86 Ranger 2.3 - Gas will not keep engine running.

[bozo4ford]

86 Ranger 2.3/Gas EFI will not keep engine running.

86 Ranger 2.3 - Gas will not keep engine running.

Hello fellow ford rangers out there.....
Ok...here we go again. I'm still having issues, but it's intermittent.
1986 Ford Ranger / 2.3 EFI / 140 CID OHC /4-Cyl/5 speed

So with not much money and no ride, I'm going to first remove the EGR from the engine, remove the sensor, and clean all parts with carb cleaner. I will also remove, clean , and replace the Air Control valve (AIC)

I did remove the MAP sensor, hose and harness, looked in the bottom, but looked clean, no way to open and clean.

So the last time I was here, I was having doggy issues which I thought were fuel related. I'm still having issues, although it appeared to cleared up a bit.

When I start the engine, it cranks over, I'd give it some gas, it would rev up, then suddenly die, no matter if I pressed down on the gas pedal or not. After two or three times doing this, it would turn over and maintain a steady idle, then off I go.........

The problem now?
Well, late today I tried to get it going, and after about 15 times, I gave up. It would not stay idling, it would crank over then die. I did not want to ruin the starter. It seems the gas pedal is worthless after the engine decides to conk out, and no matter how many times I step on the gas pedal, nothing happens.

It would be so pleasant if I could get close to pinpointing this cause, instead of playing the expensive process of elimination game. I DO realize what a long shot that would be, for someone to just tell me, "Hey, dude, check your ##$@&&, that's definitely your problem!", but life never seems to be easy.

Has been replaced within the last few months:
Fuel filter regulator,
Inline fuel filter,
Cap and rotor,
Lucas fuel injector cleaner,
ECC computer, and Fuel pump relay switches, (multi-function relay/connector switch)
Idle Air Control Valve - Removed and Cleaned.
Checked all vacuum hoses.

Has not been replaced:
Map Sensor, (never)
EGR Valve and sensor, (never)
Throttle Position Sensor, (never)
EVP sensor, (never)
Spark plugs, (two years ago)
Plug wires, (two years ago)
Ignition control module, (TFI) (replaced about six years, or more)
Timing belt - Several years since I replaced it. Was told it needed to be replaced. No Money!
Starter - Several years ago
So, I can sure use some help from anyone who experienced these symptoms, and what did you do to correct the problem?

With trying to keep the gas going to turn it over, it does not, so to me, it seems to be more of a fuel problem than electrical, but I'm no mechanic. Thank you for any help!

_____________________________________________

ME?
Maybe it's the pump. I only had the inline fuel filter changed out, and at that time, he noticed shavings in the filter, which suggested the pump was breaking down, but only he told me two weeks later, not at the time of repair. Otherwise, I would have done that too.

I am not in any position to nickel and dime myself into oblivion, and play this dangerous game of "process of elimination" until I find the real cause(s).

So when you climb into my truck and try to turn it over after about three or four times, then it actually does turn over, idles and runs, what would be your thought?

 

[Mark_88]

Sorry to hear you're still having problems with this truck.

Hard starting has been a problem for mine but only first start. Once it has been started it will start first crank every time.

Your location indicates Anaheim so I can only assume that the weather there is warmer. But does it get cold over night and damp? These two factors are what affects mine mostly for starting and I solved them easily, but not without much part swapping, head scratching, battery charging, and frustration.

My problems are also related to the fact that I have a carb and not fuel injection, but I've heard it is relative.

I solved mine with an in-line block heater for the cold and distributor boots from a Ford Tempo for the distributor and coil.

The in-line block heater was a bit of a pita to install because I didn't want to destroy a good lower rad hose but once I found parts to patch together it was a snap. The block heater was only $50 and it has saved my battery and starter from premature wear and tear. Just wish I'd thought of it two years ago.

The distributor boots help keep moisture off the distributor and the coil and this maximizes spark efficiency. A bit of silicone spray on the wires and other associated parts (careful with this one because some wires tend to bloat if you use the wrong stuff).

I had an 89 Ford Tempo that came with the distributor boots and simply would not start on cold damp days if I left the boot off. Learned this one the hard way. I've posted pics of these on my truck before can't find the one I want.

Here is one from my Photobucket account. It shows the intake minus the carb and on the left you can see the top of the boot I'm talking about. It fits perfectly over my dizzy but I had to cut a hole in the back of it and feed the coil wire through that. There is a flap opening on the front that I ran the plug wires from but since the Tempo wires all fed the same way it had to be modified.

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/akwarian8/Int-nocarb.jpg

I also put one over my coil (the old single barrel style coil) because it is right under the edge of the hood and tends to get dripped on.


It sounds like this is part of the problem...moisture and cooler air...and it is the season...but I could be wrong...

Only other thing I can think of off hand is vac leak...but that would persist and cause rough running and not just hard starting.

Hope this helps!

 

[AgPete139]

Some things you could try:

1) I have never touched a MAP sensor, but perhaps you could clean that with cleaner as well? This works really well with the MAF filament systems, so maybe this could help a little.

2) Check the vacuum on the brake booster to the intake manifold. Sometimes if this is clogged, it can cause both hard starting and running conditions. Either way, try to clean these hoses with fuel injector cleaner (while the truck is trying to idle) or replace them. Let us know if you have heard of that trick to clean your vac hoses and your intake mani.

3) Clogged fuel lines or ijectors? Yes, I have seen cases where a clogged fuel filter was all that was needed (however, you replaced the filter). Some fuel injector additive will help this, along with potentially clogged fuel injectors.

4) I doubt its the TPS, but I haven't ruled it out. Do you at least notice a change/surge/idle difference when WOT is depressed, initially?

5) What do the spark plugs look like? Take a picture or describe it to us. This tells the story inside the motor.

6) I'm wondering if your alternator is starting to go out. It is not keeping a constant charge to your system, and you are relying on your battery. It is sort of charging the battery enough to keep it alive, but is not supplying enough extra juice to keep the motor firing. You can remove it and get it tested for free at OReillys.

 

[bozo4ford]

1986 FORD RANGER 2.3 EFI / 5-Speed / 4 banger / SOHC / 140 CID
Present mileage - 155,801.8
________________________________________________

1) Replaced Spark plugs, and wires two years ago.
2) Replaced Ignition switch about five years ago.
3) REPLACED 02 SENSOR FEW YEARS AGO.
RECENTLY -

June 4, 2012 -
Replaced In-line fuel filter and removed IAC valve, cleaned out.


Since then, I've replaced, or cleaned the following:
1) Replaced Cap and Rotor

2) Replaced Fuel pressure regulator

3) Replaced corroded Fuel Pump relay switch/connector to the harness.

4) Replaced corroded Multi-Function ECC/EFI Fuel Pump Relay
Switch/connector to the harness.

5) Replaced Battery - within a few months.

PROBLEM: I have experienced rough idling and when I came to a stop light, I'd have to rev up the gas to keep the engine from dying.

Thinking it was the filter, I replaced that in June, which seemed to help, but in the last couple months the engine will crank only a few times, then it would turn over on the third or fourth try.

The other day, I tried it and now it only cranks, and does not remain idling.

So, would it be safe to assume that if I smell gas after trying to start the engine several times, that would indicate a fuel problem, ( ie: clogged injectors, bad fuel pump) BUT if I don't smell gas, that would most likely be a starter, bad plugs/wires, TFI, relays, etc.?

I pulled all four plugs out today and number #1 Cylinder's gap was about twice the size if the recommended .044. The other three were close to the gap, but all had carbon at the tips.

On one of the plug wires, when I removed it, the inside round metal contact separated from the cable, and stuck on the plug....It's been a few years since I bought plugs/wires, so maybe new plugs and wires would be nice, regardless if it's been less than 3 years.

If I have this truck towed o the repair shop, he will charge me $$100.00 to diagnose the problem(s). I am trying to replace the most obvious repairs myself, BEFORE he tells me all it was bad plugs or wires. DOH!

In 26 years, I have never replaced the fuel pump, but last June of this year, I replaced filter. It was still running doggish even after this, but now nothing.

So basically, when I crank the engine, it just dogs out, and when I try to accelerate the gas, nothing happens. I turned the key on accessory and then tried to listen to the fuel pump initiate by listening with the gas cap off, but I did not hear anything at all. Maybe it is the pump.

Thanks for any insight!

 

[bozo4ford]

Thanks for the reply!
Ok, At first I thought it may be a fuel problem, but now that I can smell gas after trying to crank the engine tells me I maybe wrong but...)

Fuel pump is sending gas to the injectors, pumping rich, and hence the smell, but I think I'm not getting a spark.

I removed my distributor coil and had it tested, it's fine. The guy did not have a tester for the TFI Module ( Under distrib. cap, it's gray and elongated, with metal surface for dielectric grease, and plugs into three prong electrical.

I have replaced four of these in the past 26 years. And this part is infamous for causing these exact problems with this RANGER Model.

The other part of this 'spark" system would be the (very expensive) EEC-IV computer thingie that's inside middle cab, under dash. Don't think I ever replaced that before.

The plugs and plug wires are about 2-1/2 years old, they appear to be fine. So I will take this TFI to Autozone for them to test it tomorrow and get back here to report.

Oh yeah, Autozone's price, $45.00.....and FORD'S price? $198.65..... and the ECC-IV is a few hundred dollars. I've always sworn by buying genuine Ford motorcraft electrical parts but C'MON NOW....that's excessive! So at this point, i would love to do this......and then to do this..... but I'm frazzled.

Thanks again!

 

[Mark_88]

Well, it could be the TFI module...especially if it simply won't start. What you first described was simply hard starting and, in my experience, it was a moisture/cool engine problem even with the Tempo.

I've heard the opposite from TFI problems...when the engine is warm it is hard to start or will cut out after it has been running for a while...

No start at all could be TFI..especially after all the work you've done so far...and if you've replaced it four times I would say you should have some experience about symptoms...but not necessarily...

Another thing is the TFI may test OK...and I've read things that different brands may be the problem...is the TFI a Motorcraft part or other? Motorcraft are supposed to be the best...may be more expensive, but there is a reason for that...

EDIT: Here is a link for testing the TFI module...if you don't do it yourself, make sure it is tested properly...

http://351winsor.com/joel/Ignition_Systems/tfi2.html

 

[bozo4ford]

Thanks!

The TFI I had tested at autozone was a MOTORCRAFT part and it tested BAD. I also had two extras i had laying around, and one of those tested GOOD. So I bought the TFI Duralast Module for $46.00.

I got it home, installed it (using nthe supplies dielectric grease) and I'm back to the cranking a few times, then it starts and maintains an idle for a few minutes, then stalls out. Sometimes it wants to ide, most times it only cranks.

I located my EEC-IV on the inside cab, passengers side kick wall, behind that plastic cover, (one phillips screw, and another on the metal floor door trim)that loosens up this cover.

I DO appreciate the feedabck here and those who suggest me testing codes or checking fuel pressure,but I have no tools like that, so I'm trying (wasting my time) to figure out what's causing this. I am tempted to save time, and have it towed to a replair shop that can do diagnostics on this...(cheaper than Fords prices)

I smell gas when I crank, so fuel must be getting to the injectors. Spark is there, Distributor coil also tested GOOD.

When this was idling that one time, I removed the vac line from the VAC Hose tree, (that connects from the Fuel pressure regulator) and there was alot of suction over the metal tube on the tree.

EEC-IV, I was told, don't go out as much as the TFI (Ignition control Module )

I also replaced my Pickup coil some years ago.

So does everyone still think this may be a fuel pump problem? or an elecrical?

 

[ericlerouge]

i'd take a look at the timing first... well, before you buy a new computer. you could try to buy a used one in a junkyard... over here they put a mark on the part and you can return it if it's defective.

 

[bozo4ford]

So here is the update:

This is so crazy! I still could have engine problems like fuel pump, electrical, or emissions, etc., but all this time I was chasing something that was probably causing these problems....... on my steering column.

About three years ago or so, I replaced my key cylinder from FORD, and it was really easy to do, because (as I try to remember) the original switch had a tiny pin hole that you poke a wire in, then it releases. (...or I'm dreamin')The replacement I bought does not look like it has anything to push in to release, so if it is a faulty the switch, then I'll need to find out how to replace it.

I also replaced my TURN SIGNAL SWITCH last year, (left side with Hazard light, turn signal, and bright lights) so I hope this has nothing to do with the key cylinder on the other side.....

Anyway....I removed the two sided Column pieces from steering column, gave it a once over and used Co2 air to blow any dust out. I screwed the two phillips screws back in, I even used 2 zip ties to get a nice solid tight column, the key in the ignition is no longer loose or causing the engine stall, no matter how I played with it.

and......guess what? It started right up! I shut down and restarted several times without it stalling. UNBELIEVABLE! I would have NEVER thought it could have been my switch. Good thing I waited and did not have my truck towed to the repair shop.

So that was yesterday, and today I drove it down the street and all around and it did not once stall, also kept a steady idle.

So I certainly hope I'm out of the woods and all the other components are still good. I turned the key and hear the pump priming so that's still ok. (fingers crossed )


Thanks for all the help.

 

[Mark_88]

Cool...glad it's working finally...

Thought I posted in this thread but you have two threads going...suggested the inertia switch...but if it was the ignition switch and you fixed it you shouldn't have any problems for quite a while...otherwise...check out the inertia switch...hopefully not though...

 

[bozo4ford]

Thanks a bunch Mark,
I'm glad it's finally running again too, but NEVER would of thought it might have been caused by the loose steering column, which loosened up the key cylinder switch, to cause it to sometimes start after many cranks.

Yeah I had two threads going because of a few scenarios and wanted to pinpoint (or attract) those in the correct forums threads. Emissions, electrical, or engine.

Have you heard of anything like this before? All along, I've thought it to be confined only to engine compartment, and not to a steering column issue, but maybe I'm not out of the woods just yet, for this is a 26 yeard old truck and at this point anything can and will go wrong.

Thank you again!

 

[Mark_88]

Well, I was in the middle of typing out something that happened to me with my ignition switch quite a while ago and decided it would be better to go with the inertia switch because it seemed like something more worthwhile...

But I did have a similar problem where my engine would just die if I touched the key...that turned out to be a loose wire that I probably made loose myself by farting around with the wiper switch and didn't realize I'd done it...

Amazingly, as long as the wires are holding together and the parts aren't flying off as you drive down the road, old trucks will last a long time and serve you well. I wouldn't worry so much about the age of the truck...only being able to find parts for it when it needs them...there is an active effort to eliminate older vehicles from the road it seems because parts are getting harder to find in junk yards and I've run into finding some parts are simply no longer available in shops...or are "special order" meaning you have to wait a day or two to get them.

 

[bozo4ford]

Here we go once again!
Well, I thought everything was peachy-keeno and the truck ran for a couple of days after I replaced the TFI module (below the distributor) and fiddled around with the cylinder switch which actually, when placed in a certain position of the key, the truck would actually crank, turn over, idle, and run, like nobodies business.

But now, it's the same problem I had before all this. I know some of you suggested a pressure regulator gauge tester, but now it does not start over at all.

I suspected the EEC-IV located passenger's side, kick-wall behind the plastic shroud. So thinking I can have this diagnostically tested, I removed it, and the place that told me they could test it, no longer can do this. Now they tell me they don't have the equipment.

I called a local Ford dealership, and they wanted me to reconnect the PCM-EEC-IV, drive it in, or tow it in, and they would charge me $225.00. Plus repairs.
Sorry, I don't have that kind of money.

Anyone living in the Southern California Area of Orange County that knows of a Auto Electric Rebuilders, or can do a Diagnostic on this EEC-IV PCM computer, please let me know.

I already called Pep Boys, AutoZone and O'Reilly, as well as a place in Santa Ana , but that person will be back in two weeks.

Sure, I can sink about $200.00 including tax and Core charge and just order a new one, but at this point I'm driving in the dark. Where will this end? Fuel pump or Sock in tank clogged? I don't know.

Thanks...I'm just venting.

 

[Mark_88]

Uh oh...do you mean it actually won't crank (turn over) or that it cranks over but won't start...or is the entire system is dead?

If it simply won't crank (turn key to start and nothing happens) then you've probably got another loose wire or ground.

If the engine turns over but will not start then we are back to square one. After trying to start, you can pull one of the plugs to see if it smells like gas. If not, then fuel delivery is the problem and if your pumps are running with the key on, it is not the inertia switch...if you don't hear the pumps...either reset or bypass the inertia switch.

If none of that works and you don't smell gas on the plugs pull the vac line from the Fuel pressure regulator again and see if that smells of gas...if yes, then the regulator is gone. If no, then it could be the computer or control unit for the injectors.

It is actually not uncommon for more than one thing to go wrong within a few days/weeks/hours...I've ran into threes in my experience but that is rare...meaning I've had three different issues affecting the operation of the engine within a few hours of each other...mostly because when I finally get around to doing something I tend to try to do several things at once...so now I attend to issues ASAP and hope I don't create more in the process of fixing something...

I admire your perseverence...

 

[bozo4ford]

Mark....I like the way you said...."we are back to square one"


No, it's not turning over at all. CRANKS YES, Turns over and runs.....No.

No, it's not turning over at all. CRANKS YES, Turns over and runs.....No.

Trying to get cross reference from FORD, then giving them to Autozone, O'Reilly, or Pep Boys is like pulling teeth.

Ford gave me the wrong part number for the EEC-IV, {E8TZ12A-650-CRA}
USA Made (not Canada) 2.3L / EFI Gas / 5-Speed / 4-Cyl. Standard 2-Wheel / SOHC
These are supposed to be the correct numbers ~

PCM EEC-IV Computer (mounted Inside cab, passenger's side, kickwall)
# E69Z12A650M.

Pep Boys - BWD #ECC1635 $113.99+tx / CORE $70.00
Autozone - Cardone-Reman #78-4323 $97.99+tx/CORE $45.00.
________________________________________
Ford's Plug Wire set is# E8PZ122259A.

Pep Boys -BWD CH464 $30.99
Autozone - #4111 $ 15.99
_________________________________________

Pep Boys sold me the wrong Plug Wire set, and when I installed them, the cranking was really erratic, and shook immensely.
They gave me ProStart #CH46SP.

What I did have in my truck were - MAG XTS 8.5MM Premium Silicone Suppression

So, searching for someone to test this is non-existent in this area, so instead of shipping it out to get tested, with postage, I might as well just buy a new one for $100.00, and hope that's the problem I'm having. I know some will tell me to read codes, but I do not know how.