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Rear brakes

James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
The McGard are real nice, but at least at CarID they have only the sets of 16 which is wrong I need 20 (5 per wheel) that is weird. Nice alternate-head ones too that most people wouldn't have the wrench for.
The ones on there, I assume original, really aren't corroded - some of the chrome wore off maybe but they look decent... I only need 5.
 


James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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XLT 4x4 & B3000
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0L in XLT, 3.0L in B3000
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
Now I'm pissed at RockAuto. They shipped two drums, they are same part@, but not the same. One is in Centric box, one is in Posi-Quiet box with Centric label on the side. They aren't the same in appearance and they weigh different by about 2 lbs. I don't want to put mismatched parts. I set up to return one, but I'm afraid now they will just send another mismatch. I'm wondering if I should just return both and get the drums locally. What a mess. I suppose they both will work, I just don't like this kind of treatment where I get two parts that are supposed to be the same and aren't. Am I making too much of it? You can't call them. I have to get this done this month.

The Posi-Quiet it heavier by about 2-3 lbs than the other drum. I guess I don't care which they are, but I'd like them to match... should I try to get another Posi? They are hard to deal with, there's zero customer online service.
Or should I return both of them and ask for a matched set... this is nuts.
 
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alwaysFlOoReD

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Order one more and send back the one that doesnt match. Take pics too.
 

James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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2WD / 4WD
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Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
Edited. Thanks Alwaysfloored you must have gone thru this, that's a great idea!!
 
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James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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Roanoke VA
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Make / Model
XLT 4x4 & B3000
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4.0 V6
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4.0L in XLT, 3.0L in B3000
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
You'd think the packers would have the sense to know that sending a mismatched pair, right away the receiver is going to go wtf. If it was just diff boxes, that's one thing, but they are actually different.
So I ordered one, and set up to return one of the original set... have until Sep 12 and my new one should arrive Tues so plenty of time. I'm having a hard time telling if I'm getting ripped off somewhere, because of add'l shipping plus that ordering one costs more than they will credit me from the set, so technically maybe I should return the new one (under it's order)... kind of tired of messing with it at this point so I think in the end it's going to cost me about $20 which I'm not happy about but you get to the point where it's like, hey, I need to get this done, and end up just eating unforeseen costs.
Hopefully they don't send yet a 3rd kind.
BTW I got 4 wheel cyl's in my order, Two are correct part#134.65018 two are incorrect part# 134.65025 don't know what those go to. The correct part# has a bit larger bore I think otherwise they are the same... weird huh. The pair of them cost about $15 so not like they sent me lots of free stuff huh. Seems like their packers aren't doing that great a job sending out parts for free that aren't ordered (the mismatched drums besides).
 

James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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Transmission
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2WD / 4WD
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Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
Rec'd the other drum, it matches the Centric I had one of them so that's the pair. Sending back the mis-match. I guess I'll be out the shipping for the replacement drum, but I'd rather do that than have a mismatched pair. The two Centric drums look the same and weigh the same so they should be fine. Of course if I get the thing apart and find out someone had recently replaced the parts... but I really doubt that will happen. So it looks like I'm ready to do the job, which for me will be probably the better part of a day - better to just take my time and try to get it right.

What happens is that if I use the p-brake, which I do unless on totally level ground (and that's only because of this issue), when I start driving the left rear grabs right up. It goes away after a few uses of the brakes, but, I'm pretty sure if the inspection guys find that, they'll fail it. And that aside, it aint right, that's for sure.
 

Shran

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I would email their customer service and ask them to cover the shipping. If you just use the website form to return stuff you might get screwed into paying shipping. service@rockauto.com

I HATE their website return thing. It sucks donkey balls and I have told them that several times. They are much more responsive through email. If they sent you something other than what you ordered, then it is on them to make it right!
 

James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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Make / Model
XLT 4x4 & B3000
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0L in XLT, 3.0L in B3000
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
OK thanks for the email!! Yeah... I mean technically they sent the "right part" as it's the same part#, but they were quite different in appearance and in weight so to me, that's not a good pair of drums, a pair should be the same. I'll write them and thanks again for that email.
 

James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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Location
Roanoke VA
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1997 and 1999
Make / Model
XLT 4x4 & B3000
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0L in XLT, 3.0L in B3000
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
Got drums off, left side (which was dragging) was unholy mess inside (pics later). Lower spring was broken, which would most likely explain dragging as nothing would be pulling the shoes back together (away from the drum) at the bottom.

Could not tell from all the accumulated sludge/brake dust whether axle seal is leaking or not, but I suspect a lot was from wheel cylinder as I know there was fluid loss because I've topped off the reservoir a few times over the last year. Replacing axle seal looks like kind of a big deal and probably would have to take brakes apart again for it. I think what I'll do is once stuff is back together, check axle fluid level, top off if necessary, then check it later and see if it's losing. If it is, should also be able to tell also at the seal since all now is clean.

Cleaned up backing plate and all parts. Ton of sludge. Very messy and glad I have box of gloves. Have to get another can of brake cleaner. It was that bad.

Put in new cyl that side. Bleeder heads must be bad mfg they mike 9.6 so 3/8" should fit head but no way. Have to use 10mm which is a bit loose. I think they are supposed to be 3/8". Trying to get right size speed bleeders but I can swap them after install.

Right side not as dirty but still pretty nasty so will do cyl there too plus the rest (drum, shoes, springs).

Would have liked to have had new slotted rods (that go thru the wheel cyl outer seals) as mine were not perfect but I cleaned them up/polished with fine sandpaper the best I could. I think the main thing there is you don't want them really rough or it would eventually wear on the outer seal and dirt/debris could get in there and maybe affect the inner seal (causing leak), but I think they'll be ok. I put a bit sil-glide on the rods where they go thru the outer seals, that's obviously where they move back and forth, but that seal isn't sealing brake fluid, it's just to keep out dirt.

I was not able to locate the rubber part of the brake line where video said clamp it off when changing out the wheel cyl, but, no biggie, I loosened cyl's bolts first, swapped the line, you don't lose much, besides, probably a good thing to lose some of the old fluid anyway.

So now will re-assemble left side, I have to think it will act way different all cleaned up and with good springs etc etc. Right side should go faster. Good idea to do one side at a time because when you take it all apart there is a bunch of parts that absent a reference would be a puzzle at least to a beginner.

Questions.
1. Apparently there was a tsb to silicone-seal holes in the backing plate. I have no holes in the backing plate except for the springs to attach. Is it intended I seal those after the springs are in, or, is it just that I have backing plates without extra holes?
2. When inspection is done, how do they check for good shoes? If they pull the drum, that means they might change the adjustment? I don't see how you could check for good shoes without taking of the drum. If they loosen the adjustment to take off the drums then they would re-adjust?
3. It was mentioned there might be dimples where grease is intended. I'm not yet seeing them. But I do see there are 4 high points on the backing plate where parts rub - should I lube there at all or no? Edit: the rub points have little dimples in them... found them...
4. When bleeding, I can do gravity bleed, or, if I'm doing it by the brake pedal, I don't need engine on (brake assist) do I?
 
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Shran

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1 - I would not bother doing that
2 - Removing a drum is about the only way to visually inspect the shoes. If they want to remove it... it's on them to put it back correctly.
3 - That's where some people lube them (where the shoes touch the backing plate.)
4 - I never have good luck gravity bleeding brakes. I always have someone there to help - basically that person pumps the pedal 3 times and holds it on the third pump, at that point you crack the bleeder, the pedal falls to the floor and the helper holds it there until you close the bleeder. Repeat that process until you're getting fluid with no bubbles. Easy and takes just a few minutes. I do it with the engine off but it doesn't really matter.
 

James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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Make / Model
XLT 4x4 & B3000
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0L in XLT, 3.0L in B3000
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
I got left side all back together. Right side should go a lot faster now I've done one.
Questions:
1. When I bleed, is there any reason I can't do it with the wheel off, which makes it a lot easier to see/get to bleed screw? As long as the drum is fully seated seems like that should be ok? Or should wheel be on?
2. The two sides are mirror images of each other, but the 2 top springs aren't. They hook around the bottom of the top pin on one side and around the top on the other - they have to in order to hook at the lower side (to the shoes). Is this normal? Seems like technically the springs should be mirrors, but they aren't. If they were mirrors the top hooks would be opposite orientation (they aren't). I believe it is of no concern but just checking to make sure this is normal. It means the body of the spring approaches the top pin where they hook at a slightly different angle side vs side, again, probably of no consequence but want to check for sure.
Thanks.
 
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Uncle Gump

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You can do it with wheel off. I would recommend just letting them gravity bleed first. In fact let then drip and keep master full until new brake fluid is seen. Basically a poor man's flush of the old fluid.

Also remember that rear brake shoe adjustment has everything to do with pedal height. If the rear shoes are adjusted loose... the brake pedal will be low. You could bleed the system for days and the pedal will still be low. I tend to favor tighter adjustments with new brake shoes... they wear pretty quick until they fully seat on the new drums. If you did the job right... you can adjust the rear brakes by simply backing up the vehicle and pumping the brake pedal.
 

James Morse

1997 XLT 4.0L 4x4 1999 Mazda B3000 2wd
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Location
Roanoke VA
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1997 and 1999
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XLT 4x4 & B3000
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4.0 V6
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4.0L in XLT, 3.0L in B3000
Transmission
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2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
235/75R15 but changing to oem 265/75R15 or more likely 31x10.5
My credo
There are two trucks. Both are sorted. Probably selling the '99.
Thanks. Are you saying that I can put on the drums with the shoes loose enough to easily get the drum on, bleed, then put the wheels on, then, back up and at the same time pump the brake, and the 'self adjuster' (the star wheel) will automatically ratchet them to the correct location? So I don't have to reach thru the back plate and do that by hand? What causes the star wheel to ratchet tighter by itself, it has to turn? If that's true then all the stuff about adjusting the star wheel by hand is crap... or else I'm missing something. As I'm understanding it from what you say, it wouldn't matter how a person pre-adjusts them (as long as not too tight), the mechanism will always snug them up as tight as they want to be when you back up and brake, which everyone undoubtedly does. So if someone says "I like them a bit loose" they wouldn't stay loose for long.

>Added second question to prev post you just replied.
 
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Uncle Gump

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Technically... yes

But... slide the drum on with loose shoes. Then give them a proper adjustment. No reason not to... and you will know they're adjusted.

Then bleed the brakes and road test.
 

pjtoledo

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if the star wheel needs lots of clicks, like 50, the backing up and braking gets a bit old. it only adjusts as you hit the brakes, not as the brakes are being held on.
if the drums are new, or turned, there won't be a lip so you can test fit just the edge of the drum as you adjust the star wheel to get it close.

by the way, drums that are too tight can quickly get hot, which causes them to get even tighter, and the cycle escalates.
the self adjusting while backing up will not get them too tight,
 

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