School me on harnesses

[ryan]

The jeep just has a frightening lap belt, but I've got a cage. When I get my door latches welded in, I'm thinking about getting tabs for a harness of some kind welded in as well.

Unfortunately for me, I know nothing about them. I don't understand the differences between them, other than the latching mechanisms.

What style would be best as something that would be good for everyday wear, but still good enough if i dump the jeep over?

Is it worth it to get a cam lock instead of a normal latch?

Anyone have a good link just describing the different types?

One of my concerns is that the harness in the jeep would be exposed to weather

 

[machspeed]

Cam locks are good, if required by the racing/offroading body you are involved in, otherwise they can be a bear and total overkill. A regular style oe latch is available on many different types of belts and it would probably be the best/longest lasting in your jeep.

If you seriously think you might be in a situation where the jeep may end up on its lid, a 4 or 5 point harness is what you need. For dd or street cruising and slight amount of wheeling, a 3 point oe style will do just fine.

If you go the 4 or 5 point route, you HAVE to mount the shoulder harness portion properly. In most cases, that means straight back or a very small down angle mounting once its past your shoulders. That could mean you lose some function of your rear seat or it may mean you need a harness bar or roll bar to mount the shoulder harnesses to. If you bolt them to the floor behind the rear of the front seat, it could bind/compress your back and destroy your spine. vertabrae, ect in a crash or bad rollover.

Edit: I found a link with some of the general principles of mounting, this link is for auto-x/ track use, but the smae general rules apply whenever mounting harnesses. I use a schroth harness in my focus when I auto-x, and I have a harness bar installed behind my front seats at shoulder level that I wrap the harness itself around. It makes the rear seat useless, but it keeps me planted and alittle bit safer at the track.

 

[ryan]

the long term plan for the jeep is wheeling. it has a full cage, etc etc. i want to do the harnesses right now, and built it planning that it will be rubber side up and just do it once.

i have a cross bar, and no rear seat. the cross bar is probably about 6" below shoulder level at the seats. for mounting i was planning on using the OE mounts for the lap belt and then having double shear mounts on the cage cross bar. the mounting doesnt worry me too much. it's just trying to figure out what kind of harness to get

Any difference in functionality between 3 and 4 point harnesses? It looks like to me the biggest difference is having a single point of failure

 

[LIMA BEAN]

Simpson makes some good stuff and they may have a FAQ on their site.
http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/default.aspx

 

[ryan]

Simpson makes some good stuff and they may have a FAQ on their site.
http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/default.aspx

i've been trying to find a FAQ on their site all day. some of their tech stuff is helpful, but i can't even find the difference between their off road restraints and the others

 

[machspeed]

Since you are wheeling seriously, then you can't go wrong with crow harnesses. I would get a 4 or 5 point (5 point has anti submarine belt and keeps you from sliding under) though a 4 point should be sufficient.

http://www.crowenterprizes.com/index.html

 

[dusto2]

if you plan on dirt and mud getting on the belts more to the point the latch itself i would go with the cam lock the regular button style tend to jam when dirty making it hard to latch and unlatch i would personally go with the cam locks very easy to use and easy to clean and very forgiving when dirty too just my thought though

 

[Cameron]

I have the Corbeau 3 inch 5 points in the Zuk and they are overkill, but theres no such thing when it comes to safety. Its got a cam lock on it which is easy to use when you get used to it. Also, in a Corbeau seat, there is a bar at shoulder height in case you cant get a bar in the right position. Its not the best way, but it wont kill your back if the worst happens.

 

[ryan]

Since you are wheeling seriously, then you can't go wrong with crow harnesses. I would get a 4 or 5 point (5 point has anti submarine belt and keeps you from sliding under) though a 4 point should be sufficient.

http://www.crowenterprizes.com/index.html

i've been curious where the anti-submarine belt would normally attach to. do people usually hook it into the floor? i have tube there i can attach to

but i am an idiot - my cross bar is way below shoulder level. pottsy has pictures of the cage on his site HERE. the seats wouldnt be the best for a harness, but i dont see anything that would make me think that they would be incompatible

thanks for the help - it's helping me figure out some of the mounting issues

 

[Cameron]

Ryan,

You can see here my harnesses are mouned low too. I would like it a little higher, but its overall not bad. The shoulder belts keep you from coming forward, and the reason to keep them high is not to compress your back. Most seats have a bar in them to aid in the lack of room to mount a harness so if that were to happen, it wouldnt crunch your back.

With the harnesses keeping you from coming forward, it is not an issue on the trail normally (or at least with the same force as on the road). the bar will pivot the harness instead of the mount, making it a lot better than mounting it low and not worrying about it.

 

[ryan]

do you have any pictures of it online? i'm only seeing racing specs online, and the types of mounting are just too different.

the zuk is coming along really nicely. it's good to see it keep coming along like that

Ryan,

You can see here my harnesses are mouned low too. I would like it a little higher, but its overall not bad. The shoulder belts keep you from coming forward, and the reason to keep them high is not to compress your back. Most seats have a bar in them to aid in the lack of room to mount a harness so if that were to happen, it wouldnt crunch your back.

With the harnesses keeping you from coming forward, it is not an issue on the trail normally (or at least with the same force as on the road). the bar will pivot the harness instead of the mount, making it a lot better than mounting it low and not worrying about it.

 

[machspeed]

Judging from the pics only, that bar is too low for my comfort. If it were my truck, I would much rather have something at the height of the yj cage or the ford explorer pics.

Mounting at that low point most likely won't cause any problems in a low speed offroad use, but on the street, or anything with any level of severity, I wouldn't put myself in it. The risk of back injury is amplified by speed and sudden loss of motion (like rolling down a hill or a car crash), and mounting too low can easily burst disk and crack vertabrae, leaving you laided up in the hospital for a long time when all you were trying to do is have fun. I get a little more serious about offroad safety than most, because I have seen what bad things can happen without warning, and it all sucks. Goes back to the saying "better safe than sorry"

About the anti submarine, I have seen plated in the floor, attached to a floor bar that is part of the roll cage (same at the seats) and even attached to the seat itself. The main goal is to keep you from sliding out underneath your main harness, so I can't imagine there being alot of stress on that point (it would really hurt if there was!!)

 

[Cameron]

do you have any pictures of it online? i'm only seeing racing specs online, and the types of mounting are just too different.

the zuk is coming along really nicely. it's good to see it keep coming along like that

Thats the only other picture I have of the harnesses. Any pics you want to see inparticular?

I started a thread here in the GD that has a few more pictures of the overall Zuk.

 

[ryan]

Cameron - I was mostly curious to see how the corbeau restraints looked in real life. the website doens't really do them justice

 

[ZMan]

like was said a Cam lock isn't bad once you're used to using it, I was getting to the point where I could get it latched in one fluid motion, and that was after only a day of using it.

How the hell have you been holding those doors closed? Bungee cords still?