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Vapor Separator Fuel Filter - Return line to tank?


bbbc3

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After a lot of research online about my truck sputtering and losing power for 1-3 seconds only on hot days, it seems that vapor lock is the culprit. I found a YouTube video online that describes my exact symptoms and how to resolve it. Short answer, vapor separator fuel filter. See video below.

The installation seems very simple. My question: is this small line on the charcoal canister a vapor return line to the fuel tank? If so, would it be safe to use on the vapor separator fuel filter?

58797


58796


Blake
 

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Dirtman

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Fuel injection also cures vapor lock. :icon_rofl:
 

bbbc3

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:LOL: This is true!!! lol I was looking for a cheaper solution. :)
 

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The small line is not a return to the tank. There is a check valve that plugs into a rubber grommet on the top of the tank. As pressure builds in the tank, vapors are vented from the tank, through that line, where they’re stored in the charcoal canister until the computer opens the canister purge valve solenoid.

Nothing is connected to the carbon canister in your picture. Vapor lock happens when fuel in the fuel line becomes to hit and turns to vapor before entering the carburetor float bowl. It is very unlikely this is your issue.
 

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Yes, wouldn't be EVAP canister that would be the issue, just loosen gas cap and see if it gets better

EVAP canister on an 1985 would just have a vacuum line(smaller hose) that runs to upper carb(ported vacuum) and then a vapor hose that runs back to the top of the gas tank

When engine is idling there is none, to very little, vacuum in that hose, check that to make sure its hooked up correctly
When you are accelerating or cruising then there is more vacuum to canister so it will start to pull in fumes from the gas tank because when driving the gas in the tank is sloshing around which creates more fumes, than when stopped and idling
So check that the vacuum line is hooked to ported vacuum(above throttle plate), not regular vacuum(below throttle plate)


Vapor lock only occurs in low or no pressure metal fuel lines
It was a common occurrence in warm weather in a metal fuel line from gas tank to engine powered fuel pump, so 0 pressure area, and happened where metal fuel line was near an exhaust pipe/manifold
The gasoline would "boil" when it got to the HOT metal area of the fuel line, this would block the flow of fuel to the pump
In the "old days" we(southern Calif) would clip on wooden cloths pins to that area of fuel line to dissipate any heat build up, lol
Some would install a Heat Shield between exhaust and fuel line

If your engine is also running hot then fuel in the float bowl, also 0 pressure, can "boil" which is similar to vapor lock symptoms, so figure out WHY engine is running too hot
 

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Yes I need to figure out why it is getting so hot that it vaporizes the fuel? I will check my engine fan clutch. If that has failed, that would make about the 3rd failure on that. I can't figure out why these fan clutches keep failing? Maybe I need a new engine fan as well? The radiator is pretty new. This is an issue I've been trying to figure out for some time now.

Any engine/engine bay cooling tricks would be helpful! I'm not cutting vents into the hood though.
 

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Made in China is the main problem with the newer car parts lately. These are not the only models having fan clutch failures.
 

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Yes I need to figure out why it is getting so hot that it vaporizes the fuel? I will check my engine fan clutch. If that has failed, that would make about the 3rd failure on that. I can't figure out why these fan clutches keep failing? Maybe I need a new engine fan as well? The radiator is pretty new. This is an issue I've been trying to figure out for some time now.

Any engine/engine bay cooling tricks would be helpful! I'm not cutting vents into the hood though.
If your thermostat is on the lower radiator hose the engine will run alot hotter. There is a two piece thermostat housing that goes on the intake manifold if your lucky you can find one. Ideally you can replace the whole manifold and run the bypass from the upper thermostat housing down to the lower fitting on the water pump. Otherwise I just plugged the original bypass fitting on the intake manifold as it is no longer used. i believe the engine I got the thermostat housing was a 1985 B-II with air conditioning from the bone yard. I still have the vapor issue but if you just slowly press the throttle about half way down on hot starts it will fire right up and idle rough for a few seconds until it smooths out.
 

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Also if it blows black smoke on hot starts you need to replace the valve guide seals. There is a article in the tech library on how to without pulling the heads. I used a palm valve spring compressor an air pressure to hold the valves up. Just a FYI
 

bbbc3

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My thermostat is on the upper radiator hose. After I finish my rear bumper this will be my focus for this summer. I will find a solution and report back to you guys.

Also, my truck never completely dies. The only symptom it has is that it the engine feels like it looses fuel for about 3 seconds. Just when I think I should pull over on the side of the road, it comes back to life and I continue on. This is on days over 75 degrees. Also after hot drives and I park it for 15-20 minutes, when I try to start the truck I have to floor the gas pedal to get it to start.

Here is a regular example of my issue: I was driving on the hwy at 70mph+ for 30 minutes. I pull off the hwy to go through a drive-thru. After leaving the restaurant and pulling out on the road, 1st gear is fine, second gear it loses fuel and jerks and sputters. Right when I think that I better pull off the road comes back to life and drives somewhat normal.
 

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"My thermostat is on the upper radiator hose. " <<< 2.8 Ford has the thermostat down on the bottom of the block

In my 78Pinto I had problems with fuel locking up. A bit different issue as I run a small electric pump down at the tank to get fuel into the carb. The pressure was too great for the carb so I placed in a "MrGasket" fuel regulator into the line. (non stock built 2.8) There is no return line on this set up. It solved my issues, however this year I did get a small lock up. and realized that it could have been caused by "E" added fuel. As my V8 truck is/has been also having serious lock up. (no return electric pump and had a plastic clear filter in the line) that was actually so hot it was boiling in the filter. Took out the filter, added a "MrGasket" regulator here and also wrapped the fuel line with heat wrap to see how this will help.

From doing some reading I have found that "ethenol" added fuels will lower the boiling temp of the fuel. I am now going to be testing this theory by only buying NON-E added gas.

cheers hope any of this adds to the problem
 

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My thermostat is on the upper radiator hose. After I finish my rear bumper this will be my focus for this summer. I will find a solution and report back to you guys.

Also, my truck never completely dies. The only symptom it has is that it the engine feels like it looses fuel for about 3 seconds. Just when I think I should pull over on the side of the road, it comes back to life and I continue on. This is on days over 75 degrees. Also after hot drives and I park it for 15-20 minutes, when I try to start the truck I have to floor the gas pedal to get it to start.

Here is a regular example of my issue: I was driving on the hwy at 70mph+ for 30 minutes. I pull off the hwy to go through a drive-thru. After leaving the restaurant and pulling out on the road, 1st gear is fine, second gear it loses fuel and jerks and sputters. Right when I think that I better pull off the road comes back to life and drives somewhat normal.
Reads like gasoline in the carb's float bowl is getting to hot, I assume this happens more in warmer weather than when it cold outside
Not sure if they make a carb spacer for the 2.8l but that would help prevent that
Also I would run a 160degF thermostat on the lower rad hose instead of the 180degF, that can help also

What happens when you shut off a warm engine is that the water pump and fan stop running, so engine bay starts to get very warm at the top
And the top of the intake, where the carb sits, starts to get very hot as well, the gasoline in float bowl will start to evaporate pretty fast not boil but close, lol
So when you try to restart there is not enough fuel left, as you crank the engine fuel is pumped in so it can re-start
Same with idling in a line up, but some fuel is left so engine doesn't die but not enough fuel so it stumbles when you open throttle more

So spacing the carb away from the hot intake metal or reducing the over all temp(cooler thermostat) can help


There is also "vapor lock" when mechanical fuel pumps are used
The fuel from the gas tank to the mechanical pump on the engine is at 0psi, so the metal fuel line gets hot enough where it pass by the exhaust pipe the fuel inside can "vaporize" which blocks fuel flow to the pump, it expands and pushes fuel back into the tank
"Back in the day" we used to use wooden cloths pin clamped onto the metal pipe as heat sinks to bleed off extra heat, lol
 

bbbc3

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"My thermostat is on the upper radiator hose. " <<< 2.8 Ford has the thermostat down on the bottom of the block

In my 78Pinto I had problems with fuel locking up. A bit different issue as I run a small electric pump down at the tank to get fuel into the carb. The pressure was too great for the carb so I placed in a "MrGasket" fuel regulator into the line. (non stock built 2.8) There is no return line on this set up. It solved my issues, however this year I did get a small lock up. and realized that it could have been caused by "E" added fuel. As my V8 truck is/has been also having serious lock up. (no return electric pump and had a plastic clear filter in the line) that was actually so hot it was boiling in the filter. Took out the filter, added a "MrGasket" regulator here and also wrapped the fuel line with heat wrap to see how this will help.

From doing some reading I have found that "ethenol" added fuels will lower the boiling temp of the fuel. I am now going to be testing this theory by only buying NON-E added gas.

cheers hope any of this adds to the problem
I actually saw this during my research as well and have been running non-ethanol gas for the past couple of weeks. It’s hasn’t stumbled yet BUT we haven’t had any really hot days so it’s too early to tell. So far, so good.
 

bbbc3

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Reads like gasoline in the carb's float bowl is getting to hot, I assume this happens more in warmer weather than when it cold outside
Not sure if they make a carb spacer for the 2.8l but that would help prevent that
Also I would run a 160degF thermostat on the lower rad hose instead of the 180degF, that can help also

What happens when you shut off a warm engine is that the water pump and fan stop running, so engine bay starts to get very warm at the top
And the top of the intake, where the carb sits, starts to get very hot as well, the gasoline in float bowl will start to evaporate pretty fast not boil but close, lol
So when you try to restart there is not enough fuel left, as you crank the engine fuel is pumped in so it can re-start
Same with idling in a line up, but some fuel is left so engine doesn't die but not enough fuel so it stumbles when you open throttle more

So spacing the carb away from the hot intake metal or reducing the over all temp(cooler thermostat) can help


There is also "vapor lock" when mechanical fuel pumps are used
The fuel from the gas tank to the mechanical pump on the engine is at 0psi, so the metal fuel line gets hot enough where it pass by the exhaust pipe the fuel inside can "vaporize" which blocks fuel flow to the pump, it expands and pushes fuel back into the tank
"Back in the day" we used to use wooden cloths pin clamped onto the metal pipe as heat sinks to bleed off extra heat, lol
I think the clothes pins are the next step followed by the carb spacer. I’m attempting one theroy at a time so I can pinpoint what helps.
 

bbbc3

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*Update* So I've been running Non-Ethanol fuel in my truck for the past few weeks. We finally had a very hot day of 90+ degrees with a heat index of over 100. I ran my air condition during my commute from work to home in stop and go traffic, 15 minute drive. This would normally cause vapor lock or fuel boiling of some sort. IT RAN PERFECTLY the entire way home! No bucking or dying from fuel starvation. I'm going to continue to monitor this and update this thread for any future readers.

Blake
 


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