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why all "water car/hydrogen generators" are scams

fastpakr

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The man has made lots (LOTS) of claims.

Let's start with the easiest ones...
Master's degree from Cal Tech.
Master's degree from MIT.
Nope - no record he ever attended either school.

Physicist at Los Alamos.
Nope - no record he ever worked for the facility.


Things he's definitely done?
He's been arrested repeatedly.
He's made all sorts of claims about aliens and UFO's.

If you're asking us to take his claims with an open mind, perhaps you should take his verifiable background with an open mind and consider that he might be a charlatan?
 


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RonD

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Nothing wrong with experimenting if that interests you

But an HHO cell in a vehicle is not going to help MPG, if it did car makers would have been using it for years, car's SELL based on MPG, one of the biggest drivers for specific types of cars is MPG, so car makers are not going to overlook 30% better MPG, or even 5% better

Vehicles don't generate "free" electricity, every watt/amp costs you money in fuel used to make it, one point of the voltage regulator is to save fuel cost

Does generating hydrogen work, of course, high school science class
Is it cost effective on a small scale, no

I don't think its "snake oil" just an experiment, and its always good to learn new things


People used to talk about the 200MPG carb and how the oil companies bought up all the patents to keep it quiet, lol
But if you LEARN about how gasoline engines work, and air/fuel ratios, you will see that it is the 200MPG carb that was hooey and no conspiracy existed
Same for "pre-vaporizer" or similar devices
Air/fuel is a WEIGHT ratio not volume, so it doesn't matter how much you expand/separate the molecules in volume, the WEIGHT of the molecules needed, must be in the correct ratio
14.7/1 is gasoline's ratio
14.7 POUNDS of air to 1 POUND of gasoline is required, that's just how ICE works, weight, weight, weight

HHO is often expressed in liters per minute, not weight, so that should tell you something right off the bat
 
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snoranger

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All I can say is...
Try it, keep detailed records, let us know what happens.
 

Shran

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"open mind" lol

A friend of mine got deep into a pyramid scheme and tried to recruit me. Told me to keep an open mind and that while it appears to be a pyramid to most people, if you flip it over, it's a funnel.... for money... into "my" pocket. That's what this garbage reminds me of.

Also reminds me of this local jackass who is in prison right now for hurting people with his crackpot laser scheme:
 

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Attempt to explain what is happening:

Let’s see if I can p!$$ everyone off:

Yes, there is a little ‘snake oil’ to HHO generators, but there is also a little truth. I don’t know how much an unmodified engine can benefit, but there are improvements.

So, let’s start at 1st principles – what are we trying to do?

We are trying to push a piston down a cylinder. The simplest is to use compressed air (large diesels are started this way). But compressed air is really lousy medium for storing energy. One step better is storing energy as liquid, and converting the liquid to gas and expanding the gas (CO2 cartridge works this way). But still not very good because the state change from liquid to gas and the expansion of the gas resulting in cooling of the medium which reduces the effect.

So, better solution is execute an exothermic chemical reaction (one that gives off heat, i.e. burning). E.g. 2 H2 + 1 O2 => 2 H20 or 1 C2H5OH (ethanol) + 3 O2 => 2 C02 + 3 H20 or 1 C8H18 +17 O2 => 8 C02 + 9 H20. The exothermic reaction heats the air up from e.g. 500°R to 2500°R (we must work from absolute zero, so use Rankin, not Fahrenheit, 500°R = 40°F)

The other engineering equation in play is PV= nRT, (P is Pressure; V is volume of our cylinder; n is of moles of gas in the cylinder; R is ideal gas constant and T is temperature). So, as we are only changing P, V and T; and have increased the temperature 5X, the Pressure increases 5X, causing the piston to scoot down, increasing Volume, driving the rear wheels.

Our chemical engineering friends take our formula for burning Octane (C8H18) and convert it to weighs. And come back with that ideal mixture (stoichiometric) being 14.7 lbs of air to 1lb of gasoline.

But the hot-rodding redneck comes back and says, while 14.7:1 might be the ideal, his engine makes most power when run at 12:1. Because this is the real world, 80% of air is Nitrogen. And Nitrogen doesn’t just not make a nice exothermic reaction, it also prevents some of the Oxygen and Gasoline molecules from getting it on. So, we add a little extra gasoline to use up as much oxygen as we can. Now, this has some bad side effects, the unburned fuel comes out of the exhaust as smog. (There’s more to smog than just unburned fuel, but I'm simplifying a bit), but it makes for best power. The extra fuel also cools the mixture as there also material limitations to how hot we can make things.

So, manufacturers limit the ability to run rich, and add catalytic converters to ensure all the fuel is burned.

Where is this boring engineer going with this mansplainin

This is where our “snake oil” comes in: Having some additional H2 molecules in the mixture allows for more thorough combustion. If you burn 95% of the gasoline rather than just 90%, there will be an improvement. Then add in a bit for the actual HHO that you are burning and you can reduce the throttle opening and you are getting better fuel economy.

Add in that you are thinking about fuel economy and doing some of the “hyper mileage” tricks, and you see a significant improvement.
Note: One of the items which is very hard to measure – how much are you drawing down the battery? If your alternator isn’t keeping up with the discharge caused by the HHO generator, it might not be noticeable in an hour drive. But when you come out and your truck won’t start, you will know where the extra energy came from.​

Now, you can do some other tricks that are probably better for increasing the efficiency of your engine – Increase the compression ratio (say 13:1 or more) and then use water injection/throttle manipulation to control detonation.

I played around with propane and water injection on the diesel tractor back home. Good for increased power without the “rolling coal” that tipped Dad off that you were experimenting with the family’s means of producing a living.

I didn’t have the facilities/equipment to try Bruce Crower’s 6 cycle engine (Intake, compression, power, exhaust, water injection, steam exhaust). The idea being you injected water into the hot cylinders and took advantage of the boiling to both extract power and cool the engine (little or no cooling radiator, slow down the water pump).

Tractors have the advantage of a constant speed/load and extra weight isn’t a drawback (we were adding liquid to the tires/suitcase weights anyways).
 

superj

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i say to give it a shot and tell us how it goes. i will happily follow along because i have read tons about hose hydrogen generators being put in cars and trucks to try and get better mileage. there is a dude here in corpus that used to sell the kits to install them on cars. he had everything pre-made and you just bought a kit and put it on your car. i always wanted to try one out but i never had a spare vehicle to test it out on so i never did and now that i have a spare car, i am way more interested in a gasifier since that freeze hit texas and my parents were without power for over a week in snow in central texas. they had a generator and some gas cans but not enough to keep power on the length of time it was off.

but they have tons and tons of free wood we could cut and put in a storage shed so they have it to power a gasifier generator for lights and an electric heater.
 

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The gasifier would be much easier to construct and utilize than the hydrogen system. I have looked into this for a similar situation as you superj. We have had multiple hurricanes here that have wreaked havoc on our electrical grid. One day, when I get through my list of projects, I will build a stationary gasifier for my portable generator, so I don't have to burn all my gas in the event of a long term power outage.
 

superj

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