Twin stick transfer cases…

[JoshT]

FWIW my 205 is on a 2004 5 speed transmission, it is the standard fullsize Ford 6 bolt pattern.

Mounting it isn't quite the problem, not directly anyway. Finding a good married 205 is the one of the issues given how old they are now. The other is that, if I can find one of those, I'll also need to change the transmission to use it. The 68-72 F-100 4x4 used a Dana 21 single speed transfer case mounted to a 2wd NP435. The 205 and the transfer case adapter will not bolt to my existing transmission. So I'm really looking for a 435/205 combo.

Frankly I don't need the 205, a later transfer case would work just fine and be plenty strong enough for my purposes. If I'm going to swap to a later more available transmission, I might as well buy the matching transfer case right along with it. IIRC a ZF 5/6 & transfer case from behind a 5.4 or 6.8 V10 would be a good option and adapters are available to put a mod motor transmission behind the FE. Hell, I'd go for the ZF-6 and NP271 that's behind the 7.3 in my F-250 (buying another set of course), but the gearing is way off for a gasoline engine from what I understand.

Just so happens that the Mod motor transmissions would also work behind the Godzilla. If did the transmission/transfer case swap first then decided to go Godzilla instead of FE rebuild I'd be covered with the exception of possibly having to get driveshafts remade again.

This ain't about my projects though. I was just sympothizing with Lil_blue's parts hunting delemas. We seem to be sharing a few parts availability issues among our projects.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Mounting it isn't quite the problem, not directly anyway. Finding a good married 205 is the one of the issues given how old they are now. The other is that, if I can find one of those, I'll also need to change the transmission to use it. The 68-72 F-100 4x4 used a Dana 21 single speed transfer case mounted to a 2wd NP435. The 205 and the transfer case adapter will not bolt to my existing transmission. So I'm really looking for a 435/205 combo.

Frankly I don't need the 205, a later transfer case would work just fine and be plenty strong enough for my purposes. If I'm going to swap to a later more available transmission, I might as well buy the matching transfer case right along with it. IIRC a ZF 5/6 & transfer case from behind a 5.4 or 6.8 V10 would be a good option and adapters are available to put a mod motor transmission behind the FE. Hell, I'd go for the ZF-6 and NP271 that's behind the 7.3 in my F-250 (buying another set of course), but the gearing is way off for a gasoline engine from what I understand.

Just so happens that the Mod motor transmissions would also work behind the Godzilla. If did the transmission/transfer case swap first then decided to go Godzilla instead of FE rebuild I'd be covered with the exception of possibly having to get driveshafts remade again.

This ain't about my projects though. I was just sympothizing with Lil_blue's parts hunting delemas. We seem to be sharing a few parts availability issues among our projects.

FWIW, my 95 F-150 I swapped in a ZF5 years ago. The ZF5 was pretty common in 80/90’s F-250 to F-550 behind gas motors. Mine came out of a 92 F-250 with a 300-6 or 302 (small block bellhousing). 351 had a mixed bag, some were small block and some were big block. 400 and 460 were big block and then you had the diesel transmissions. My F-150 had an M5R2 and the gearing sucked for a work truck, the ZF5 is way better for what I do with the truck which means that if I’m empty or lightly loaded I start out in second gear because first is a granny gear.

Which now that I’m thinking of it, I might want to hunt down a few NP205’s and the F-150 should get one when it gets overhauled. With twin sticks. Hmm… the way I use the truck I should probably do Superduty or the older D-50 TTB and a full float rear but I really didn’t want to get away from the 5 lug pattern because then I need different rims and would end up with 16” rims or larger which screws up my tire size preference… there’s some hard decisions that need made so I can start collecting parts… the 205 is likely to happen if I can source a couple…

 

[Shran]

Still better than working with mine. If you were building from mine, one of these would still be a stretch... (at least I sprung for the big one as an example)

Predator powered Rangers are so last year.

 

[don4331]

@lil_Blue_Ford:

For your reference:
Only the Dana 20 out of Broncos and '64-65 F-100s, Dana 24 (60's F-250s) and Ford NP205s come in driver's side drop. The Bronco Dana 20 comes more/less twin-sticked out of the box

Dana 24 and some Ford NP205 are divorced.

Dana 20 & 24 have straight cut gears for low range; rest have helical gears for both high and low ranges.

Dana 300 is 'medium duty' transfer case (weighs about 45kg), NP205 is 'heavy duty' (weighs about 70 kg). There are 'flip kits' for Dana 300 for installation in driver's drop situations.

All the above transfer cases have 'short' low ranges (1.96 to 2.42) stock. And as they are OEM and OEMs didn't expect users to be driving extensively in low range, the low range gears are thin (high range gears in Dana 300 are 21mm, low range are only 16mm - yes, the output gears are larger diameter, but the center transfer gear is small). The aftermarket addresses both low range and strength for the Dana 300.

Atlas transfer case was based on the Dana 300.

A lot of individuals run a doubler to get better low range on the geared transfer cases - historically NP203/205 combo (?130kg?!) more recently the planetary gears from a chain transfer case (much lighter - only 10kg additional weight)

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The earlier Ford 205's were divorced.

I haven't delved super deep into it yet.

The kit to put a doubler on a 205 is not cheap. And then you also need the gearbox from a NP203. You basically end up with up to a 4:1 t-case.

But you get a third lever (or a fourth if you have a manual) eating cab room with a doubler as well.

VS an Atlas that does all that with only two sticks, but you lose the "middle low" option.

For me redoing everything would involve redoing driveshafts again with the doubler, maybe not with an Atlas.

Really for me going to a ZF to get a decent first gear would solve a lot of my issues. First (and for that matter reverse) seems stupid fast in a M5ODR2.

 

[SenorNoob]

First (and for that matter reverse) seems stupid fast in a M5ODR2.

I feel that way about the M5ODR1. I have to use low range to backup to anything with precision. IDK how 2wd guys hook up to a trailer.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I feel that way about the M5ODR1. I have to use low range to backup to anything with precision. IDK how 2wd guys hook up to a trailer.

Right now mine is sitting in the garage in low reverse lol.

In low range they feel about right for what they should be in high.

 

[bobbywalter]

The earlier Ford 205's were divorced.

I haven't delved super deep into it yet.

The kit to put a doubler on a 205 is not cheap. And then you also need the gearbox from a NP203. You basically end up with up to a 4:1 t-case.

But you get a third lever (or a fourth if you have a manual) eating cab room with a doubler as well.

VS an Atlas that does all that with only two sticks, but you lose the "middle low" option.

For me redoing everything would involve redoing driveshafts again with the doubler, maybe not with an Atlas.

Really for me going to a ZF to get a decent first gear would solve a lot of my issues. First (and for that matter reverse) seems stupid fast in a M5ODR2.

depends on what engine you are willing to work with...

if i spend atlas money. it will be a 4 speed atlas....no way i would get a 2 speed.


the setup from off road design is what keeps me on the fence....i can get away with only working on one shaft. not cheap.

there are shorter transmissions that can keep you in the drive shaft window as well...with a nwf or ord or behemouth underdrive to get you to doublelow.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

depends on what engine you are willing to work with...

if i spend atlas money. it will be a 4 speed atlas....no way i would get a 2 speed.


the setup from off road design is what keeps me on the fence....i can get away with only working on one shaft. not cheap.

there are shorter transmissions that can keep you in the drive shaft window as well...with a nwf or ord or behemouth underdrive to get you to doublelow.

Yeah, the money thing plus having to do driveshafts either way is kinda why I circled back to just picking on the transmission... someday... maybe

SBF ZF's are not super common but are out there.

 

[bobbywalter]

really....you only need a zf with the creeper.

your truck would be perfect.

if only they would have built them that way.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

The earlier Ford 205's were divorced.

I haven't delved super deep into it yet.

The kit to put a doubler on a 205 is not cheap. And then you also need the gearbox from a NP203. You basically end up with up to a 4:1 t-case.

But you get a third lever (or a fourth if you have a manual) eating cab room with a doubler as well.

VS an Atlas that does all that with only two sticks, but you lose the "middle low" option.

For me redoing everything would involve redoing driveshafts again with the doubler, maybe not with an Atlas.

Really for me going to a ZF to get a decent first gear would solve a lot of my issues. First (and for that matter reverse) seems stupid fast in a M5ODR2.

This is why I’m starting to think I shouldn’t just throw my F-150 back together and should put some thought into exactly what I want out of it. Do everything once and be done. It’s not like I haven’t run it for years and know what worked and what didn’t for how I use it. I’m not sure what T-case is currently in it, but it works ok with the ZF5. It’s a chain drive case and I have a suspicion it could use some repair. Guess I need to figure out what case it is and what the low range numbers are so I know how close a 205 will be to it to know if I’m going to definitely want a doubler or not.

I forget the exact numbers but IIRC, the first gear ratio in a M5ODR2 is close to second in a ZF5. It would be fine if you never really use it like a truck I guess. Best choice I made for the F-150 was making the swap and the hardest part of making the swap was local junkyards refused to sell me a ZF5 unless I could prove I had an F-250 or bigger because “it won’t fit in an F-150” despite me pointing out that the cabs are identical.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I feel that way about the M5ODR1. I have to use low range to backup to anything with precision. IDK how 2wd guys hook up to a trailer.

Very carefully and a little hard on the clutch is how it’s done with a 2wd...

I wanted to go to a 4x4 trans and a T-case in my 2000 2wd Ranger just for that kind of thing. Maybe that will happen when I do something with the truck, but that project is so far in the future at this point, I’m not stressing.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Yeah, the money thing plus having to do driveshafts either way is kinda why I circled back to just picking on the transmission... someday... maybe

SBF ZF's are not super common but are out there.

80’s and 90’s F-250 and up had the ZF5, a lot of F-250s around here had small blocks so they are reasonably common around here at the moment anyway. Once those trucks start disappearing from the junkyards it will get a little more difficult

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

80’s and 90’s F-250 and up had the ZF5, a lot of F-250s around here had small blocks so they are reasonably common around here at the moment anyway. Once those trucks start disappearing from the junkyards it will get a little more difficult

OBS are getting thin around me already.

Kind of the same story as the M5OD around me. If people didn't pony up for an automatic they didn't get 4wd either. If they wanted a 5 speed and 4wd, might as well get the bigger engine while we are at it.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

OBS are getting thin around me already.

Kind of the same story as the M5OD around me. If people didn't pony up for an automatic they didn't get 4wd either. If they wanted a 5 speed and 4wd, might as well get the bigger engine while we are at it.

Does that mean I need to source one for you and bring it to the next TRS event? Lol