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Swap Dana 28 E4wd to 2001 Ranger Edge 4X4


alwaysFlOoReD

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:icon_confused: It was on the Aerostar, what's the Explorer got to do with it?


It seems I misread your post, sorry.



That transfer case did come in the Aerostar vans. They used an SLA suspension from the start in '86 and added AWD in '90. Explorers went to SLA in '95 and added AWD in '96. Then the Rangers went to SLA in '98, but never got the AWD.

I can't say that TTB won't handle being DD as an AWD, but I see it as more of an issue with the front axle than the driveline. I don't think it will respond to full time operation as well as a SLA front end. I also think that it might actually make the handling of the truck worse, but it's very possible that I am incorrect.

Reasons that I think this are that the hubs on a TTB were designed for part time use on dirt, not full time use on pavement, so who know how well they would hold up. The bearings in a TTB were never intended to be used in full time 4wd operation, while the live axle unit bearings were designed for the front axles to always be engaged. The TTB front axles shafts use a u-joint, while the SLA uses a CV joint. The latter is much smoother at transferring power over a wide range of speed and angles. There are also other issues that I've read over the years that leave me with the impression that it could be a bad idea, but I can't place my finger on what they were.

I could very well be wrong on all counts. I'm not the one with a TTB truck that wants to try it, so don't let me stop you from experimenting. If you do please start a thread for TTB AWD and let everyone know your results.
I have a habit [bad] of not fully reading/understanding posts, forgive me. All my experience is off road and colors my thinking, again forgive me. Back to your regular scheduled programming....
 


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Blown

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To be sure here, Dana 28 uses a hard locking clutch to get 50/50 4WD and it not designed to slip. A planetary gear set-up acts as the differential between front and rear axles, splits torque 30/70, and is AWD all the time.
 
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bobbywalter

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ttb will hate awd.


awd will hate ttb.


you can do it, but it will require much higher maintenance. just like leaving the hubs locked in all winter, the inner spindles will take an ass whoopin.


with high power you will want limit cables for lift off, and it torque steers like a mofo. dana 28's explode in the right conditions....at every point along the way.


there were some restricted setups years ago that launched very well...not 1/4 mile stuff just short street racing that did ok. one particular truck was lowered a bit, never was friends with those guys so i never got any details.


the propensity to jack with high traction and ttb could get ya in to some trouble with big power.
 

JoshT

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Dana 28 TTB and Dana 28 TC... This could get confusing.
 

bobbywalter

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yeah, just referring to the ttb 28 vs the ttb 35..



with long arms and some lift you have to chain em down to get any benefit from a 4x4 launch...and with big power you can get into trouble quick.
 

don4331

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Blown:

NP 231/242 have a two (multi) piece output housing. As a result, the Jeep crowd can remove the output housing, and change the output from a slip joint to a fixed plate. But the Dana 28 is one piece, so there isn't really any ability to do a SYE kit.

JoshT:

Back in the '70s; we had a K-2500 with the 454/Turbo 400/NP203/Dana 44HD front axle - the power was being sent through hubs not significantly different than what one could have in a TTB Dana 35/44 Hybrid. True, the u joints wouldn't be as smooth as the CV joints of the newer SLA, but AWD should work ok with good parts/regular maintenance. (I'm thinking for winter driving in snow, more than racing on dry pavement)

IMHO: Handling wouldn't be any worse than TTB with the BW1350 shifted into 4WD. (Hopefully, that is still close enough to subject at hand not to get a time out). :)
 

bobbywalter

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Blown:

NP 231/242 have a two (multi) piece output housing. As a result, the Jeep crowd can remove the output housing, and change the output from a slip joint to a fixed plate. But the Dana 28 is one piece, so there isn't really any ability to do a SYE kit.

JoshT:

Back in the '70s; we had a K-2500 with the 454/Turbo 400/NP203/Dana 44HD front axle - the power was being sent through hubs not significantly different than what one could have in a TTB Dana 35/44 Hybrid. True, the u joints wouldn't be as smooth as the CV joints of the newer SLA, but AWD should work ok with good parts/regular maintenance. (I'm thinking for winter driving in snow, more than racing on dry pavement)

IMHO: Handling wouldn't be any worse than TTB with the BW1350 shifted into 4WD. (Hopefully, that is still close enough to subject at hand not to get a time out).:)

theres no time out, it is helpful to the task.. and how and why the aerostar got what it got to begin with..awd ttb would suck. 4x4 ttb on dry sux bad.....handling of a straight axle is totally stable compared to a ttb. the ttb has a propensity to jack itself up. it is why the bronco 2 got a time out...it was too narrow and too short in wheel base to be driven safely by the average bear driving like the average bear due to the inherent flaw of the ttb under the situations you find yourself in when you need 4x4 the most.

that is how we got the explorer.

the 119-128-129 cases will work great too for an awd case if a guy has a v8 swap...those were in the old eagles.

i would not waste time for handling gains to run the awd with ttb. too inefficient compared to the sla.

the stock ranger powertrain guys with sla have the win with this tc28 setup.
 

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OK, No slip yoke eliminator., thank Don.

That could be the problem with this swap. We will see how it holds-up. The rear Aerostar drive shaft has a vibration/harmonic damper on the front yoke. The rubber in the used damper I found was wasted so the shop cut off the outer steel ring and removed the rubber. It probably would have been best to source a new yoke with damper.

The early Aerostars had a TSB. They were cracking the t-case at the back as the rear output loosened-up, some broke and they would spit-out the shaft. The fix was a stronger back half case, installation of a better bushing at the rear output, and a lighter aluminum drive shaft with harmonic balancer/damper. The lighter shaft would not act as strongly against the T-case. When sourcing your Dana 28 T-case make sure it was in front of the aluminum driveshaft, then you know it got the fix.:icon_thumby:

Now I have the newer case, but I put on a steel driveshaft which is longer, heavier and without a damper/harmonic balancer. I only think the slight vibration it has from 45 to 50mph is going to get worse as the slip yoke or t-case output wears.

I am looking at a way to dampen that vibration? I am going to try too source a new yoke with harmonic balancer. I found driveshaft balancers (http://store.balancemasters.com/osCommerce/index.php?cPath=28) and wonder if I might partially fill the shaft with some sort of balancing media??? Filling the shaft would be similar to balancing wheels with BB's or how Centramatic wheel balancers work. Got any input on what may be the best solution?????????????
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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Two piece drive shaft, using a center bearing? I'm thinking it would take the vibrational load off the tc bearing? It might be cheaper to get the correct driveshaft made.
 

don4331

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I was actually thinking the 144 for my V-8 - it would require someone like Moser to re-spline the output from my 4R70W to the 23 splines for the New Process tc (recutting external splines is cheaper than internal). The 144 being all gear awd tc with a 4 lock and theoretically, the '4' in second digit of NP numbering indicates strength, so it is the strongest of their single speeds. Found one in a Dakota - going to replace chains and bearings...playing catch up to Blown...

And I am running a '98 with '00 Explorer axles so I too will drop the ttb portion of the discussion.

Blown:

Vibration at a certain speed is a resonance point.

Technically, all a damper/harmonic balancer is doing is damping the vibration.

There are a couple other ideas for that: Install the Explorer rear axle dampers/shock; add a mount at the rear of the transfer case. But those are really band aids.

What would be ideal is moving the vibration out of regular driving regime - make the driveshaft stronger and/or lighter. Changing to aluminum was Ford's solution, that is probably the easiest for you. Go with the largest diameter/thinnest that your driveshaft shop recommends (That would have the highest natural resonance frequency).
 

bobbywalter

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Two piece drive shaft, using a center bearing? I'm thinking it would take the vibrational load off the tc bearing? It might be cheaper to get the correct driveshaft made.

blown...i have to agree with


the lincolns tend to have the damper style slips on them. but i for sure agree with a 2 piece shaft, and you can fix the yoke by drilling the output and running a hardened stud with a 28 spline flange style slip. spaced accordingly it will lock the position and really reduce the wear, the effort in a seal washer to do that along with the drill and tap is way out there for things worth wasting time on though imo. a standard two piece arrangement would likely be the best way to go all around. this should handle a boosted....or rather...sanely boosted 4.0 if it is set up cleanly.


i am sure you have looked through all the same literature as i did, and the controller for the 28 seems forward enough to be retained as long as it works with the rear and front speed sensors of the later rangers. for what i have seen it sure looks like it will to me. that mkes it an even better situatio...you can power it on for auto...or just lock it for emergency...

:icon_thumby:


I was actually thinking the 144 for my V-8 - it would require someone like Moser to re-spline the output from my 4R70W to the 23 splines for the New Process tc (recutting external splines is cheaper than internal).



i have installed efi 351 and big blocks into waggys. some had the 229 or 228 case...some 208. i simply swapped the ford 208 input shaft into those...and sometimes had to have a spacer or trim of the output shaft of the trans to make them work but they worked. one style i think required some lathe work to turn down something possibly...might be mixing that up with the borgs..

the 228-229 were full time cases..at least i thought they were 228-229 style...i have put them in rangers before as well..of course i may not remember those mods correctly..something with seals comes to the front...no details...but the extra low range parts i see as bad for your big block rampages, and they are weak compared to the 203. the eagle style cases are very light and the 119 seemed the simplest of those as i recall. what i dont remember is the input shaft situation on those.

i do not have access to one, if i do see one i will try to pull it apart and look at the input shaft. that family of cases has the straight cut style input, though there is a larger/smaller diameter with some...so maybe it is possible the single speedcase shares the same style input as the others in the family.

if that is indeed the case, you can simply swap in the ford 31 spline to go behind the 4r70w. that would make the 119-128-129 a bolt on with only a spacer or trim of the 4r70 output to go together.

no experience with the 144, it does not look to be in the same family as the 208 style. great lakes off road and many other companies make spacers/clocking rings to further in adjustment of these things. i have had people buy those for various issues over the years. the ford and jeep patterns are the same, dodge as well but on the other side...gm is off like 90.

i just drilled my spacer to put my ford 208 behind the gm 4l80 in my ranger, clocked it flat as possible and popped in the chevy 32 spline input.

i mention this because the 208 can be an issue to fit in the sla chassis when using the oem drivetrain with clearance in relation to the front drive shaft. the am style case fits awesome, but may need to be clocked up to clear the t bar/trans member for driveline.

leaving the 44 series that came behind the 4r70 the obvious choice. you know it fits, they came that way.


conversely....if i was wanting to big block rampage rally race and hillclimb a low awd ranger....i would use a th400 and awd gm case with a pwm controller on a dial and trigger. that reid case for the 400 is ridiculously strong and pricey but the capacity to handle big block tq is 1st rate.
 

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I am driving it, the vibration is not that bad just noticeable. I only have about 200 miles on it. I may be making more of it than it is. It's fun to drive. I think an balancer/damper could be just enough too make it go away.

It seem to have gotten better, less vibes, maybe the slip yoke breaking in???
 

Blown

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blown...i have to agree with

i am sure you have looked through all the same literature as i did, and the controller for the 28 seems forward enough to be retained as long as it works with the rear and front speed sensors of the later rangers. for what i have seen it sure looks like it will to me. that mkes it an even better situatio...you can power it on for auto...or just lock it for emergency...
Thanks for the reply. The Dana 28 is fulltime AWD. Engaging the clutch with a switch locks the T-case for part time 4WD

Wow off topic much?
:D
 

bobbywalter

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Thanks for the reply. The Dana 28 is fulltime AWD. Engaging the clutch with a switch locks the T-case for part time 4WD

Wow off topic much?
:D
:icon_confused:


i understand the 30/70....i was in reference to the controller being so simple that is looks easy to incorporate and would just do its thing..and could be useful in certain conditions...or really fawk ya..


and of course, if needed just lock it up like you planned to begin with.. not that it still wont slip when ya need it most:icon_twisted:



whether or not that would work well in a snow storm under boost for keeping things on track...you will have to find out.



the history of the units leans towards the two piece shaft, but without seeing it for ones self...:dunno: dont matter anyway...its burning down road for now.
 

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:icon_confused:

Just making sure there is no confusion, Dana 28 is all time, 30/70 AWD without wiring anything. The sensors are known to not work well or go bad. I would not use them as you would need the control module and then it only locks the t-case for 3 seconds at a time. On/Off, On/ Off would get old quick, (lurch, grab, slip) and was a complaint of Aerostar drivers. By locking it with a switch only when you need it, the clutch wouldn't be subject to the abuse of on/off every 3 seconds. But you can't leave it on for good traction or it will get in a bind like any part time 4WD and likely break something. A Ford engineer commented on the strength of the clutch being pretty good. It was designed to pull a heavier van than our ranger weigh.

I like the 30/70 AWD in snow. Yes you can mash the skinny pedal and the rear will get loose but the front just pulls you along...........drive sanely and all wheels hook-up without the forced slippage of 4WD. I believe AWD is better for that reason on snow and ice, no forced slippage.
Then you went astray of the Dana 28, but perhaps answered anothers question, fine.
 
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