thinking about 351 Cleveland build in a '90

[Angie]

Hey all,

Looking for guys who have placed a 351C into a ranger. what have you learnt from the experience, and what would you do differently if you were to do it again?

I have all I need, plus more. 3 transmissions, 2XC6 and the 1 I am thinking of using is the FMX. a 9" rear, and will take the cab off the frame to build it easier.

Not going to be a show truck, just a hack and bash sleeper. But first want to ask the guys who have done it what to expect.

Have built a 302 show truck, now just want a rubber burner.

cheers

 

[Sharky]

I cant help any with a Cleveland in Ranger but Clevelands rock !

 

[19Walt93]

Smilinjack built or is building a 95 with a Cleveland based stroker, he might have some advice for you. I used a 95 351w roller cam engine in my 93 because I had one.

I'd recommend a C6 over an FMX because it's a more modern(I know, it's from the 60's but FMX's are from the 50's), stronger, and many more parts are available. FMX's were commonly used in full size cars and police cruisers in the 70's end they were pretty durable but they weren't a performance transmission. It will be much easier to find shift kits and torque convertors for a C6.

 

[Angie]

hey shark, that's a nice looking engine, what's it in?

thanks walt, i will check that out as I did read a bit of a thread he had running a while back. was hoping he will chime in here on the build.

As for the transmissions. I knew I shouldn't have opened that can up. I prefer to look at the option of the FMX for a few reasons. They run on low parasitic drag to operate, they are very tough, and they are the pre-cursor for the AOD transmission.

My 69 Mach1 had one in it and the 351 W powered that car excellent. The transmission held up to some great *ahem* right foot....

Either way, run it till it blows then swap in a C6 .... not the end of the world.

cheers

 

[Sharky]

 

[Angie]

shark, VERY NICE!!!!

 

[19Walt93]

hey shark, that's a nice looking engine, what's it in?

thanks walt, i will check that out as I did read a bit of a thread he had running a while back. was hoping he will chime in here on the build.

As for the transmissions. I knew I shouldn't have opened that can up. I prefer to look at the option of the FMX for a few reasons. They run on low parasitic drag to operate, they are very tough, and they are the pre-cursor for the AOD transmission.

My 69 Mach1 had one in it and the 351 W powered that car excellent. The transmission held up to some great *ahem* right foot....

Either way, run it till it blows then swap in a C6 .... not the end of the world.

cheers

I wouldn't call an FMX a precursor to an AOD, it was nearly identical to the Borg Warner CW used in a bunch of stuff in the 50's. The AOD looked to me like it had FMX and TH350 influence, luckily it was a lot more durable than a TH350 could ever hope to be.

 

[Angie]

I am definitely getting excited about doing this build now. couple years back took the heads off the motor for a look see. The holes were already 4.030 so my plan was re-ring and new bearings plus a new X-hatching. I have had this engine sitting on my floor for over 12 years and bought it from a guy who had to sell it for he was moving, and had a shop full of engines and ford parts.

Took out the bump stick 2 nights back as I am getting ready to have it re-ground thinking it was a stock ford stick. To my surprise it is a ERSON TQ20 shaft, and just needs a fresh polish. very great condition. Now I am very curious to see what the crank holds... some one has done some work on this engine years ago.

This winter project is going to be fun.

cheers

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Swapping in a C shouldnt be much different then swapping in a W.

As far as trannys ive always seen the FMX as a step above a C4 but a step below a C6. Atleast from a stock durability standpoint. Yes their design dates to the 50's but they are still a 3 speed pretty comparable to the C4/C6. The FMX's biggest downfalls are they are stupidly heavy and performance parts (and probably even basic rebuild stuff) is getting scarce. But they are much eaiser to turn the a C6.

 

[bobbywalter]

I wouldn't call an FMX a precursor to an AOD, it was nearly identical to the Borg Warner CW used in a bunch of stuff in the 50's. The AOD looked to me like it had FMX and TH350 influence, luckily it was a lot more durable than a TH350 could ever hope to be.

I knew John Riggoti pretty good. He indicated they absolutely robbed and built from the fmx. When I was figuring out how to make the AOD live up to my insanity via valve body mods, he helped by telling me what I wanted to do wouldn't work. Then when I did it and it worked....he told me why it worked. But there were flaws that most people would not like.


As to the Cleveland in a gen 1 sans body lift....the firewall was altered...the pedal assembly/column moved over a bit more then an inch...one truck ended up using a Dodge Dakota rack. The other a 2wd Chevy truck box.


It was the late 80s and early 90s....there was no internet...and we just didn't give a fawk about wow factor....just go. Well...lots of failure....and sometimes go.

 

[rubydist]

I have a 351C in my 66 F100 and its a lot of fun...

The FMX was behind most of the factory 351C with automatic vehicles that Ford built, so unless you go crazy with your engine build the trans should hold up. However, there is a lot to be said for having a lock up torque converter and more gears.

My 351C has been converted to fuel injection and has a 4R70W behind it and is run by an Explorer pcm with a fairly serious tune, since the timing map for a 351C is completely different from a 302/5.0 Windsor. In addition to not having to screw around with carbs, I also get the ability to control most everything from the computer. You might want to consider that as an option.

 

[Angie]

hi ruby,

Not planning on going stupid with the motor build, so can't see many issues there. this will be just a plain basic shove the drive train onto frame and lower the body over it build. Doubt i will even paint the block, just going rat look. really have no intention of going EFI so that won't be complicating the process, but thanks for the recommendation.

 

[smilinjack]

Lookin for advice on installing a 351C in your ranger? Stop at the bank, get lotsa money, set aside about 6 months of your time, make sure you've got mig and tig welders , a good side grinder, and several measuring devices for beginners! I've yet to complete my project but I'm pretty close. It's a winters project for me so I'm in my second winter and will resume right after the holidays. I too had the Cleveland (actually I have 3) , and a Toploader 4 speed from a '71 Boss. Aside from stroking to 408 (w/ best internals (( also hydraulic roller cam/ solid lifters)) and having the Toploader built and "beefed" by Dan Williams , I found a really nice 95 std. cab Ranger down in Cleveland (go figure!!).
My original thought was to "simply" drop the C in and go. Yeah, well, that option changed pretty quick when I discovered it didn't work so well with the TIB suspension! So, cut the frame off from the firewall forward, build a new frame to accommodate the tubular K member I needed. I found it necessary, to be able to avoid the steering and exhaust issues I was encountering. That in turn forced me to fab shock towers from the new frame and of course QA racing shocks, rotors, calipers etc. etc........ At that point I thought oh well, might as well tear the ass end up too to handle the pwr. Found a FX4 Level 2 rear axle w/ Torsen locker from an '07 and had that totally rebuilt w/ oversize drums. Purchased an S&W Ladderbar suspension kit w/ QA1's and started welding again!! Of course a new driveshaft had to be ordered. So, when she gets back on stage I'll have radiator, electrical (freakin nightmare!) shock tower bracing, odds and ends, and then I'll probably get on the interior. so, thats the "short" story of droppin a "C" into a Ranger. Hope this helps with your decision But, it HAS been a labor of love. It has also kept me busy during Covid lockdowns Enjoy your Build!!!!

 

[bobbywalter]

Avalanche of unintended consequences.


Compromise is key ....but yeah ....

It's a mothfoxkle.

 

[Angie]

Hi smiling, thanks for the reply.

Oh I know how long it takes. my other truck took over 7 years to complete. this one shouldn't take long as I do have all the bits and I great friend with a 2 post hoist for the fun stuff on this build. it will be a rat non compliant anything build for a daily driver. Friend has a second boxed frame that we are swapping for, he had built the frame for a 351W and has no use for the frame now as he moved to a different project, and said i can have it. already have an old beat up looking 1990 truck for the body and box.... sleeper all the way here. not afraid to wire this.... will be pretty easy compared to the show truck that was (finished) as if ever finished, this year.

on what you did what was the biggest hurdle in the dropping in the frame as you said... "My original thought was to "simply" drop the C in and go. Yeah, well, that option changed pretty quick when I discovered it didn't work so well with the TIB suspension!" ?? was this because of the year of frame you chose? and what you do about rear sump oil pan?

in case you haven't seen it, here is my other project.
https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/index.php?threads/83-302-build.156327/
cheers