What would you choose 2.9 turbo


Zane

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The garret GT2871R or a kkk27 both have 68%-77% efficiency for 20 psi boost from 2000-6000 rpm any other recommendations post a model and compressor map
 

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Bird76Mojo

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No way in hell any Ford 2.9L will ever hold up to that kind of boost. Not even close to those psi numbers.. Maybe for a few seconds...

2.9's were junk the second they left the engine room at Ford.

You'd be lucky if a 2.9 lasted a day on 10 psi.
 

rusty ol ranger

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No way in hell any Ford 2.9L will ever hold up to that kind of boost. Not even close to those psi numbers.. Maybe for a few seconds...

2.9's were junk the second they left the engine room at Ford.

You'd be lucky if a 2.9 lasted a day on 10 psi.
Get on youtube and see what guys are doing with the 2.9 over in europe. Might just change your opinion. Either way the 2.9 is far from junk.

@PetroleumJunkie412

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1.1 bar or 16PSI according to google translate. No scattered parts.
 
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PetroleumJunkie412

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No way in hell any Ford 2.9L will ever hold up to that kind of boost. Not even close to those psi numbers.. Maybe for a few seconds...

2.9's were junk the second they left the engine room at Ford.

You'd be lucky if a 2.9 lasted a day on 10 psi.

You and I were friends.... Were. 😑😂

But you're probably correct that a bone stock one with no heat management provisions and no upgrades to the oiling systems will find a new home in the scrap heap.

If you manage heat within a 2.9 appropriately, and show it some love in the form of lots of lube when you're being rough on it (heh), they will tolerate abuse.
 
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PetroleumJunkie412

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The garret GT2871R or a kkk27 both have 68%-77% efficiency for 20 psi boost from 2000-6000 rpm any other recommendations post a model and compressor map
Three questions... And I'm not trying to discourage you.

One, what is your planned or current exhaust setup?

Two, what do you have for heads?

Three, what do you have for cooling, and what are your plans for a backup system?

The cologne 2.9L is allergic to heat. Deathly allergic. Cooling is your TOP priority even for a daily driver. Ford really screwed the pooch with heat management on a 2.9 for the American vehicles.

In reverse order, then. At a minimum, consider a new if not true dual core radiator (1994 Explorer with towing package and A/C - biggest one that will fit into the stock core support). Or, like I did, a stock (new) radiator and a bypass coolant pump out of a BMW 5 series for when your mechanical one dies and your engine cannot circulate coolant. They're the size of two decks of cards, and for the price of a few T fittings and a boneyard pump, its cheap insurance.

Next is your stock radiator fan. It was great when it was new. Does your viscous clutch still work? If not, EBay fans for a electric 16" puller mounted inside the factory fan shroud, and a 12" pusher out front. Or, a Mercedes C230 dual pusher fits. Your call. Run one as your primary fan, the pusher as an emergency backup for when your primary fails.

Final note on coolant - DO NOT USE A STANT THERMOSTAT. Consider a Motorcraft. Or an UltraStat. One that Ford recommends, or one that fails in the open position when it fails (all thermostate WILL fail. Remember, heat is the Achilles of the 2.9L.

The two biggest heat management issues you're going to contend with are the 86TM heads and the factory exhaust manifolds. I mean every word of the following: IN MY OPINION, FORD SHOULD HAVE BEEN SUED INTO THE GROUND OVER THE FACTORY EXHAUST MANIFOLDS IN THE 2.9L COLOGNE. IN MY OPINION, THE STOCK EXHAUST MANIFOLDS CAUSED EVERY SINGLE HEAD CRACKING ISSUE ON THE 2.9L COLOGNE V6. IN MY OPINION, THE 2.9 COLOGNE STOCK EXHAUST MANIFOLD IS A EXERCISE IN HOW TO RUIN AN ENGINE, AND HOW TO CAUSE ENGINE FAILURE THROUGH NEGLIGENCE IN ENGINEERING AND DESIGN.

Now that my opinion on the factory manifolds are out of the way, the best solution you have is stainless exhaust headers. Spend the money, buy the JBA. Pacesetters do not have a good track record. My brand new JBA stainless manifolds were $250, free shipping on EBay. Someone in the for sale part of the forums has a set of gently used ones for $100. DO NOT WRAP THEM IN HEAT TAPE, THIS VOIDS THEIR LIFETIME WARRANTY.

Remove the lower shroud from your front bumper as well. This allows the headers or manifolds to dissipate heat and keeps your engine bay cooler. Seeing a theme with engineering and design yet?

If you look at your heads, and they have an "89TM" stamped on them, congratulations, you won the 2.9L lottery. Double points if they say "World Products." If they say "86TM" its your call on what to do next. J&C Enterprises in Fairmont, WV builds an incredible set of heads, especially for the money. https://thecylinderheadshop.com/

Heads, manifolds, and coolant are your three primary concerns. After those, you're probably going to want to monitor your oil situation and timing situation. Look into a Cloyes timing kit and a Melling high volume oil pump. You're going to need to supply that compressor with oil, and though the factory one may be adequate, why gamble on a 30+ year old engine?

Pull your valve covers, remove your rockers, and clean the rocker shafts. They're probably packed with sludge and varnish.

IF you can keep the 2.9L cool and well oiled, it is a fantastic little engine. If not, well, see @Bird76Mojo 's post.

Following all of this, look on here for a member named @DCinDC. He built a very successful turbo 2.9L. My current build is for a supercharged 2.9L. I am still in the phases of getting the engine prepped for the blower, and I am on the computer portion as of recent weeks. My truck is daily driven, so my build is taking the scenic route. @deathbypsi is one of the resident computer/ECU gurus. Look for his posts and youtube videos. The man is a wealth of information.

I have electronic copies of the bibles for building the 2.9L: Sven Pruitt's V6 builders book, the Ford ECU book, and a few others. I will post links to them if you need them. Read them cover to cover. The Cologne family of engines are European designed and built. This ain't your daddy's 302. They're unique and a challenge to build, but very rewarding when you do.
 
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Zane

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No way in hell any Ford 2.9L will ever hold up to that kind of boost. Not even close to those psi numbers.. Maybe for a few seconds...

2.9's were junk the second they left the engine room at Ford.

You'd be lucky if a 2.9 lasted a day on 10 psi.
Guess you've never heard of the scorpio or Granada look them up plenty have been turbocharged. Good thing I have a cryo treated 2.9 with forged internals and heavy duty heads. But hey let's throw up a response on the forced induction section that's formed on assumption. The question was about compression maps and turbos not if a 2.9 will handle it. Which it will. plenty of euro ford production 2.9ls well into 500+ on stock bottoms with minor upgrades. If I wanted to drop the 3k in work I did to my block on a (v8/v6 engine of choice) I would have but I didnt so go clog someone else's post with your unhelpful attitude.

P.S. take a hint from PetroleumJunkie412 that's how you make a helpful post if you need a reference.
 
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Zane

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Three questions... And I'm not trying to discourage you.

One, what is your planned or current exhaust setup?

Two, what do you have for heads?

Three, what do you have for cooling, and what are your plans for a backup system?

The cologne 2.9L is allergic to heat. Deathly allergic. Cooling is your TOP priority even for a daily driver. Ford really screwed the pooch with heat management on a 2.9 for the American vehicles.

In reverse order, then. At a minimum, consider a new if not true dual core radiator (1994 Explorer with towing package and A/C - biggest one that will fit into the stock core support). Or, like I did, a stock (new) radiator and a bypass coolant pump out of a BMW 5 series for when your mechanical one dies and your engine cannot circulate coolant. They're the size of two decks of cards, and for the price of a few T fittings and a boneyard pump, its cheap insurance.

Next is your stock radiator fan. It was great when it was new. Does your viscous clutch still work? If not, EBay fans for a electric 16" puller mounted inside the factory fan shroud, and a 12" pusher out front. Or, a Mercedes C230 dual pusher fits. Your call. Run one as your primary fan, the pusher as an emergency backup for when your primary fails.

Final note on coolant - DO NOT USE A STANT THERMOSTAT. Consider a Motorcraft. Or an UltraStat. One that Ford recommends, or one that fails in the open position when it fails (all thermostate WILL fail. Remember, heat is the Achilles of the 2.9L.

The two biggest heat management issues you're going to contend with are the 86TM heads and the factory exhaust manifolds. I mean every word of the following: IN MY OPINION, FORD SHOULD HAVE BEEN SUED INTO THE GROUND OVER THE FACTORY EXHAUST MANIFOLDS IN THE 2.9L COLOGNE. IN MY OPINION, THE STOCK EXHAUST MANIFOLDS CAUSED EVERY SINGLE HEAD CRACKING ISSUE ON THE 2.9L COLOGNE V6. IN MY OPINION, THE 2.9 COLOGNE STOCK EXHAUST MANIFOLD IS A EXERCISE IN HOW TO RUIN AN ENGINE, AND HOW TO CAUSE ENGINE FAILURE THROUGH NEGLIGENCE IN ENGINEERING AND DESIGN.

Now that my opinion on the factory manifolds are out of the way, the best solution you have is stainless exhaust headers. Spend the money, buy the JBA. Pacesetters do not have a good track record. My brand new JBA stainless manifolds were $250, free shipping on EBay. Someone in the for sale part of the forums has a set of gently used ones for $100. DO NOT WRAP THEM IN HEAT TAPE, THIS VOIDS THEIR LIFETIME WARRANTY.

Remove the lower shroud from your front bumper as well. This allows the headers or manifolds to dissipate heat and keeps your engine bay cooler. Seeing a theme with engineering and design yet?

If you look at your heads, and they have an "89TM" stamped on them, congratulations, you won the 2.9L lottery. Double points if they say "World Products." If they say "86TM" its your call on what to do next. J&C Enterprises in Fairmont, WV builds an incredible set of heads, especially for the money. https://thecylinderheadshop.com/

Heads, manifolds, and coolant are your three primary concerns. After those, you're probably going to want to monitor your oil situation and timing situation. Look into a Cloyes timing kit and a Melling high volume oil pump. You're going to need to supply that compressor with oil, and though the factory one may be adequate, why gamble on a 30+ year old engine?

Pull your valve covers, remove your rockers, and clean the rocker shafts. They're probably packed with sludge and varnish.

IF you can keep the 2.9L cool and well oiled, it is a fantastic little engine. If not, well, see @Bird76Mojo 's post.

Following all of this, look on here for a member named @DCinDC. He built a very successful turbo 2.9L. My current build is for a supercharged 2.9L. I am still in the phases of getting the engine prepped for the blower, and I am on the computer portion as of recent weeks. My truck is daily driven, so my build is taking the scenic route. @deathbypsi is one of the resident computer/ECU gurus. Look for his posts and youtube videos. The man is a wealth of information.

I have electronic copies of the bibles for building the 2.9L: Sven Pruitt's V6 builders book, the Ford ECU book, and a few others. I will post links to them if you need them. Read them cover to cover. The Cologne family of engines are European designed and built. This ain't your daddy's 302. They're unique and a challenge to build, but very rewarding when you do.
So I'll try and hit all the questions in one go. Starting with a block I had cryo treated heavy duty heads not wp but of = or better quality and forged internals also cryo. The whole long block is rebuilt and stored in my shop right now waiting to be installed. I have new performance injectors and a matching fuelpump to keep up with the flow on order. Replacing radiator with a performance all aluminum unit and switching to electric fans pull and push. Adding a separate trans cooler off a f150 and may do the same for oil. debating on electric cooling pump to prevent overheat do to belt failure. Was still on the hunt for headers but you just solved that issue.
Was going to rear mount but this is for a 4x4 that will see non road use at some point and I feel like water and mud may hurt the turbos ability to breathe. For the oil pump I'm mounting a separate pump for the turbo with it's own filter and tank (turbos are expensive dont want to replace one any time soon). Engine management I'm currently talking to a local tuning company will go with there recommended system so they can tune it. (Never have tuned a car/truck and not about to try on a already 6k investment.)

I would appreciate those doc.'s if you have a link for them.

As for dcindc I was going to try his but I'm going for higher boost than he was pushing and dont have enough info on his build to feel comfortable copying it. He did however spark my decision to turbo in the first place.

I have learned that the states support for the 2.9l is minimal compared to the EU forums online. It's where I try to get a lot of my info but having to translate is a pain.
 
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Bird76Mojo

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I suppose I should have stated was I was thinking, i.e. a stock Ford 2.9, not one that someone has invested over 3K on forged internals and aftermarket heads, which wasn't mentioned in the OP.

One question: is the Euro version the same block, internals, and heads that the US got?
 

PetroleumJunkie412

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PetroleumJunkie412

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So I'll try and hit all the questions in one go. Starting with a block I had cryo treated heavy duty heads not wp but of = or better quality and forged internals also cryo. The whole long block is rebuilt and stored in my shop right now waiting to be installed. I have new performance injectors and a matching fuelpump to keep up with the flow on order. Replacing radiator with a performance all aluminum unit and switching to electric fans pull and push. Adding a separate trans cooler off a f150 and may do the same for oil. debating on electric cooling pump to prevent overheat do to belt failure. Was still on the hunt for headers but you just solved that issue.
Was going to rear mount but this is for a 4x4 that will see non road use at some point and I feel like water and mud may hurt the turbos ability to breathe. For the oil pump I'm mounting a separate pump for the turbo with it's own filter and tank (turbos are expensive dont want to replace one any time soon). Engine management I'm currently talking to a local tuning company will go with there recommended system so they can tune it. (Never have tuned a car/truck and not about to try on a already 6k investment.)

I would appreciate those doc.'s if you have a link for them.

As for dcindc I was going to try his but I'm going for higher boost than he was pushing and dont have enough info on his build to feel comfortable copying it. He did however spark my decision to turbo in the first place.

I have learned that the states support for the 2.9l is minimal compared to the EU forums online. It's where I try to get a lot of my info but having to translate is a pain.
Pm me for manuals. Also if you need help with the German and Russian forums. Ich spreche Deutsch. :icon_thumby:
 

Zane

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I suppose I should have stated was I was thinking, i.e. a stock Ford 2.9, not one that someone has invested over 3K on forged internals and aftermarket heads, which wasn't mentioned in the OP.

One question: is the Euro version the same block, internals, and heads that the US got?
I didn't think it was relevant to the question to add that info specifically. Didn't mind doing so if someone wants it. But I provided all the relevant info to compare the two turbos.

Yes same internals no different heads. Stock block is generally good for 450hp reliable 550hp uper limit as far as I can gather from the EU pages and people I have spoken to from that part of the world.

Sorry to jump down your throat. You caught all the pent up 2.9 bashing. I dont mind it most of the time but I tried to make this post about the turbos and compressor maps to avoid all that.
 

PetroleumJunkie412

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I didn't think it was relevant to the question to add that info specifically. Didn't mind doing so if someone wants it. But I provided all the relevant info to compare the two turbos.

Yes same internals no different heads. Stock block is generally good for 450hp reliable 550hp uper limit as far as I can gather from the EU pages and people I have spoken to from that part of the world.

Sorry to jump down your throat. You caught all the pent up 2.9 bashing. I dont mind it most of the time but I tried to make this post about the turbos and compressor maps to avoid all that.
Maaaaaaaaaaannnnnnn you came to the wrong place to be a 2.9 fan. I think @rusty ol ranger and I may be the last two active members that are running them 😂

On the other hand, welcome to the 2.9 Mafia. *In Pat Kunz we trust*
 

rusty ol ranger

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Maaaaaaaaaaannnnnnn you came to the wrong place to be a 2.9 fan. I think @rusty ol ranger and I may be the last two active members that are running them 😂

On the other hand, welcome to the 2.9 Mafia. *In Pat Kunz we trust*
Dont worry. We're a small group of warriors, but strong and resiliant. Kind of like the 2.9 :)

I get tired of the 2.9 bashing on this site. But ive fought it since 02 and at times even poke fun at myself for doing so.

However, the fact remains the 2.9 is a vastly undercredited engine (even in stock form) that is ONLY under credited because the 4.0 bolts in place of it.

The 2.9 is literally the 4.0s daddy.

Does it crack heads? Yes.
Does it tick? Yes.
Is it quirky? Yes.

But its 177 CID of pure personality.
 

Zane

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Dont worry. We're a small group of warriors, but strong and resiliant. Kind of like the 2.9 :)

I get tired of the 2.9 bashing on this site. But ive fought it since 02 and at times even poke fun at myself for doing so.

However, the fact remains the 2.9 is a vastly undercredited engine (even in stock form) that is ONLY under credited because the 4.0 bolts in place of it.

The 2.9 is literally the 4.0s daddy.

Does it crack heads? Yes.
Does it tick? Yes.
Is it quirky? Yes.

But its 177 CID of pure personality.
Every engine has its qualities a swap isnt always the answer to me. If I want to drive a v8 I'll hop in my 1986 351w f150 or 1990 383 k1500 And as for the 4.0 it's not any better for building than the 2.9 as far as I've read. If anything it's more expensive. I got the truck because it was an 1987 first gen and it was 600 bucks running Knowing I could build the 2.9 and see good performance was just a bonus otherwise I would have did the restore and drove it stock. I just love that first gen body engine and all. One day I hope my 1987 will end up on that front page and when it does I want it to say 2.9l
 

rusty ol ranger

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Every engine has its qualities a swap isnt always the answer to me. If I want to drive a v8 I'll hop in my 1986 351w f150 or 1990 383 k1500 And as for the 4.0 it's not any better for building than the 2.9 as far as I've read. If anything it's more expensive. I got the truck because it was an 1987 first gen and it was 600 bucks running Knowing I could build the 2.9 and see good performance was just a bonus otherwise I would have did the restore and drove it stock. I just love that first gen body engine and all. One day I hope my 1987 will end up on that front page and when it does I want it to say 2.9l
Then git -r- dun bud. Ill be lookin forward to some spotlight bein put on the 2.9 for a change.
 


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