Right to repair

[19Walt93]

I don't consider holding a dealer responsible for having well trained techs a problem, requiring dealers to repair engines and transmissions that were sold to and installed by independents staffed by untrained "techs" is the problem. The policy helps the parts department- and Ford- sell components to unqualified installers. And the legislature wants those clowns to work on powertrain and emissions control systems and give them free access to information dealers must pay for? I have friends who practice medicine and I'm sure I could get instructions on how to remove a kidney but that doesn't mean I should operate on someone.

 

[Roert42]

I don't consider holding a dealer responsible for having well trained techs a problem, requiring dealers to repair engines and transmissions that were sold to and installed by independents staffed by untrained "techs" is the problem. The policy helps the parts department- and Ford- sell components to unqualified installers. And the legislature wants those clowns to work on powertrain and emissions control systems and give them free access to information dealers must pay for? I have friends who practice medicine and I'm sure I could get instructions on how to remove a kidney but that doesn't mean I should operate on someone.

If you don’t want to clean up other people’s messes, then your better off not working for an OEM. It’s the same in every industry. (You come in clean up someone’s mess, then get chewed up because it cost to much.) You got higher bills because you are trained and certified out the wazoo, and you can make the problems go away, even ones nobody else can solve.

If you don’t want to get shafted on warranty work, don’t do. Only problem is, it’s a sales gimmick, and everyone else does it. Good luck selling any new cars.

Either way, if your saying people shouldn’t be allowed to determine what they do with things they own, because they aren’t smart enough, that’s absurd.

 

[Dirtman]

I don't consider holding a dealer responsible for having well trained techs a problem, requiring dealers to repair engines and transmissions that were sold to and installed by independents staffed by untrained "techs" is the problem. The policy helps the parts department- and Ford- sell components to unqualified installers. And the legislature wants those clowns to work on powertrain and emissions control systems and give them free access to information dealers must pay for? I have friends who practice medicine and I'm sure I could get instructions on how to remove a kidney but that doesn't mean I should operate on someone.

Damn you must think Forscan is the most evil software ever created.

 

[adsm08]

I support right to repair laws that say the information has to be available somewhere, not ones that say someone paying for access to the info has to supply it for free to someone else.

So Ford and Chevy can't lock up all their repair info, but maybe have to make it available on sites like AllData or ProDemand, where non-dealer entities still have to pay for it.

In the scenarios that Walt presented the dealer I work at would have gladly done the repairs. We would also have gladly presented the estimates to the shops that did the original work rather than the customer.

I also understand the frustration of having to fix other people's messes. There is a used car dealer near our shop, named after a certain prescious metal often used in spark plugs, that maintains a close business relationship with us as their previous and current service manager were both techs in our shop at one point, but their guys are goons.

In the last year I have replaced an intercooler and a flex plate in a 1.5L Fusion after they put an engine in it and damaged the intercooler, and failed to make sure the alignment dowel were in place. I also worked on an 11 F150 that they'd just replaced the engine in. It came in blowing black smoke, hard starts, CEL, P0440 and P0441 (O2 sensors reporting backwards side to side). Despite the harness being designed to basically make this impossible they had managed to swap the plugs for the injector harnesses and they were firing backwards. Fixed that without actually removing the fuel rails and it promptly (like before I even left the bay) developed a severe fuel leak where the sealing and support rings on the injectors had been installed backwards. I fixed the one that was leaking, shipped it (customer's directive) and was told about a week later it was towed back to them leaking on the other side.

 

[RonD]

Well it costs alot of money to feed and care for the 100 monkeys locked in a room with 100 computers that write the software for vehicles, Apple and Microsoft also have that same expense

So I can see them not wanting to just put it out their for anyone to copy and use

There has been some cost cutting lately, so may be down to 90 monkeys now, which is why there are more glitches and recalls

 

[Uncle Gump]

Well it costs alot of money to feed and care for the 100 monkeys locked in a room with 100 computers that write the software for vehicles,

I swore I heard a couple software engineers forming a new movement... The SELM. Software Engineers Lives Matter

 

[19Walt93]

If you don’t want to clean up other people’s messes, then your better off not working for an OEM. It’s the same in every industry. (You come in clean up someone’s mess, then get chewed up because it cost to much.) You got higher bills because you are trained and certified out the wazoo, and you can make the problems go away, even ones nobody else can solve.

If you don’t want to get shafted on warranty work, don’t do. Only problem is, it’s a sales gimmick, and everyone else does it. Good luck selling any new cars.

Either way, if your saying people shouldn’t be allowed to determine what they do with things they own, because they aren’t smart enough, that’s absurd.

Refusing to do warranty work can get your franchise pulled. If a dealer does work under warranty, Ford can decide up to 12 months later to charge it back so anything questionable prompted me to get the FSE involved. If he decided it was not a warrantable repair and documented it, we were off the hook.

 

[19Walt93]

Damn you must think Forscan is the most evil software ever created.

Never encountered Forscan. Is it like the $29 scanner Autozone uses to do free alleged diag?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Never encountered Forscan. Is it like the $29 scanner Autozone uses to do free alleged diag?

No, it is a lot better... and free for a PC.

I used it catch a misfire that was too random to throw a code, it would only do it going up a hill.

#5 had a misfire 5% of the time. New coil pack and no trip to the dealer required.

Wife's car threw a CEL and had a dead miss. Swung into hobo freight and snagged a $30 scanner to see if the rear wiper reserviour was low or if main reactor failure was immenant. #5 (different vehicle) injector fault. Limped it home and stuck an injector in it. Again no dealer required.

I like being able to diagnose and repair stuff on my own.

 

[Roert42]

Refusing to do warranty work can get your franchise pulled. If a dealer does work under warranty, Ford can decide up to 12 months later to charge it back so anything questionable prompted me to get the FSE involved. If he decided it was not a warrantable repair and documented it, we were off the hook.

No body ever forced you to be a Ford franchise. There are 1000’s of independent auto dealers and repair shops.

If you want to be a Ford dealer, you have to play Ford’s game, and at the end of the day, that should have nothing to do with the rest of us.

 

[adsm08]

Never encountered Forscan. Is it like the $29 scanner Autozone uses to do free alleged diag?

I like ForScan. I started using it on my own stuff while I was off, since I didn't have access to an IDS. I keep it around in case the shop IDSes are in use or acting up. Only things I can't do with it are keys and software updates. It can read and write as-built/PMI, it can do OSC, read codes, show PIDS. The interface for PIDs/OSC is a little clunky compared to IDS, I actually like the software programming screen for as-built better.

 

[adsm08]

No body ever forced you to be a Ford franchise. There are 1000’s of independent auto dealers and repair shops.

If you want to be a Ford dealer, you have to play Ford’s game, and at the end of the day, that should have nothing to do with the rest of us.

But it also doesn't mean that the dealer should be forced to provide information that they pay thousands of dollars for access to to the guy down the street for free. If that guy wants access to the information he should be paying for it himself.

People like to refer to the dealer as the "stealership" largely because of high labor rates. Dealer shops have massive overhead costs that independents don't, and in my area the rates for labor between them are not that different.

 

[Roert42]

But it also doesn't mean that the dealer should be forced to provide information that they pay thousands of dollars for access to to the guy down the street for free. If that guy wants access to the information he should be paying for it himself.

People like to refer to the dealer as the "stealership" largely because of high labor rates. Dealer shops have massive overhead costs that independents don't, and in my area the rates for labor between them are not that different.

I agree 100%.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

But it also doesn't mean that the dealer should be forced to provide information that they pay thousands of dollars for access to to the guy down the street for free. If that guy wants access to the information he should be paying for it himself.

People like to refer to the dealer as the "stealership" largely because of high labor rates. Dealer shops have massive overhead costs that independents don't, and in my area the rates for labor between them are not that different.

The dealer doesn't.

I don't know exactly how it works but I don't think hobo freight and snap off go around beating down dealers doors wanting to know how their diagnostic equipment works.

 

[fastpakr]

I like ForScan. I started using it on my own stuff while I was off, since I didn't have access to an IDS. I keep it around in case the shop IDSes are in use or acting up. Only things I can't do with it are keys and software updates. It can read and write as-built/PMI, it can do OSC, read codes, show PIDS. The interface for PIDs/OSC is a little clunky compared to IDS, I actually like the software programming screen for as-built better.

What keys can you not do with Forscan?