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Simple question


The Mack

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I just joined this site. The LORD has blessed me with a 1997 Ford Ranger 4x4.

But I've never owned a 4x4 or a Ranger before so I just had a simple question.

Now I do not want to do a full transmission flush, but rather, a simple drain and refill using Lucas stop slip to replace a qt of mercon v.

But I keep getting conflicting information on this. The manual says that the full fluid capacity is 9.8 or so quarts of Mercon V.

But on this site I hear that it only takes 3 quarts of Mercon V to do a simple drain, refill, gasket and filter replacement. And I think 6 more additional qts for a torque converter drain and refill, which I don't want to do at this time.


So what is it? I simply want to do a basic drain and refill, replace the gasket and use one bottle of Lucas stop slip to replace one qt of the Mercon V. But, again, I do not want to fool around with any torque converter yet.


So what do I do? is it 3 qts?

Does the 3qt and the 6qt number equal the 9qt for full replacement? Im not understanding the numbers.
 


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9 qts total capacity... minus 3 qts for a drain and fill... 6 qts in the rest of the system including the converter.

Buy your Lucas and two qts of fluid.

If you're having transmission problems taking the pan off will give you an idea of the condition of the transmission by whats in the bottom. I would keep your expectations in perspective with the Lucas... it's not a magical fix.
 

adsm08

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Generally the pan of an automatic only holds about 1/3 of the system's total capacity, a good portion of the rest stays in the torque converter, with the rest, about 1 or 2 qts filling passages in the case and valve body and the cooler and lines.

If you're having transmission problems taking the pan off will give you an idea of the condition of the transmission by whats in the bottom. I would keep your expectations in perspective with the Lucas... it's not a magical fix.
^This^

Lucas reswells and conditions old seals to help them hold pressure. If one is torn outright the Lucas will do nothing. Also, an automatic transmission is a wear item, and with that trans being 22 years old it may just be worn out and slipping because there is no friction material left on the clutches.
 

The Mack

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9 qts total capacity... minus 3 qts for a drain and fill... 6 qts in the rest of the system including the converter.

Buy your Lucas and two qts of fluid.

If you're having transmission problems taking the pan off will give you an idea of the condition of the transmission by whats in the bottom. I would keep your expectations in perspective with the Lucas... it's not a magical fix.

Thanks for the prompt reply! I just got done looking at the Autozone website and it turns out they have a deal on Mercon V. 2 for 10$. So I will buy 2 and the Lucas stuff and give it a go. The truck wasn't having any noticeable problems. I was just told by a friend that I should change the transmission fluid and oil. It was just a problem finding specs. THANKS!!!!!!
 

The Mack

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Generally the pan of an automatic only holds about 1/3 of the system's total capacity, a good portion of the rest stays in the torque converter, with the rest, about 1 or 2 qts filling passages in the case and valve body and the cooler and lines.



^This^

Lucas reswells and conditions old seals to help them hold pressure. If one is torn outright the Lucas will do nothing. Also, an automatic transmission is a wear item, and with that trans being 22 years old it may just be worn out and slipping because there is no friction material left on the clutches.



Thnaks for the reply!

Now Im not having any problems with the transmission...yet. But I was told to do this as a preventative measure. Although I would like your advice as far as draining the torque converter later on. How long should I wait to do that?

Again, I don't want to do it now. But I would like an idea on how long I should wait. Plus I would like and opinion on what the benefit would be by just doing the pan drain and refill, plus the filter, magnet clean and gasket change....without doing the torque drain.


This truck has 165,000 miles.
 

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Again not a magic fix, but I've better luck with lubegard red. It's also the only additive that has an "endorsement" so to speak by ford. Lucas seems to do better with anything that takes older dexron from my limited use of it... opinion only, no science behind it just personal experience.

When I get an older trans with questionable service history I do a pan drop and filter change. Add a drain plug on the pan at the same time and then do a simple drain and fill 2-3 more times over the next 500 miles. The final one ill change the filter again because the new fluid has fresh detergents that free up alot of gunk. Then refill and add a bottle of lubeguard. Excessive work but again in my experience this is a gentle way to flush all the fluid. Plus with the drain plug now installed you can now do quick small oil changes every 10k or whatever you want and then drop the pan to change the filter every 30k or so.

And get a transmission cooler. The factory one sucks.... on any vehicle... best 40-60 bucks you can spend on a vehicle with an automatic.
 

adsm08

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Now Im not having any problems with the transmission...yet. But I was told to do this as a preventative measure. Although I would like your advice as far as draining the torque converter later on. How long should I wait to do that?
Your torque converter does not have a drain plug in it.


Again, I don't want to do it now. But I would like an idea on how long I should wait. Plus I would like and opinion on what the benefit would be by just doing the pan drain and refill, plus the filter, magnet clean and gasket change....without doing the torque drain.


This truck has 165,000 miles.
IMO there is little to no benefit to dropping the pan and replacing the filter, without doing all the fluid. If you were able to recover a larger percentage of the fluid then maybe, but with only getting 1/3 of the fluid out, it's not worth it. Also, a transmission filter is not particularly fine, and most of the stuff you are trying to get out with the fluid change is friction particulate which largely stays suspended in the fluid.

If you are not having any problems I would not shy away from a proper flush. A lot of people falsely believe that transmission flushes can cause transmission failure in and of themselves. This is a drastic and wide-spread misconception. It stems from the fact that a lot of guys who are under-qualified to deal with automatic transmission issues are given automatic transmission issues to look at, and their first go-to is to change the fluid for the poor shifting or shudder that is caused by a weak seal or other imminent failure. The fresh fluid, properly filled, alleviates the symptoms for a short time, and then the issue that was in progress already finishes breaking and BAM, transmission is done. But, not knowing anything about automatic transmissions, and always quick to blame the last person who did something to the car, most people think "Oh, I flushed it and it broke, so the flush broke it" when a more accurate depiction is "An underqualified person sold me a service that masked my symptoms for a week or two and now the problem they didn't fix finished breaking".


If you are very worried about it and can't get past that there are two alternatives.

1) You can find a shop that has a machine that does a dipstick flush, ask that they do that method, and replace the filter while they have it

or

2) Do what is called a "triple flush".

A dipstick flush and a triple flush are functionally the same thing, and have no possibility of putting and added or abnormal stress on the transmission. They only differ in how they are accomplished.

In a triple flush you drain the pan, fill the trans back up with the amount of fluid recovered, and allow it to idle for 5 to 10 minutes, working the shifter through it's positions, heck drive it around the block once. Then you drain the pan again. Do this until you have drained and refilled three times, on the last time replace the filter, gasket, and put in any additives you want to add. This will drain the converter by pushing the new fluid you add up through all the fluid passages and into the converter. It has a lower efficiency than an in-line flush, probably getting somewhere between 75-80% of the old fluid as opposed to about 95% with an inline, but it's better than nothing and gives a lot of people with older transmissions some piece of mind.
 

The Mack

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Engine Type
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Transmission
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2WD / 4WD
4WD
Again not a magic fix, but I've better luck with lubegard red. It's also the only additive that has an "endorsement" so to speak by ford. Lucas seems to do better with anything that takes older dexron from my limited use of it... opinion only, no science behind it just personal experience.

When I get an older trans with questionable service history I do a pan drop and filter change. Add a drain plug on the pan at the same time and then do a simple drain and fill 2-3 more times over the next 500 miles. The final one ill change the filter again because the new fluid has fresh detergents that free up alot of gunk. Then refill and add a bottle of lubeguard. Excessive work but again in my experience this is a gentle way to flush all the fluid. Plus with the drain plug now installed you can now do quick small oil changes every 10k or whatever you want and then drop the pan to change the filter every 30k or so.

And get a transmission cooler. The factory one sucks.... on any vehicle... best 40-60 bucks you can spend on a vehicle with an automatic.
Thanks for the heads up. Can you provide a link on where to get a transmission cooler for my make and model. 1997 ranger 4x4 4.0. Can you recommend a manufacturer or brand?
 

The Mack

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Your torque converter does not have a drain plug in it.




IMO there is little to no benefit to dropping the pan and replacing the filter, without doing all the fluid. If you were able to recover a larger percentage of the fluid then maybe, but with only getting 1/3 of the fluid out, it's not worth it. Also, a transmission filter is not particularly fine, and most of the stuff you are trying to get out with the fluid change is friction particulate which largely stays suspended in the fluid.

If you are not having any problems I would not shy away from a proper flush. A lot of people falsely believe that transmission flushes can cause transmission failure in and of themselves. This is a drastic and wide-spread misconception. It stems from the fact that a lot of guys who are under-qualified to deal with automatic transmission issues are given automatic transmission issues to look at, and their first go-to is to change the fluid for the poor shifting or shudder that is caused by a weak seal or other imminent failure. The fresh fluid, properly filled, alleviates the symptoms for a short time, and then the issue that was in progress already finishes breaking and BAM, transmission is done. But, not knowing anything about automatic transmissions, and always quick to blame the last person who did something to the car, most people think "Oh, I flushed it and it broke, so the flush broke it" when a more accurate depiction is "An underqualified person sold me a service that masked my symptoms for a week or two and now the problem they didn't fix finished breaking".


If you are very worried about it and can't get past that there are two alternatives.

1) You can find a shop that has a machine that does a dipstick flush, ask that they do that method, and replace the filter while they have it

or

2) Do what is called a "triple flush".

A dipstick flush and a triple flush are functionally the same thing, and have no possibility of putting and added or abnormal stress on the transmission. They only differ in how they are accomplished.

In a triple flush you drain the pan, fill the trans back up with the amount of fluid recovered, and allow it to idle for 5 to 10 minutes, working the shifter through it's positions, heck drive it around the block once. Then you drain the pan again. Do this until you have drained and refilled three times, on the last time replace the filter, gasket, and put in any additives you want to add. This will drain the converter by pushing the new fluid you add up through all the fluid passages and into the converter. It has a lower efficiency than an in-line flush, probably getting somewhere between 75-80% of the old fluid as opposed to about 95% with an inline, but it's better than nothing and gives a lot of people with older transmissions some piece of mind.

You sure know your stuff. Thanks for taking the time to reply. This will help a lot.
 

The Mack

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4WD
Well Im glad to report that Autozone had a transmission oil cooler and that NAPA had transmission pan drain plugs for my Ranger. I bought them so I am now well on my way to getting this truck where it needs to be. Thanks for the advice for all who answered! I would have been lost without your help.
 

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