Right to repair

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I've been reading several different articles online about this. I found this one from the FTC itself. This will probably have bearing on newer trucks.

FTC Report to Congress Examines Anti-Competitive Repair Restrictions, Recommends Ways to Expand Consumers’ Repair Options

In a new report to Congress, the Federal Trade Commission identifies numerous types of repair restrictions, such as using adhesives that make parts difficult to replace, limiting the availability of spare parts, and making diagnostic software unavailable.

www.ftc.gov

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

John Deere has been doing it forever.

Nebraska was going to take them and Apple to court over it a few years ago... and then all of the sudden dropped it (smelled like a payoff)

They don't like it but right now automakers have a law to keep things open.

 

[RonD]

Well in fairness I don't think most things made to today are made to be repairable, labor is just too expensive

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Well in fairness I don't think most things made to today are made to be repairable, labor is just too expensive

Like Deere has it locked up so if you want a code reader the only place that can make it is Deere... and unless you are a dealer you ain't getting one.

Deere's official stance is you do not actually pay for the machine, you pay for the right to use the machine and as such they only want dealers to fix their machine. So the software is all proprietary and nobody can get it.

Not a good thing on multiple levels and you DO NOT want this crap bleeding into the automotive world.

 

[Dirtman]

It's an extremely valid argument but to play the devils advocate here, you do always maintain the right not to buy stuff from companies that do this. Before I buy anything electronic for example I will research a bit and make sure parts are available, components are replaceable etc. A key reason I've been using DeWalt tools for over 20 some years is a prime example, they don't change the battery design every other year so you're forced to buy new tools like black and decker etc. Slightly different then buying a million dollar combine but the theory is still valid. If a company builds products that can't be repaired or can't be repaired by the owner that company can eff right off...

 

[adsm08]

Ford will never have to worry about trying to make their software proprietary or any of this other crap. The design alone and the need for a million special tools and having almost none of the fasteners be reusable will prevent anyone who isn't dumb enough to work at a dealership from bothering to try and work on it.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

It's an extremely valid argument but to play the devils advocate here, you do always maintain the right not to buy stuff from companies that do this. Before I buy anything electronic for example I will research a bit and make sure parts are available, components are replaceable etc. A key reason I've been using DeWalt tools for over 20 some years is a prime example, they don't change the battery design every other year so you're forced to buy new tools like black and decker etc. Slightly different then buying a million dollar combine but the theory is still valid. If a company builds products that can't be repaired or can't be repaired by the owner that company can eff right off...

Yeah but if given the choice nobody will have it open.

All the ag companies have it locked up... The only alternative is basically pre 1990 equipment if you don't want to play their game.

 

[Dirtman]

Ford will never have to worry about trying to make their software proprietary or any of this other crap. The design alone and the need for a million special tools and having almost none of the fasteners be reusable will prevent anyone who isn't dumb enough to work at a dealership from bothering to try and work on it.

Right!?! why is there 2 different size phillips head screw drivers required to take apart my truck!?

 

[adsm08]

Right!?! why is there 2 different size phillips head screw drivers required to take apart my truck!?

More, why does the screw to remove the air box ducting on the Escapes change from engine to engine and year to year? Why can we not pick a size, 7 or 8 mm, and stick with it?

Also, why can I never touch anything I need to touch to work on the vehicle?

 

[broncc]

Lucky that my state had right to repair on the ballot last election and it easily passed 3:1

I don't think it will ever effect me though, I don't exactly plan to own anything OBDII for a long time...

 

[Dirtman]

Lucky that my state had right to repair on the ballot last election and it easily passed 3:1

I don't think it will ever effect me though, I don't exactly plan to own anything OBDII for a long time...

OBD2 is kinda the exact opposite of what we are talking about here since it is a mandatory universal system that allows anyone to access the information...

 

[broncc]

It was more intended to be a time period marker than a specific target of scorn. I have been hooked lately on older cars. They look great and early EFI stuff is super cool.

 

[19Walt93]

OBD2 is kinda the exact opposite of what we are talking about here since it is a mandatory universal system that allows anyone to access the information...

Not quite, OBD II mandates a bunch of generic codes that can be read with a common scanner but there are many proprietary codes that only dealer scanners can read. Often the proprietary codes are needed to find the root cause.

 

[19Walt93]

I was against the so called "right to repair" proposals when I was a service manager. I paid the techs for the time they spent doing on line training to maintain their certifications. I also paid them their regular 9 hours a day while at classroom training, paid for rental cars, hotels, food, and expenses. We had to buy access to online training and shop manuals from Ford every year which cost over $5000 and the law proposed in Mass would have made that information free to independent garages who competed directly with us who spent zero on training. It was bad enough that we had to jump through hoops to get approval and do warranty repairs on reman engines and transmission installed by independents- and then get paid about $.60 on the dollar to fix them at warranty rates. One Taurus came in for us to fix the leak in a newly installed reman transmission. We found the front pump seal was leaking because the "mechanic" who installed it had broken the ear off the block so one side had no locating dowel to hold the transmission in proper alignment. One engine later the trans no longer leaked. An F150 came in with the same complaint, Instead of dealing with removing the rusty exhaust, the shop cut the transmission crossmember on both sides and welded it back together after. We took it apart the right way. In order to do warranty transmission work, a dealer tech has to be certified, a time consuming and expensive process. I'm not talking about ASE certification, which is a little more than a joke, I mean Ford certified.

 

[Roert42]

I was against the so called "right to repair" proposals when I was a service manager. I paid the techs for the time they spent doing on line training to maintain their certifications. I also paid them their regular 9 hours a day while at classroom training, paid for rental cars, hotels, food, and expenses. We had to buy access to online training and shop manuals from Ford every year which cost over $5000 and the law proposed in Mass would have made that information free to independent garages who competed directly with us who spent zero on training. It was bad enough that we had to jump through hoops to get approval and do warranty repairs on reman engines and transmission installed by independents- and then get paid about $.60 on the dollar to fix them at warranty rates. One Taurus came in for us to fix the leak in a newly installed reman transmission. We found the front pump seal was leaking because the "mechanic" who installed it had broken the ear off the block so one side had no locating dowel to hold the transmission in proper alignment. One engine later the trans no longer leaked. An F150 came in with the same complaint, Instead of dealing with removing the rusty exhaust, the shop cut the transmission crossmember on both sides and welded it back together after. We took it apart the right way. In order to do warranty transmission work, a dealer tech has to be certified, a time consuming and expensive process. I'm not talking about ASE certification, which is a little more than a joke, I mean Ford certified.

Sounds more like a problem with Ford, rather then everyone else.