The autumn years of the ICE should be the golden years for the ICE.

[1990RangerinSK]

Oh that’s right… some have cords. I guess I’m thinking of battery powered ones. The cord alone would be a deal breaker for me.

I just had this thought walking into Lowe’s today. They had a $4,000 electric zero turn sitting out front.

Yes. Yes, they do.

As for the battery operated ones, it takes me two hours with an 18inch gas mower to cut my entire lawn. I do it all at once because I'm on a corner lot with no fence. I flatly refuse to have lines not line up and be visible from the street not lining up.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Interesting. For me, an electric lawn mower isn't practical. I'd be forever wrapping that thing's cord around a tree (or more than one tree).

On the other hand, for somebody like my mom, who has a smallish yard with no trees to wrap the cord around, an electric mower works really well for her.

My BIL has a small yard and loves his cordless mower.

He was trying to brag up to me they make plug in riders now. 38" cut was the one he was citing and like a hour or two runtime.

It takes me 2hrs with a 46" deck with heavy mowing on a not flat/level yard... hard pass.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

They already are. In Saskatchewan, the number of electric vehicles has tripled in the last two years or so. In about 2019, there were 400. Last year there were 600. Now there are about 1,000. Whether you like it or not, people are accepting the "shortcomings" of electric.

In Canada, there are 250,000 electric vehicles. So, yes, people are accepting the "shortcomings" of electric.

Im just going off what i observe while im out and about. I spend 6 days a week traveling various areas through out the MI/OH/IN tri state and i do pay very close attention....and i see very, very, very few EV's around. I mean like....could count on 2 hands per month.

Plus how many of those EV owners also own a gas vehicle? Im going to guess quite a few.

Im sure as EV offerings go up more people will buy them...but to think they will ever endanger IC sales....isnt going to happen.

Thats kinda been my point...i dont expect them to stay at 5% forever....but to think any of us will see a day where EV is the vast majority isnt going to happen.

 

[stmitch]

Im just going off what i observe while im out and about. I spend 6 days a week traveling various areas through out the MI/OH/IN tri state and i do pay very close attention....and i see very, very, very few EV's around. I mean like....could count on 2 hands per month.

Plus how many of those EV owners also own a gas vehicle? Im going to guess quite a few.

Im sure as EV offerings go up more people will buy them...but to think they will ever endanger IC sales....isnt going to happen.

Thats kinda been my point...i dont expect them to stay at 5% forever....but to think any of us will see a day where EV is the vast majority isnt going to happen.

EV popularity varies a ton by state. States with more incentives have more EVs. States where solar works better on homes have more EVs.
The states you listed happen to be pretty low:

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Maps and Data - Electric Vehicle Registrations by State

That being said, I drive about 50 miles per day through rural Indiana and see 2 or 3 Teslas pretty much every day. That doesn't include my neighbor's Model S. And I'm sure that I'm missing other EVs that blend into traffic more. If you're not seeing EVs, it's because you're not looking or you miss them because they just blend into traffic now.

EVs have had a relatively low percentage of overall sales until now because OEM's didn't make very many of them. OEM's didn't make very many of them because they were expensive to make. Battery costs have come way down in the last 5 years, and lo and behold more and more OEMs are starting to offer more and more EVs. They're only going to continue to grow their market share. Last year there were about 500k full EVs sold in the US out of 15 million total new vehicles. There are 276 million vehicles registered in the US. Even if all 15 million new vehicles sold yearly were EVs, it would take 19 years for the entire US fleet to turn over. It's going to take time for EVs to be the majority of vehicles on the road (and this will again vary by location with some areas seeing higher take rates than others). But I think it's very reasonable to think that EVs could be at least half of new vehicles sold in the US within the next decade. They're already there in some other countries

 

[rusty ol ranger]

EV popularity varies a ton by state. States with more incentives have more EVs. States where solar works better on homes have more EVs.
The states you listed happen to be pretty low:

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Maps and Data - Electric Vehicle Registrations by State

That being said, I drive about 50 miles per day through rural Indiana and see 2 or 3 Teslas pretty much every day. That doesn't include my neighbor's Model S. And I'm sure that I'm missing other EVs that blend into traffic more. If you're not seeing EVs, it's because you're not looking or you miss them because they just blend into traffic now.

EVs have had a relatively low percentage of overall sales until now because OEM's didn't make very many of them. OEM's didn't make very many of them because they were expensive to make. Battery costs have come way down in the last 5 years, and lo and behold more and more OEMs are starting to offer more and more EVs. They're only going to continue to grow their market share. Last year there were about 500k full EVs sold in the US out of 15 million total new vehicles. There are 276 million vehicles registered in the US. Even if all 15 million new vehicles sold yearly were EVs, it would take 19 years for the entire US fleet to turn over. It's going to take time for EVs to be the majority of vehicles on the road (and this will again vary by location with some areas seeing higher take rates than others). But I think it's very reasonable to think that EVs could be at least half of new vehicles sold in the US within the next decade. They're already there in some other countries

Nah i do pay attention, but i also run the same places in those states so maybe it is the parts of the states im in...which is also possible. I do tend to see the most between ft wayne and anderson IN.

I just really, really doubt theyll ever get over 50% market share regardless of how fast it happens, which, i also dont believe it will happen in the next 10 years.

Around large cities it may come close in 15-20 years to a 50/50 split. But the issues are in cities there is alot of people who live in apartments and landlords arnt going to pay for however many chargers they need to for tenants, and in rural areas people tend to hang onto vehicles much longer (around here most stuff is 15-20years old, alot is older then that) and its going to take much longer.

I think once you see it hit 45-50% its going to hit a wall and youre going to hit a wall. Unless they can do everything a gas can do, be 100% as easy (as in, 5 min recharges, longer range, etc etc).

Batteries have limits....so does IC, but those limits for practicality with IC is much higher.

 

[G8orFord]

My average electric bill, before solar and an EV was $350
My current monthly solar bill is $350
My current monthly electric bill is $0

My monthly costs are the exact same, but I get 50,000 - 60,000 miles of EV charging for free.

No, that's not how it works. You are still paying for electricity. Instead now you are paying the solar company for that electricity instead of the utility. So yes, it does cost you to charge your EV. Even if you had drop pockets and bought the solar outright, that cost so had to be amortized towards what it is used for.

Also, 5000 miles a month is roughly 250 miles a day for the 20 working days per month. Anything is possible, but it seems unlikely that all the charging was done from your solar.

I'm not arguing with you. Kudos for your efforts to be "green", but IMO you aren't charging your EV for free.

 

[superj]

i guess the way to test out whether solar would work is just put up some solar panels and hook the charger to those. and those are only hooked to the car charger. than use it like that for a month. if it charges and lets you drive a full charge a day, badass.

i know in golf carts, it couldn't be done back when i was a mechanic at a club car dealer. we planned to set up a cart with solar panels and use it as a run around cart but since plugged in carts could only make a half a day and than had to be plugged back in, no way was one going to work on solar charging only. at golf courses, they rotate half the fleet for morning to lunch use and after lunch the other half of the fleet rotates in for the afternoon players.

but, that was 20 years ago so i keep hoping someone has been able to do it by now but i have not seen any carts with panels on top in south texas courses. i think it would be a cost savings for the courses but no one seems to have done it

 

[sgtsandman]

the powerboost....i would be happy to give up 600 pounds of cargo capacity and 2k of the 12 plus k towing capacity for 100 miles electric range....

and that is coming.

the super duty systems will be interesting.

and using the bronco and expedition hybrids boondocking will be awesome....the power these have for overlanding and expedition rigs is just awesome.


long range hybrids are where its at....for the next 20 years.

i have no use for all electric if i were to only own one vehicle. thats retarded. i want options......in a traffic jam in a blizzard.....i want options...trying to escape a storm....i want options......out in the wild....i really want options.


the all electric for commuting....no problem. most of us have more then one vehicle. and an all electric for the chores is perfect.


so yes....electric vehicles of all types are going to rocket in production the next 5 years compared to 10 years ago. its only been 12 years with the teslas...


and these machines ford and gm are putting out are crazy......that hummer is out of control beast from hell.


if i could afford one i would buy it.

for a round towner. gonna be a minute before they are worth wandering the country like i do with one...

I can definitely see a benefit for the expedition/overlander crowd.

 

[stmitch]

Batteries have limits....so does IC, but those limits for practicality with IC is much higher.

I think practicality depends on the situation and how you're defining it. It's very practical for me to plug my car in each night and walk out in the morning to have it ready to go. It takes 5 seconds if I'm moving slowly instead of 5 minutes or more at an extra stop every few days. The price to "fuel" the vehicle is lower and more stable than liquid fuels. It requires less maintenance. All of those things are very practical to me. Am I going to tow 400 miles with it? No. But I don't do that in my life regardless of what's powering my vehicles. If I need something towed to me from far away, I pay to have it transported. I'd do that whether my daily is an ICE, PHEV, or EV. I buy things that are optimized for how I spend the majority of my life instead of paying extra for something that I rarely use.

I've got a family. Road trips don't happen very often, and when they do, they require frequent stops no matter what. I'm not worried about hammering out more than 700 miles in a day. Google says that my most common road trip should take about 9.5hrs. With the whole family in tow it typically takes us 12hrs. If it's farther than that, I'm flying or the experience of driving and seeing things along the way is the whole point of the trip so stops to charge probably aren't a hindrance.

Lets not forget that the reason that ICE is more practical by your terms has an awful lot to do with the fact that we've poured mountains of both public and private cash into their development and supporting infrastructure every year for the last 100 years.

 

[Eddo Rogue]

I see just about 50% EV's here, mostly Teslas. I know a few EV/Tesla Owners. They all have ICE vehicles as well, as I would guess the general population I see does too.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

In Truckistan, there are 250,000 electric vehicles. So, yes, people are accepting the "shortcomings" of electric.

FIFY.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I think practicality depends on the situation and how you're defining it. It's very practical for me to plug my car in each night and walk out in the morning to have it ready to go. It takes 5 seconds if I'm moving slowly instead of 5 minutes or more at an extra stop every few days. The price to "fuel" the vehicle is lower and more stable than liquid fuels. It requires less maintenance. All of those things are very practical to me. Am I going to tow 400 miles with it? No. But I don't do that in my life regardless of what's powering my vehicles. If I need something towed to me from far away, I pay to have it transported. I'd do that whether my daily is an ICE, PHEV, or EV. I buy things that are optimized for how I spend the majority of my life instead of paying extra for something that I rarely use.

I've got a family. Road trips don't happen very often, and when they do, they require frequent stops no matter what. I'm not worried about hammering out more than 700 miles in a day. Google says that my most common road trip should take about 9.5hrs. With the whole family in tow it typically takes us 12hrs. If it's farther than that, I'm flying or the experience of driving and seeing things along the way is the whole point of the trip so stops to charge probably aren't a hindrance.

Lets not forget that the reason that ICE is more practical by your terms has an awful lot to do with the fact that we've poured mountains of both public and private cash into their development and supporting infrastructure every year for the last 100 years.

I get all that. But my vehicle is ready to go every morning to. I spend 5-10 min (yes ive timed it) getting gas once a week generally....unless im going on a trip. My fuel bill even at these prices is about 35/week.

It takes me 30 minutes every 3 months to change the oil at a cost of about 40 bucks.

Like ive said....IC and EV are about equal for practicality. Then there are always the "what if" scenarios where IC usually wins.

Im still betting on a 50/50 split in the distant future. EV's will not replace IC anywhere close to totally.

 

[stmitch]

I get all that. But my vehicle is ready to go every morning to. I spend 5-10 min (yes ive timed it) getting gas once a week generally....unless im going on a trip. My fuel bill even at these prices is about 35/week.

It takes me 30 minutes every 3 months to change the oil at a cost of about 40 bucks.

Like ive said....IC and EV are about equal for practicality. Then there are always the "what if" scenarios where IC usually wins.

Im still betting on a 50/50 split in the distant future. EV's will not replace IC anywhere close to totally.

The "what if" scenarios are also known as "edge cases". I agree that ICE is currently better for many of them. But they're "edge cases" because they're not common. So prioritizing "edge cases" when making a decision in how we spend our time and money doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Doing some basic math with your numbers:

You're spending something like 250-500min per year on fueling stops. That's 4-8 hrs per year.
You're spending $35 per fill up once per week. That's $140/mo or $1750 in 50 weeks.
You're spending 30 minutes per oil change. That's 2hrs per year.
You're spending $40 per oil change (4 per year). That's $160 annually.
If you're changing oil every 3 months, then I presume it's about 1k miles per month of driving? That works out to 250 miles per week, and since you're getting fuel weekly, we can estimate you're getting about 250 miles per tank. So your range is 250 miles, similar to a lot of EVs. The only difference is that fueling doesn't take as long if you're away from home, and you're more used to going to gas stations than plugging in where you park.

So with no other repairs or maintenance, you're spending almost $1900 and somewhere between 6-10hrs of your life each year just putting petroleum into your truck. It might be easier to fuel up on a road trip or when towing, but how often does that happen? What percentage of miles driven are spent on a road trip or working hard vs just commuting or going to the store? It seems impractical to me unless you're spending the majority of your miles working the truck hard (doubtful since it's a 35 year old Ranger with a 2.9 and you're not getting 10mpg).
Or thinking of it another way, you're paying $1900 and 6-10hrs each year to be somewhat better at the edge cases.
$1900/yr pays for a lot of deliveries or plane tickets.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

The "what if" scenarios are also known as "edge cases". I agree that ICE is currently better for many of them. But they're "edge cases" because they're not common. So prioritizing "edge cases" when making a decision in how we spend our time and money doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Doing some basic math with your numbers:

You're spending something like 250-500min per year on fueling stops. That's 4-8 hrs per year.
You're spending $35 per fill up once per week. That's $140/mo or $1750 in 50 weeks.
You're spending 30 minutes per oil change. That's 2hrs per year.
You're spending $40 per oil change (4 per year). That's $160 annually.
If you're changing oil every 3 months, then I presume it's about 1k miles per month of driving? That works out to 250 miles per week, and since you're getting fuel weekly, we can estimate you're getting about 250 miles per tank. So your range is 250 miles, similar to a lot of EVs. The only difference is that fueling doesn't take as long if you're away from home, and you're more used to going to gas stations than plugging in where you park.

So with no other repairs or maintenance, you're spending almost $1900 and somewhere between 6-10hrs of your life each year just putting petroleum into your truck. It might be easier to fuel up on a road trip or when towing, but how often does that happen? What percentage of miles driven are spent on a road trip or working hard vs just commuting or going to the store? It seems impractical to me unless you're spending the majority of your miles working the truck hard (doubtful since it's a 35 year old Ranger with a 2.9 and you're not getting 10mpg).
Or thinking of it another way, you're paying $1900/yr to be somewhat better at the edge cases.
$1900/yr pays for a lot of deliveries or plane tickets.

I wont get on a plane and i prefer to be self reliant so i wouldnt pay to have something delivered if i can hook the trailer up and go get it myself i will. I get most people dont do that though.

But....whats the payment on a 40,000 dollar EV? 400ish a month? Thats almost 5000 dollars a year. So 1900/yr driving a paid off truck youre still coming out way ahead. Not to mention a 40,000 dollar model 3 or whatever isnt gonna haul firewood, tow my quad, push shit around the yard, etc etc....and id still need my F250 for the big stuff.

Sure you could buy a used EV but then you run the massive risk of needing a battery or something and then youre way up shit creek...and an engine/trans replacement is still going to be much, much cheaper.

Fiscally EV's make even less sense then if you take money out of the equation.

 

[fastpakr]

Dude...


Used vehicles come with risk of repair. No question. But so far, EV's have been -more- reliable than their gas alternatives. So if you're going to point out that there's a massive risk of needing 'a battery or something', then you should be ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED of buying an ICE vehicle.

Payments on new EV's are significant. No question. But so are payments on -any- new vehicle. So your point is...

You're self reliant. Or at least you think you are, except that you aren't willing to -actually learn- anything whatsoever. So mostly you're just... Intentionally and willfully ignorant?

That's the polar opposite of self reliant.