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Run on water and gas



OilPatch197

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I would reeeaallllly like these products to work but unfortunately they probably don't.

The reasons they probably don't are as follows.

The hydrogen converter relies on the cars battery to supply current. As the battery drains and the voltage drops the car's voltage regulator will kick in extra coils in the car's alternator to create more current to charge the battery. This increases the altenators load on the car's engine.

Unfortunate the extra load on the engine will be far greater than the extra power created by the hydrogen. This is because of the following:

1. The electrically energy produced by the alterator is less than the energy drain on the engine.
2. Energy is again lost converting the electricity energy to chemical engery stored in the HHO.
3. Energy is again lost converting the chemical energy to mechanical energy when the Hydrogen is burnt.

As you can see there is a net energy loss at each stage and the system is draining energy from the car. Sad, but unfortunately true.

This can not work! because the law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in any isolated system remains constant but cannot be recreated, although it may change forms, e.g. friction turns kinetic energy into thermal energy. In thermodynamics, the first law of thermodynamics is a statement of the conservation of energy for thermodynamic systems, and is the more encompassing version of the conservation of energy. In short, the law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.
 
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James Denton

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Like the reply----but I have to see for myself----hey I been wrong before,but I keep on going-Thank's again
 

kunar

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Like the reply----but I have to see for myself----hey I been wrong before,but I keep on going-Thank's again
do a search, this has been covered here a couple times before. there's a certain few that will swear up and down that it wont work, and there's a few that would bet their life it does....
 

94STXRanger

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I would reeeaallllly like these products to work but unfortunately they probably don't.

The reasons they probably don't are as follows.

The hydrogen converter relies on the cars battery to supply current. As the battery drains and the voltage drops the car's voltage regulator will kick in extra coils in the car's alternator to create more current to charge the battery. This increases the altenators load on the car's engine.

Unfortunate the extra load on the engine will be far greater than the extra power created by the hydrogen.
Wouldnt the alternator be producing the same amount of electricity as it did before? only differing as the speed of the engine changes? The electricity is mad in the alternator whether its used or not, at some point the regulator just stops letting the voltage to the battery raise. So The electricity would already be there.

And as i understood it the hydrogen only assists in making a more complete burn of the gasoline. Having that set up on there doesnt seem like it would be much different than having off road lights on or something similar. But thats just my thinking and im no scientist.
 

Original_Ranger84

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You can run your car off of water but it has to be set up differently I think the image is not very clear at all.

I have a friend that gets around 50 mpgs out of his little 3 cylinder geo metro.

You put the water in the intake through an injector not mix it with the fuel otherwise it won't burn/ignite. The water will turn into a vapor and expand in the cylinder when the gas is ignited, water in gas form expands alot so it will force the piston down fastercause it expands more then the regular gas. That is where the power is gained and your gas mileage will go up. WWII planes did this at take off and stuff.

That kit looks like it is designed to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen then burn the gasses which is really hard and expensive , and not very efficeint at all.
 

reno

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HEY!!! Those are the same exact plans my friend gave me a copy of, who wants a copy?

OilPatch, are really serious? I can take my trucks battery, and let it run all night producing hydrogen, and still have more than enough power left in the battery to start the truck. Have you not ever done this to remove rust? Making hydrogen is very old news, it is just being made more efficient now. And if you watch the video, the one on that site where you see the man with a torch, he is the inventor. He converted his car, it was on the local news, because he is\was a local trying to sell his water torches.
 

Jason

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I would reeeaallllly like these products to work but unfortunately they probably don't.

The reasons they probably don't are as follows.

The hydrogen converter relies on the cars battery to supply current. As the battery drains and the voltage drops the car's voltage regulator will kick in extra coils in the car's alternator to create more current to charge the battery. This increases the altenators load on the car's engine.

Unfortunate the extra load on the engine will be far greater than the extra power created by the hydrogen. This is because of the following:

1. The electrically energy produced by the alterator is less than the energy drain on the engine.
2. Energy is again lost converting the electricity energy to chemical engery stored in the HHO.
3. Energy is again lost converting the chemical energy to mechanical energy when the Hydrogen is burnt.

As you can see there is a net energy loss at each stage and the system is draining energy from the car. Sad, but unfortunately true.

This can not work! because the law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in any isolated system remains constant but cannot be recreated, although it may change forms, e.g. friction turns kinetic energy into thermal energy. In thermodynamics, the first law of thermodynamics is a statement of the conservation of energy for thermodynamic systems, and is the more encompassing version of the conservation of energy. In short, the law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.
Can you elaborate how this law can be applied using the other part of the system? The fuel being ignited and releasing energy. The system as a whole fits into the Law of Conservation since the car and the movement of such expels energy. So when the system as a whole is studied you will find that it fits. The car uses the balance of the energy and then some therefore no energy was recreated. It is only using a more efficient source of energy to fuel motion.

I have not seen this in a car personally but i have seen this type of setup running a torch on a co-workers deck. he is another "theorist" like some here and he jumped on this the second he heard about it years ago. Given the small size of what he built (12x12x12) and the fact that it was emitting a constant 6 inch flame, I would say it is plausible to build a system like this that could make a major difference in gasoline usage or even possibly, after much trial and error, power a car.
 

94STXRanger

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Oilpatch didnt really prove a net loss. He showed that there is potential for loss, but no numbers on the loss, or numbers on the gain, so how can he say there is net loss?
 

cocoasranger

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Jewelers have used torches with hydrogen generators for years for fine work. If you want large amounts of hydrogen do what they did during the civil war to generate hydrogen for observation balloons. Drop some zinc (or magnesium powder) into hydrochloric acid and large amounts of hydrogen are generated really fast. They could fill a large balloon in very little time with this method.They ran the resulting gas through a crude filter to remove impurities on it's way to the balloon.:icon_thumby:

You could probably use magnesium castings, etc. which are plentiful in scrapyards.
 

reno

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I know once I have time to sit down and really study these plans, I figure it will be easier to put together than it looks. I still have to get over to my buddy's house and look at what he has, his might be simpler.

This one has an awful lot of Electronics to it, from what I have seen so far it has a window detector with a trigger, but the schematic shows it going to a connector which means I need to look at the other part of the print. I guess I should really print it out, probably be easier to read.

I will check with my friend ASAP, he is supposed to be building a test kit out of his plans and wants to use the Ranger as a test for 30 days. If it is done (I doubt it, he works like 12 - 14 hr days) I will post here as well. I believe, if anything, it will increase about 5mpg, that is me though.
 

reno

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Jewelers have used torches with hydrogen generators for years for fine work. If you want large amounts of hydrogen do what they did during the civil war to generate hydrogen for observation balloons. Drop some zinc (or magnesium powder) into hydrochloric acid and large amounts of hydrogen are generated really fast. They could fill a large balloon in very little time with this method.They ran the resulting gas through a crude filter to remove impurities on it's way to the balloon.:icon_thumby:

You could probably use magnesium castings, etc. which are plentiful in scrapyards.

If ya did that, then you would have to compress it into a container, I would then suggest you carry a full bag of miracles with you. If that bag is empty, stay home, that much hydrogen being compressed would be worse than the Hindenburg disaster, you would essentially have a very large bomb installed to your vehicle, just waiting for a wreck.
 

donlightbody

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using a pulse width modulator you can control how much current the generator draws. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfc_6Xx-SGQ&feature=related

also different designs and water mixtures draw different amounts. search for "hydrogen booster" on youtube for ALOT of info in this stuff. one reason it often apears not to work is because the O2 sensor is picking up on all that O in the exhaust and wants to richen the mixture. I've heard of some people removong th 02 sensor from the loop when the gen is on and found a vid of one guy who is intercepting and controling the O2 sensor's signal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzlGD6b1RW0
Also, someone on youtube w a BII 2.9 found to hook up the hydrogen line to the vacuum input in the back of the plenum instead of befor the throttlebody, thereby bypassing the engine control sensors. I think it works if you figure out all the tricks to it.
 
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lil red

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u think i could get a copy of those
sounds like a cool votech project
and if it works well
id do it on the ranger, mabe
 

OilPatch197

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Oilpatch didnt really prove a net loss. He showed that there is potential for loss, but no numbers on the loss, or numbers on the gain, so how can he say there is net loss?
Putting additional load on the electrical system most definitely puts additional load on the engine. Your alternator is a reverse electric motor. When you draw more electricity, the alternator is harder to turn, which makes the engine work harder, which burns more fuel, obviously.


Remember, the Second Law of Thermodynamics? It hasn't been repealed. You can change one form of energy to another, but you can never achieve 100% efficiency.


The introduction of water into the fuel mix MAY increase the amount of energy that is extractable from the gasoline through chemical and/or physical interaction with the fuel air mixture.

You 'might' idle, but not enough power to drive let alone tow!

In other words: No one is selling or showing off these things has actually used it in a car? If they had, then we would actually see them starting and driving a car with one of these. They would certainly be putting those videos up.
And so far, I have not seen even one.
 
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