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"UPdate"A/C is being a pain in my *ss

Vindictus

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Last July I replaced my complete a/c. New compressor dryer orifice tube condenser and both lines. I flushed the resonator. I pulled a vacuum it held over night. Charged it and it worked just fine all last summer. Not so this spring, The compressor won't start.
This is what I've done so far.
1. checked pressure 40lbs low side , 20lbs high side
2. installed new OEM pressure switch
3. checked fuse, it is fine
4. checked continuity on the clutch and there is continuity
5. The relay is the only thing I don't know how to check if it's good

I bought everything at rockauto and have been reading here found this last night
How exactly did they determine that the compressor is shot without seeing it function...? I mean...it very well could be bad from your description about it making weird noises... but what exactly did they tell you?

I have used all of those brands of parts. Four Seasons seems to be decent quality. GPD is cheap junk IMO. UAC is somewhere in the middle. I used a Denso compressor recently, works fine, probably will be just fine, fit/finish was a bit lacking compared to the Motorcraft part it replaced. Of those I would probably not buy GPD ever again.
I bought the GPD kit at rockauto looks like not a good pic on my part

In my head if everything is working but the compressor why doesn't the belt slip when the clutch engages?
Is this worth putting more time in to it or just warranty the compressor?
 


rubydist

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If you have power at the compressor clutch but no engagement, most likely the clutch gap is too large. I forget the exact gap that is specified, but its pretty small. If your new clutch wore during that first year of use, its entirely possible that the gap is too large. The gap is adjusted by the shims behind the outer half of the clutch - you remove the center bolt that holds on the outer part of the clutch and remove the outer part of the clutch. Behind that you will find usually 2 shims - one thick and one thin. Depending on how wide that gap is, you may be able to just remove the thin shim, or you may have to find one that is ~.010" thinner to use in its place.
 

RonD

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The Engine Computer(PCM) activates the AC Clutch relay when it gets the 12volt "demand signal" from the dash switch

In 2007 and up, 12v(fuse 27) is sent out of the dash switch and THRU the 2 pressure switches to the PCM pin 15
PCM will then Ground pin 14 which activates the AC Clutch relay in engine fuse box

Pressure switch should have a green/blue stripe wire, that's the wire to PCM, if that wire has 12volts then PCM will activate the AC relay
The 12v from the dash switch comes into pressure switch on a green/orange wire

PCM control allows the PCM to shut off AC if engine is over heating(ECT sensor) or if driver wants best power, i.e. Wide Open Throttle(WOT)
It also allowed PCM to turn on electric cooling fan in 2.3l models, with AC on

Ford used a Micro-relay for AC Clutch, seen here: http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/images/micro-automotive-relay-wiring.jpg

Pull out the relay
85 and 86 slots are the coil hook ups, key on, test both for 12v, only one should have 12v from engine fuse box fuse 43
The other slot is the Ground from PCM, there is no assigned 85 or 86 so can be either way
Start engine, turn switch on dash to AC
Test if this "other slot" is a Ground
If not then PCM is not getting the 12v from dash
If so then PCM is seeing the 12v so pressure switch is not the issue

Key off
Test slots 30 and 87, only one should have 12v, from fuse 25 in engine fuse box
The other one is the OUT to AC clutch coil
If you were to jumper these 2 slots together the AC clutch should activate, "click" if its working, engine or key on or off wouldn't matter, should still click as the coil becomes a magnet and pulls the clutch IN
 

Shran

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I bought the GPD kit at rockauto looks like not a good pic on my part

In my head if everything is working but the compressor why doesn't the belt slip when the clutch engages?
Is this worth putting more time in to it or just warranty the compressor?
Maybe I will be proven wrong over time but the GPD parts are/were way less expensive than anything else and they just looked very cheaply made compared to the originals. I have enough of that stuff on my trucks that I hope they will hold up over time.

I wouldn't mess with a warranty deal on the compressor until you have ruled everything else out. Try Ron's suggestion and see if you can get the AC clutch to activate. Maybe be a simple wiring issue.
 

55trucker

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Last July I replaced my complete a/c. New compressor dryer orifice tube condenser and both lines. I flushed the resonator. I pulled a vacuum it held over night. Charged it and it worked just fine all last summer. Not so this spring, The compressor won't start.
This is what I've done so far.
1. checked pressure 40lbs low side , 20lbs high side
2. installed new OEM pressure switch
3. checked fuse, it is fine
4. checked continuity on the clutch and there is continuity
5. The relay is the only thing I don't know how to check if it's good
Ok, let's start again, when you connect your manifold gauges to their repsective ports what is the overall system pressure? do not start the system, the pressure throughout should be equal everywhere, the discharge & suction side should be the same pressure. What is it?
 

Vindictus

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Ok, let's start again, when you connect your manifold gauges to their repsective ports what is the overall system pressure? do not start the system, the pressure throughout should be equal everywhere, the discharge & suction side should be the same pressure. What is it?
the pressure with motor off is 26lbs on both the high side and the low side. I'm going to grab a bit to eat then try what RonD said.
 

55trucker

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Alright,

under normal circumstances a fully charged system will display between 85 -95lbs pressure.

so if you're only seeing 26lbs it's no wonder at it that the system will not engage. A minimum of 50lbs needs to be in there to allow the low pressure side (as observed by the suction side gauge) to rise & fall from approx 42lbs to 28lbs (compressor engage pressure to compressor disengage pressure) via the low pressure cycling switch. The compressor is a fixed displacement design, it does not stay engaged all the time.

You have a loss of refrigerant.
 
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Vindictus

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235/75/15
The Engine Computer(PCM) activates the AC Clutch relay when it gets the 12volt "demand signal" from the dash switch

In 2007 and up, 12v(fuse 27) is sent out of the dash switch and THRU the 2 pressure switches to the PCM pin 15
PCM will then Ground pin 14 which activates the AC Clutch relay in engine fuse box

Pressure switch should have a green/blue stripe wire, that's the wire to PCM, if that wire has 12volts then PCM will activate the AC relay
The 12v from the dash switch comes into pressure switch on a green/orange wire

PCM control allows the PCM to shut off AC if engine is over heating(ECT sensor) or if driver wants best power, i.e. Wide Open Throttle(WOT)
It also allowed PCM to turn on electric cooling fan in 2.3l models, with AC on

Ford used a Micro-relay for AC Clutch, seen here: http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/images/micro-automotive-relay-wiring.jpg

Pull out the relay
85 and 86 slots are the coil hook ups, key on, test both for 12v, only one should have 12v from engine fuse box fuse 43
The other slot is the Ground from PCM, there is no assigned 85 or 86 so can be either way
Start engine, turn switch on dash to AC
Test if this "other slot" is a Ground
If not then PCM is not getting the 12v from dash
If so then PCM is seeing the 12v so pressure switch is not the issue

Key off
Test slots 30 and 87, only one should have 12v, from fuse 25 in engine fuse box
The other one is the OUT to AC clutch coil
If you were to jumper these 2 slots together the AC clutch should activate, "click" if its working, engine or key on or off wouldn't matter, should still click as the coil becomes a magnet and pulls the clutch IN
I tested slots 85 and 86. 86 has 12.39V, 85 is ground and is grounded.
I tested slot 30 and 87. 30 has 12V and when I jumped them the clutch clicks.
So where does this leave me?
 

55trucker

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As I said............you have a refrigerant loss.
 

Vindictus

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Alright,

under normal circumstances a fully charged system will display between 85 -95lbs pressure.

so if you're only seeing 26lbs it's no wonder at it that the system will not engage. A minimum of 50lbs needs to be in there to allow the low pressure side (as observed by the suction side gauge) to rise & fall from approx 42lbs to 28lbs (compressor engage pressure to compressor disengage pressure) via the low pressure cycling switch. The compressor is a fixed displacement design, it does not stay engaged all the time.

You have a loss of refrigerant.
you are correct sir. I started topping it up pressure went good until it hit 50lbs. compressor was turning on and off ( run for 3-5 seconds shut off for same time repeat) started looking for a leak and low and behold the line coming out of the condenser going to the dryer is just pissing coolant right at the compressor fitting . Can i change the o-ring with out changing the dryer?
 

55trucker

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Yes you can, but you have to it quickly, & draw a vacuum almost immediately. Seeing as you state that there is lubricant loss is it dramatic?....or just a minor stain?
 

Vindictus

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Yes you can, but you have to it quickly, & draw a vacuum almost immediately. Seeing as you state that there is lubricant loss is it dramatic?....or just a minor stain?
Yes it is dramatic. spraying out all around the fitting. reminded me of a leaking steam fitting
 

55trucker

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Hmmmmmmmm........that would suggest that a Pag charge would be in order....as to how much has been lost is an unknown, but an .oz wouldn't hurt.

Tell me, seeing as you're in NB, what are you using as a refrigerant? is it R134a or a substitute?
 
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Vindictus

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55trucker

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mild
Thought so..........lol, thx to our gov not allowing the sale of 134a to the general public.

any oil charge should match the refrigerant you have in the system, but it needs to be Pag 46
 

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