Questions for Everyone about Detonation or "Pinging"

[ford4wd08]

I don't know that I have ever had a vehicle experience pinging.... All of my vehicles have been EFI (I know they can still ping), and have had solid controls in good shape to prevent it.

I'm just curious what it sounds like and how to make sure you don't have it.

For instance, I can tell a difference in noise on my 2.8 in the B2 when I load the engine, higher gear, locking the torque converter, pulling a hill etc.

I know a lot of that is normal as load effects engine sounds, but how do I tell if any of it is pinging?

This sewing machine of an engine makes a lot of noise compared to newer engines lol. I know it is a solid tappet engine too, so it bounds to make more noise, I just want to be sure I am not causing any harm.

Engine is running better than ever, running cooler on the temp gauge since I fixed the timing and vacuum issues. Starts right up, just don't want any pinging and want to be sure I am preventing it without any computer controls to intervene.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Kind of a hard sound to describe. If your worried about it run the fuel tank low then fill up with 93 and see if the noises change or go away

 

[MikeG]

High-pitched buzzing.

 

[ford4wd08]

Kind of a hard sound to describe. If your worried about it run the fuel tank low then fill up with 93 and see if the noises change or go away

That was next on my list. Papaw always ran "high test" in this thing for some reason. I don't think it will hurt anything for 1 tank.

I do believe I'm going to start running 100% gas in it for sure. I can source it in 87 or 91/93 octane in my area.

 

[ford4wd08]

High-pitched buzzing.

This sounds more like valve noise, not necessarily bad, it is just more pronounced under load. It is a "louder engine" by design with the solid tappet.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

That was next on my list. Papaw always ran "high test" in this thing for some reason. I don't think it will hurt anything for 1 tank.

I do believe I'm going to start running 100% gas in it for sure. I can source it in 87 or 91/93 octane in my area.

It should run on 87 just fine....even with E10.

Athough pinging issues can be hard to figure out. My 2.9 pings on 87 (lightly under certain conditons) so i just put 89 or 93 in depending on temp outside anf run it.

Pinging can be caused by anything from something stupid like to much timing advance, clear to serious internal issuea like carbon buildup, flat cam, etc.

 

[cbxer55]

my 98 3.0 has had really bad pinging in the past, sounded like marbles in a tin can. I hear it a lot around here, people pulling away from a stop, giving it a lot of throttle, and you hear what sounds like marbles rattling around in a tin can. I've been running 93 octane in it for years, like since 2007 or so. I tried the seafoam through the brake hose, let it sit, then start it and smoke out the hood. Didn't do a frikkin thing. I am fortunate that the only station in my area that has 93 is only three miles away.

Then I did the holey hood mod, hood scoop, two small scoops directly over the filter, and two heat vents on the sides. I've been running 91 octane ever since. I tried 89 once, but still had pining at medium throttle. So I'll stay with 91 for now. I did fill it with 93 the other day, since I was there filling three containers with 93 for my bikes.

Moral of the story, 93 octane won't hurt a thing.

 

[RonD]

Pinging sound is what diesel engines sound like when idling, diesels are built to withstand some pinging because thats literally how they work, the high compression ignites the diesel/air mix without a spark so it doesn't always ignite evenly.
When the mix ignites in two or more locations inside the cylinder the explosive wave fronts collide and make the "pinging/knocking" noise

In a gasoline engine it usually means the gas/air mix is lean or lower octane so the compression is igniting mix just before the spark does so you get the two explosive wave fronts and pinging
Gasoline engines are not built to withstand this and it can/will melt pistons and valves

You could try running 91 or 93 octane for a tank or two and seeing if the noise goes away that would tell you if it was pinging that you heard

Pinging will cause a spike in cylinder heat and you say temp seems to stay low, temp will go up climbing a hill, thats normal, but if it spikes too much thats an issue

 

[ford4wd08]

Pinging sound is what diesel engines sound like when idling, diesels are built to withstand some pinging because thats literally how they work, the high compression ignites the diesel/air mix without a spark so it doesn't always ignite evenly.
When the mix ignites in two or more locations inside the cylinder the explosive wave fronts collide and make the "pinging/knocking" noise

In a gasoline engine it usually means the gas/air mix is lean or lower octane so the compression is igniting mix just before the spark does so you get the two explosive wave fronts and pinging
Gasoline engines are not built to withstand this and it can/will melt pistons and valves

You could try running 91 or 93 octane for a tank or two and seeing if the noise goes away that would tell you if it was pinging that you heard

Pinging will cause a spike in cylinder heat and you say temp seems to stay low, temp will go up climbing a hill, thats normal, but if it spikes too much thats an issue

Hi Ron, as for the operating temps, it is running "cooler" according to the gage in the dash than it was before I got timing and everything straightened out. That's what leads me to believe it is not pinging.

As much as the timing was jumping previously, I'm sure I had some pinging at that point in time. I think it is just the noise of the engine running.

I don't believe I'm lean as I adjusted the mixture screws out some since I fixed the timing.

I think what I'm hearing is just a loaded engine making power, or a little bit of lugging of the engine.

 

[RonD]

Well you are there we are not, lol

But "the noise" did concern you, so maybe put in some higher octane fuel and see if "the noise" changes or goes away
If its "just" engine noise then no change

 

[ford4wd08]

Well you are there we are not, lol

But "the noise" did concern you, so maybe put in some higher octane fuel and see if "the noise" changes or goes away
If its "just" engine noise then no change

You're right lol.... It is just hard to go from driving a 2016 F150 where all I hear are turbo's whistling and tire road noise, to this beast from the 80's. Something running well from the 80's might make someone think it was going to blow up in 2020.

 

[MikeG]

If an engine is lugging, then it is more likely to ping.

 

[RonD]

If an engine is lugging, then it is more likely to ping.

Yes, it does, but do you know why?


Because its trying to provide power outside of its optimum torque range, so cylinders heat up and lower octane fuel will start to self-ignite

The 3.0l Vulcan was a typical example of this, often called a "pingy engine"
It did have a higher compression ratio but more often than not it was lugged when driving
3.0l Vulcan makes best power at 3,600rpm, so power range was 3,100-3,900 rpm
People would drive them at 2,400-3,100 rpm, which is "normal" for most engines
So lugging the engine and then also complaining about NO POWER, lol
Knuckle heads

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Yes, it does, but do you know why?


Because its trying to provide power outside of its optimum torque range, so cylinders heat up and lower octane fuel will start to self-ignite

The 3.0l Vulcan was a typical example of this, often called a "pingy engine"
It did have a higher compression ratio but more often than not it was lugged when driving
3.0l Vulcan makes best power at 3,600rpm, so power range was 3,100-3,900 rpm
People would drive them at 2,400-3,100 rpm, which is "normal" for most engines
So lugging the engine and then also complaining about NO POWER, lol
Knuckle heads

People expected them to operate at more "truck like" RPMs....like the 2.9.

Also...some light ping at cruise is normal as well

 

[cbxer55]

Mine is an automatic, but I shift it manually more often than not, to keep the rpms up. With the large three inch intake tube, it doesn't like being lugged at all. I keep OD off unless I'm at highway speeds. Same with my 4.0 Stang and Lightning.