A way to keep my lift but gain a smoother ride?

[JoshT]

getting offset torsion keys will soften the ride.

Would it though? The torsion bar still needs the same amount of preload for a given ride height, the offset keys (which it appears he has) just allows for more preload before the adjuster bolt reaches it's limit. Same deal for drop keys when lowering one, same ammount of preload for given height, but the drop keys allows for more drop when stock key would bottom out on the adjuster bar.

@JJMaine

I'm still a bit lost on exactly what's done to your truck and how much lift it actually has. 2" or 4"? If it's 4 inch just through a torsion adjustment, thats going to be your problem, way too much preload on the bars. In that case I'd be looking to install a proper lift kit like Bobby was talking about and remove all of that torsion bar twist.

I agree with the guys talking about that rear shackle. You (or who ever installed them) have got the bolt turned around backwards, the bolt head should be towards the frame of the truck. That bolt is likely limiting or preventing shackle movement causing a worse ride.

As long as the suspension isn't so tight that it prevents movement, a good set of shocks will go a long way towards improving ride quality. Once other suspension issues are sorted, look into something good like a set of Bilsteins (have used) or Rancho (haven't used).

If you are not encountering issues with binding in the suspension and your torsion bars are just too stiff at that preload, maybe a softer set of bars. There may be an article in the tech library that discusses which codes are harder and softer. Also a coil over conversion would get rid of the torsion bars all together which is a large source of complaint about these trucks. You;d get a better ride and more flexable suspension at the same time.

 

[JJMaine]

I just bought it and the only thing I have done was backed off the torsion bolts to drop the front level with the rear before getting an alignment. That drastically improved it but it’s still a bit stiffer than Id like.

I’ll get some better photos of everything this afternoon when I get home.

The previous owner also put Rancho shocks on it front and rear.

How would I go about changing the bolts around in the shackles? Take the top bolts out and drop them down to allow room to put the bottom bolts in from the other side?

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[JJMaine]

So if I understand it, cranking up the torsion bars is the same as adding preload on say, a motorcycle rear shock? That would explain the harsher ride. So I need to figure out what torsion keys I have so that I know which ones I need to buy to drop the front a little (1-1.5”) to soften the ride up a bit?

The guy I bought it off said it has 2” keys but I’m not sure as the adjustment bolts are backed way out and it appears I still have more than 2” of lift in the front? Is there a dimension I can compare to from a stock 2011 4x4 Ranger like center of hub to the fender? I can’t seem to find any definitive info there.

 

[JJMaine]

From the top of my tire to the fender is about 7” and center of hub to the fender is 22”.

I took some crappy photos of the axle angle and the torsion keys to show how far the bolts are backed out.

 

[MaicoDoug]

I wonder how heavy your front end actually is, what engine do you have in that war wagon anyway? Congrats BTW on your first truck.

The Rancho shocks, they come in 2 basic models, 3000 & 5000, the 5000's have an adjustable feature by simply rotating the shaft a click CW or CCW. 3 positions.

In my opinion it seems that you have a lifting key, and way too much preload on the torsion bars. If that is the case the rear most likely has also been modified, lifted. If you never plan on using the bed's full load capacity, consider removing that extra duty 3/8" leaf spring.

Question, regarding the harshness, would it be possible for you to comment on each of these 3 questions after your adjustments that you have already done....
1) the front is too stiff
2) the rear is too stiff
3) both front & rear are too stiff

Rangers ride rough, FYI. I have deleted the torsion bars going with 800lb sprung Fox coilovers. I get full travel going 45mph on some paved back roads along 70 feet of roadway with my heavy 4.0L v6.

I must say however that with that 3/8" helper leaf spring" in the rear stack is a back breaker, but when loaded with a half ton of concrete bags is the only way to go. With my current 300lb Lear bed topper, it has calmed the rear alot, much better now. Tell us how it rides when you have a couple of friends (a load) in the bed. Easy way to test. I believe those Cooper Discovery tires are load range D.

 

[JoshT]

I just bought it and the only thing I have done was backed off the torsion bolts to drop the front level with the rear

So it was squatted? After backing the bolts most of the way out it is still level?

The pic of the shackle looks like a lift shackle. If that is correct it was definitely lifted more than a few inches with keys. I don't know what keys are in it but they definitely ain't stock. Based on that, if it were mine I'd probably be trying to find of 98-07 stock keys. They'll allow for more height than the stock 08+, but not be extreme.

The guy I bought it off said it has 2” keys but I’m not sure as the adjustment bolts are backed way out and it appears I still have more than 2” of lift in the front?

That don't sound right to me. Your measurements listed later sound more than 2" of lift, but I don't have a stock truck to compare to.

So if I understand it, cranking up the torsion bars is the same as adding preload on say, a motorcycle rear shock?

That sounds right.

From the top of my tire to the fender is about 7” and center of hub to the fender is 22”.

I took some crappy photos of the axle angle and the torsion keys to show how far the bolts are backed out.

That looks like a lot control arm angle, lots of torsion bar crank.

Not only a lot of preload on the bar, if that shock is for stock height, it may not be in proper operating range.

Just my 2¢, I'm far from an expert in lifting these.

 

[bobbywalter]

Would it though? The torsion bar still needs the same amount of preload for a given ride height, the offset keys (which it appears he has) just allows for more preload before the adjuster bolt reaches it's limit. Same deal for drop keys when lowering one, same ammount of preload for given height, but the drop keys allows for more drop when stock key would bottom out on the adjuster bar.

@JJMaine

I'm still a bit lost on exactly what's done to your truck and how much lift it actually has. 2" or 4"? If it's 4 inch just through a torsion adjustment, thats going to be your problem, way too much preload on the bars. In that case I'd be looking to install a proper lift kit like Bobby was talking about and remove all of that torsion bar twist.

I agree with the guys talking about that rear shackle. You (or who ever installed them) have got the bolt turned around backwards, the bolt head should be towards the frame of the truck. That bolt is likely limiting or preventing shackle movement causing a worse ride.

As long as the suspension isn't so tight that it prevents movement, a good set of shocks will go a long way towards improving ride quality. Once other suspension issues are sorted, look into something good like a set of Bilsteins (have used) or Rancho (haven't used).

If you are not encountering issues with binding in the suspension and your torsion bars are just too stiff at that preload, maybe a softer set of bars. There may be an article in the tech library that discusses which codes are harder and softer. Also a coil over conversion would get rid of the torsion bars all together which is a large source of complaint about these trucks. You;d get a better ride and more flexable suspension at the same time.

that is true if already maxed down....

so that depends.

at this vintage most will max stroke out and not get much lift. the key is to stop at about 2 inches over typical sag which will actually rub certain stock rated tires.... max generally 1.5 is really about as far as you want to go so there is still down travel...though some get by due to well worn bushings. so its a confusing mixed bag.

we had so many issues with bracket lifts back when these first hit the market... it was hard to keep your half shafts together. but they make some real nice units now and they are actually cheaper then i would have imagined. long traved high degree.... we made those by hand and it was a pia.... now you just buy them.


for me its simpler.

i would either leave it stock.... or build a long travel setup from 150 parts and run a full float out back.... the truck will take the maximum amount of abuse that way reliably.


so for the poster JJ

...if you lke the hieght. invest in a quality lift. if the tires rub with it returned to NEAR stock settings....sell them aqnd get smaller units and enjoy the truck.

 

[bobbywalter]

So if I understand it, cranking up the torsion bars is the same as adding preload on say, a motorcycle rear shock? That would explain the harsher ride. So I need to figure out what torsion keys I have so that I know which ones I need to buy to drop the front a little (1-1.5”) to soften the ride up a bit?

The guy I bought it off said it has 2” keys but I’m not sure as the adjustment bolts are backed way out and it appears I still have more than 2” of lift in the front? Is there a dimension I can compare to from a stock 2011 4x4 Ranger like center of hub to the fender? I can’t seem to find any definitive info there.

the only way to know exactly where it is and what it is supposed to be is to take it to an alignment shop.

but you got the basics....with a 2 inch key you basically only want a max of a 2 in lift... the point of the key is to have normal life cycle adjustmant to maintain the max 2 in lift in which by doing this you are shortening the life of everything including the torsion spring... which is fine for most people and truck use.

 

[JJMaine]

Thanks Doug! My truck has the 4.0 and I do have the 5000 series shocks. The model on them is Rs5229 I believe?

The previous owner did say that he replaced the rear spring shackles. It looks like mine has 2 positions and they are set to the higher position.

I would say to me that the front feels too stiff but I havent driven any other rangers as a comparison and have not owned the truck long . Also has slight bump steer. It was REALLY bad before I turned down the bars and had an alignment.

I agree Josh, the strange thing is that the torsion key bolts are turned down as much as possible and the front is still lifted pretty high. The keys are almost sitting on the stops that the bolts thread through. Do you think they indexed the keys wrong? All of the torsion bar crank has to be from the position of the keys themselves because the bolts aren't cranked.

Will the pre ‘08 keys still allow enough lift for my 265/70-16 tires? At this point I might want to just have the keys and shackles changed so I KNOW what my truck has on it.

If I get the ‘07 torsion keys, what shackles would pair well with those? Thanks!

 

[Uncle Gump]

So... all the talk of ride height... we should actually look at the way it's measured. It's not fender opening to the ground... it's the difference between a point on the lower control arm vs rhe stationery control arm bolt on the frame cross member. These specs are going to be for the pre 2008 model that have a higher ride height.

I'll also add that the down travel stop is actually when the upper control arm contacts the frame. That corresponds extremely close to the full down travel of the shock absorber. On my truck... one side hits the frame first... the other side actually hit the bottom of the shock first.

I put Rough Country 1 1/2 forged lift keys on my truck... a returned item I got on Amazom really cheap and one of the shock spacers was missing. In my haste to get it together for last years trail ride I put it together without the shock spacers. I also measured the front suspension per the chart and spec above at 1 1/2 inches over factory. The ride did get a bit harsher simply because I used up some of the rebound that was designed into the suspension. I also bottom out the one shock occasionally.

Here is what the shock spacer looks like and it would go under the lower upper shock bushing and washer. It's intent is to give the shock a bit more travel and keep the shock from trying to function properly at it's full extended limit.

I plan to install the shock spacers when I'm in there this year before our annual trail ride.

 

[Uncle Gump]

Something else I feel is worth mentioning here.

Suspension bushings are typically what is called a torslastic bushing. Meaning they're designed to twist in either direction from center.

Center will be determined from the point that the components are torqued down. So if a lower control arm was torqued in the full drop position... the bushing will not twist as designed and will hold the control arm from properly moving.

All the torslastic bushings MUST be torqued with the vehicle weight on the suspension. Failure to do this will certainly destroy the bushing and will keep the suspension from moving properly. This will without a single doubt cause a harsh ride.

 

[superj]

measure from the control arm and frame points. thats how i do my edge, which is the same torsion bar set up you have. it rides ok at stock height but was rough when the torsion keys were tightened to lift hte truck up.

i was actually going to swap to ricksrangers coil spring conversion for my truck to make it ride like a 2wd truck but since i have some tires i need to use, i have to stay at least stock height till these tires re worn enough that they need to be replaced.

Coil-Overs and mounts 83-11 (ricksrangerz.com)

you need the brackets that give the mounting points to put the coilovers and you need the coil overs, which are the more expensive part of the process.

the brackets are like 180 bucks but the coil overs are 5-700 bucks.

 

[bobbywalter]

Something else I feel is worth mentioning here.

Suspension bushings are typically what is called a torslastic bushing. Meaning they're designed to twist in either direction from center.

Center will be determined from the point that the components are torqued down. So if a lower control arm was torqued in the full drop position... the bushing will not twist as designed and will hold the control arm from properly moving.

All the torslastic bushings MUST be torqued with the vehicle weight on the suspension. Failure to do this will certainly destroy the bushing and will keep the suspension from moving properly.

for oem style for sure. typical replacement urethane are really forgiving.

 

[bobbywalter]

this is definitely about as far as i would try...more then i would be comfortable with. at that height its gonna ride rough. like gump indicated there could also be shock bump but that looks like a higher travel shock.

lift knuckles and the high travel cv axles would be ideal for these situations.

 

[JJMaine]

The front was 1.5” taller than it is now when I got the truck and it was horrendous. The test drive, I never tried it on any rough roads so never boticed it other than it rode a little stiff. After I bought it and drove down a bumpy road I saw how bad it was, hit a bumpy patch at 40mph and you were headed towards the ditch or oncoming traffic.

I wonder if stock rear shackles and ‘07 torsion keys would work with my tires? I’d just put it back to stock height if I had stock sized tires. Now that I have these nice Coopers, I’d hate to have to buy new tires.

The title to my thread may cause confusion because my priority is not to keep the lift. I guess I would say that I care more about ride quality and longevity of my front end parts. Where it’s at now it doesn't sound like I have either lol.