Soft pedal... next project.

[rumblecloud]

Been reading through the brake forum and it looks like the first thing I need to do is check the rears to make sure the star wheels are not f-ed up. Tried the reverse stop today four times and nothing changed.
Pedal goes to the floor. Pumping doesn't really change anything. I can hear the air escape ( whoosh) when I depress the pedal. Engine off depress is about an inch or two.
It still stops, but I'm not sure what would happen in a panic slam-on-the-brakes situation. I have had a brake line blow and understand what that is like as far as response and it kinda feels like that.
In 2010 at 212,000 miles the rears were serviced including rear shoes, resurface drums, rotors, replace rear cylinders, spring kits, etc. The truck sat from about 2011 until 2017 and currently has about 216 and change.

So this is another area in which I have no experience. Can't wait...

 

[franklin2]

I have never seen the auto adjusters work on any Ford I have ever had, even though they are probably made by Bendix for ford. Not much luck on Chevys either.

Best thing to do is jack the rear up, and manually adjust the star wheels till you cannot turn the tire by hand. Then loosen them till you can turn the tire but there is still some rubbing. Do both sides and see what you have. They may need to be bled also.

 

[2011Supercab]

If the adjusters work,

The easiest way to adjust the rear brakes is to pull and hold the parking brake release and just pump the parking brake pedal, usually takes less then 10 pumps.

 

[rumblecloud]

I've seen this method before as well as the "engage the parking brake and drive in reverse" method - which I have tried with no success.
But I will give this a shot before I start pulling stuff off.
Thanks.
r

 

[Uncle Gump]

Knock the drums off and give it a good inspection. If things look good... AND the adjusters turn... clean them up and give them a proper manual adjustment.

I know where you're from... my guess would be the adjusters don't work.

 

[rumblecloud]

Poked around a little last night in the keyhole on the backside of the right rear brake (didn't pull anything yet).
The a star wheel is frozen and it seems the spring at the bottom on one side is not attached to anything.
I'll be removing the drums later today. I'm assuming I have 10" drums (based on research), but will know for sure when I pull the drums.
I'm excited to do this -- weird huh?

 

[Uncle Gump]

I suspected that...

Hopefully the drums come off easy... this will depend on how long it's been since they were removed.

If stuck... you'll get a chance to get out the bamiffy.

 

[rumblecloud]

Been a couple of days, but finally had some time. Here's what I found:



I literally had no rear brakes. Pads on both sides were completely gone, except for the driver's side - they wee there but not attached to anything. The passenger side self-adjusting cable was corroded away.

So we have new drums but only one rebuilding kit available. Waiting for the other one to show up.

I think this would explain the soft pedal -- ya think?
Surprisingly it only started getting soft a couple of weeks ago. I don't drive it that much, so I didn't really think about it.

In the first post I mentioned that the brakes had been serviced in 2010 at 212,000 miles and it had been sitting since 2011. I've put about 4,000 and change on it since 2017. The receipt says they installed rear shoes, resurfaced drums, replace rear cylinders, spring kits, brake lines.
I'm thinking they cut a few corners.

 

[Uncle Gump]

Good thing you knocked them apart.

Hard to tell by the pictures... but something doesn't look right with assembly of the return springs... cable and anchor pin plate in the last picture. It also looks like the park brake lever is pulled away from the shoe too far for the "at rest" position. Might have a parking brake cable frozen up.

 

[rumblecloud]

Here's a better shot of the assembly:


I'm just pulling everything out and cleaning, then re-installing and re-installing till it works.

 

[rumblecloud]

Good thing you knocked them apart.

Hard to tell by the pictures... but something doesn't look right with assembly of the return springs... cable and anchor pin plate in the last picture. It also looks like the park brake lever is pulled away from the shoe too far for the "at rest" position. Might have a parking brake cable frozen up.

Your eyes are good...
I checked the ebrake on the passenger side rear and it is indeed frozen. I had a hard time getting the shoe in the correct position. Found that the ebrake cable wouldn't release. I disconnected it at the bottom and everything is fitting nicely now.

Has anyone ever mentioned how shitty drum brakes are to work on???

Thanks. I prolly would not have figure that out so quickly.

 

[Uncle Gump]

It looks like there are two spring ends wrapped over the anchor pin from the left return spring?? What the hell is that?

While cleaning... when the shoes come off... you will see 6 spots where the shoes (3 each side) ride against the backing plate. They will have groves from the shoes rubbing on them. Sand paper or a scuffing disc on a dremmel or die grinder those smooth. This will also be where you place a little schmear of lube during assembly to let the shoes slide and not squeak.

 

[Uncle Gump]

Your eyes are good...
I checked the ebrake on the passenger side rear and it is indeed frozen. I had a hard time getting the shoe in the correct position. Found that the ebrake cable wouldn't release. I disconnected it at the bottom and everything is fitting nicely now.

Has anyone ever mentioned how shitty drum brakes are to work on???

Thanks. I prolly would not have figure that out so quickly.

They're super simple...

Tell me you bought a couple brake spring tools to use.

 

[Uncle Gump]

Another "tip" from UG...

The arches in the top of the shoes should rest tightly against the anchor pin when everything is back together. Including the park brakes strut. If those shoes aren't on the anchor pin... chances are park brake is mis adjusted/seized/hung up. This is also checked when the shoes are close to being adjusted correctly. Because when you adjust the shoes out... it grows room for the park brake strut. Make sense?

Remember too... there is a primary (short lining) and secondary (longer lining) shoes for each side. The Secondary shoe always goes to the rear or the vehicle. This is because the secondary shoe performs most of the work. This is due to the rotation of the axle (going forward) which causes the primary shoe... when it contacts the drum surface... to push the rear shoe harder onto the drum braking surface. This action is referred to as... self-energizing.

 

[Uncle Gump]

I'm gonna continue a bit...

Now ya know about self energizing going forward... the opposite happens in reverse. The secondary shoe forces the primary shoe into the drum and up against the anchor pin. This action is what causes the self-adjuster cable to be pulled and the adjuster lever to be lifted. When the brake pedal is lifted the brake shoes normalize and the self-adjusting lever falls... advancing the star wheel a tooth.

So once we're all back together... lubed... working smoothly... back the truck up at a decent roll in reverse and stab the pedal a few times. Your brake pedal will stay up and the rear drum brakes will maintain proper adjustment.