers:
 
That carb should run much better for you. Vacuum secondaries would probably still serve you better though IMO. Lets us know how it works.

Pete
 
The 650 will be a better match and easier to tune, but it'll also still take some work to get it lean. Double pumper Holleys were never meant to be fuel efficient, they were intended to be race carbs. If you could get a list 80783 650, that would be an ideal street carb as it's a vacuum secondary carb. A 3310 750 will work too, although a tad big for a stock 351. I ran one on an Explorer 5.0 for a year in my Ranger until I found a 570 Street Avenger for it.
 
so its been a while since I really drove the truck. I've been driving it since last friday and no problems so far. it is running a bit on the rich side. i'm going to jet it down a couple more sizes tonight, adjust everthing and see how it goes from there.
 

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