Project: Birthday Present


adsm08

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Ok, so I might as well run a thread for this. Not my car, not really my project, almost none of it is my idea. I am just doing the hard parts.

So, for my mom's 40th birthday my dad bought her a 65 Mustang. It was an out of state car, needed some work for safety inspection, had a few minor trans issues, mostly leaking like a stuck pig, and so major wiring issues, etc. By the time we got the inspection stuff hammered out the car wouldn't start. We had a friend who was an old-time mechanic with stage 1 Alzheimer's look at it. Norm looked, took some things apart, misplaced the points, and then forgot he had ever worked on it (that is not a joke, that is the literal chain of events. I found the points in a tool box with my dad's timing light three years later. I do not take Alzheimer's lightly after watching Norm succumb to it, and now doing it again with my grandma.). Mom's 56th birthday is tomorrow, and she has never driven this car.

Original specs were 200 I-6, with C4 auto.

When I first started messing with cars I tried to get this thing back on the road. I figured out the points (I think), got the initial timing reset, but never got it to crank, due to the electrical problems. Then I got mad because I didn't understand anything electrical, took the engine and trans out, because dad wanted a V8 in it anyway, and left for school, a venture from which I never truly returned home.

So while I was in school we found a 5.0, needed rebuilt, it was already in pieces. Bought it cheap, brought it home, mic'd everything, cleaned it up, honed stuff, new bearings, new rings, oil, bag, and then it waited for 6 years.

Progress from the last two weeks:

Heads, rockers, rods, lifters, oil pump, etc




Old trans, V-8 bell, waiting for rebuild kit with V8 spec'd internals:


Valve covers were bluish-redish-nasty. Had them blasted and repainted them so that they look good:





I found red, blue, black, more blue, and then the factory grey when I went over them with a wire brush before just sending them out to get blasted.


Oil pan:


Front cover, water pump, and intake:


Detail work on the intake:




Can't just leave a Ford "Blue Oval" be silver now can I?





I know, it's not perfect, but I'm not a professional painter.

Engine is ready to go in. I am waiting on valve cover bolts, which should be here tomorrow. The car is coming up Saturday morning when the engine will be dropped in, and then I can start re-wiring it.
 


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RangerSVT

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Good project. Check out ez wiring, http://www.ezwiring.com/wiring_harness.html I've used there harnesses before on a couple street rods I had my hands on. I used the black harness, each wire is labeled every 5", very handy, very ez...

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adsm08

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Honestly, I doubt the wiring work is going to require anything so extreme. We picked up an HEI ignition kit at one of the local car shows a few weeks ago, one wire for spark, one more if we want a tach.

Most of the wiring issues aren't hacked wiring, they are green wire. Since Edges kill battery cables all the time and the battery cable comes with a huge chunk of the engine harness I have a huge pile of wire just laying in the garage. It's mostly a matter of cutting back and replacing the bad sections. I just didn't know enough 8 years ago to spot the problem until it was too late.
 

adsm08

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Car arrived:




Pretty engine:



(Anyone see the problem? I missed it.)

Empty engine bay:



(See it yet?)

Engine up:


End result of the day, engine went down, came back up, and is now on the floor.

I kinda remembered seeing something about dual sump oil pans not working in the older cars, but couldn't quite remember or find what the problem was. I found the problem.

Rear sump oil pans hit the steering. Ordered front sump pan and oil pickup tube, pushed car back outside and cleaned. Used a 1/4 of a bottle of armor-all on the passenger seat and door. Right around the time I ran out I realized I should have started on the driver's seat. Then we went and bought a carb.

Put the rear main in and rolled part of it. I'm gonna see if I can get it to roll under tomorrow, but I am not hopeful. I am also pretty sure the one valve cover is leaking already because I was priming the pump and saw some on the block where I don't think there was any before.

Anyway, work on the engine is now help up for at least a week because dad wants to paint in the engine bay. In the mean time the trans rebuilt kit arrived today, about 10 min before the car did, so I can work on the trans at lunch time, and maybe I will have it ready to go in. I am not really sure what fluid to use in it though. Did some research on it, and it appears it could take F or Merc, depends on year and composition of the friction material. Hopefully the sheet in the package will shed some light on the matter.


Also, it has made my crappy outdoor, glorified tool shed garage stink. My garage didn't really have a particular smell to it. Once we got finished working for the day we got her in, closed the door, and the wife and I went to a movie while my parents played with the baby. Get back three hours later, went out to grab something, garage smells like musty barn car. :annoyed: Going to get a can of Febreeze tomorrow, band the trigger down, and chuck it in the car with the windows up.
 

baddis

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the older mustangs used type f if i remember right. it would say on the dipstick for sure. BUT with the rebuild kit it might change
 

adsm08

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I have been told this trans should take Merc, not F. While it's in a 65, it's actually a late-build C4, from the 74-81 production run.

The dipstick doesn't say anything.
 
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bobbywalter

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any new fluid can work....just dont put f in a new trans
 

bobbywalter

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awesome epic saga too by the way.



but at this point youi need to put an engine in it that will frighten you to make it all worth the span of time.
 

adsm08

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any new fluid can work....just dont put f in a new trans
I am just going to use the bulk stuff we have at work. If you believe the label it is compatible with everything but Dexron 6, ATF+4, and a handful of full synthetics used by the Japanese makers. We have used it in everything from A4LDs to 6F35s and the new Torqshift6 without a problem.

awesome epic saga too by the way.



but at this point youi need to put an engine in it that will frighten you to make it all worth the span of time.
Now now, I wold love to, but this isn't my car. I just want to put it together and have mom be able to drive it around once in a while, not make her pee her pants when the hammer drops.




I didn't get much done the last few days, been waiting on parts. Picked up the carb tonight, went with the Edelbrok 1403, so I have to wire up the choke stat now too.

Put the second rear main seal in, this one did not roll on me, and then I cleaned for a bit. I mostly concentrated on the driver's seat and steering wheel. The wheel was DISGUSTING. Will post pics tomorrow.

Did get the trans torn down at lunch today too. Only the range sensor and the one way clutch are still in the case. It needs a good washing. I may have to order more parts too now. All of the bushings and bearings are worn down to the brass, and I am not sure if they were in the rebuild kit. There is one bag in it that I can't see it's contents because it is sandwiched between the valve body gaskets.

I also might have to replace the input shaft. I was reading on a Mustang forum tonight and saw a post that indicated the shafts were different between the 6 and 8 cyl transmissions. I went shopping and only found two shafts that seemed more related to the pre/post 74 production split than to a given engine, so I guess I will wait until the converter shows up and see if the existing shaft fits it.
 

bobbywalter

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is it a pan fill unit?


its been a bit since i went thru a c4, but theres 2 styles input as i recall....there has to be a billion c4 pages by now to make it a cake walk.

22 or 24 spline is early and 26 is later....case fill will likely be 26.


the big issues i have had has been with incompatible valve bodies. if your is complete count the splines....

i think the m2/pinto setups are the issues you are referring to though for differences between motor sizes. those have caused many a problem when i was regulalry doing swaps in the 90's and late 80's.
 

bobbywalter

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never mind.....forgot you had a pic of it.
 

adsm08

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It's a case-fill unit with a 26 spline input and a push-on modulator. The case had "81 LTD little 6 cyl" written on top of it too.

I dug into the "master rebuild kit" and found two bearings, one for the output shaft, one I haven't ID'd yet, and one thrust washer. It also has a single bad friction disc. The material was really thin and not glued on at all. :annoyed:

I got the rearward clutch pack rebuild, just have to check end play. Also hosed out/off the case really well and left it run in the solvent tank all day to get the water out.

Converter arrived today.

Anyway, pictures of the yuck:

Green is the back seat, white is the steering wheel, blue is the driver's seat and door.




Valve body post cleaning:


tail, pan and mount:



guts:





I was really surprised when I inspected the clutches and bands, they looked to be in really good shape for as much clutch material was laying on stuff when I took it apart.
 

adsm08

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Today's progress:

Built clutches, checked end play, it's spot on, air tested clutches, I tore a seal in the low/forward clutch. Now it looks like I am looking at $16 for a stupid rubber ring.

I am also accumulating quite a pile of parts on the kitchen table. At current tally I believe I have an oil pickup tube, a carb, a spacer, and belt tensioner on the table, and a torque converter over with the shoes.
 

adsm08

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Tri-Ys showed up yesterday:



I hit them with the same self-bake spray-on ceramicoat stuff from Eastwood I used on my 4.0 headers since I had a more than a can left. It's held up pretty well for spray-on self-bake. The only spots I have issues with got wet and rusty before I got the 4.0 running, so it seems to be decent stuff.

I spent the morning at work rebuilding the pump and checking the valve body for damage/stuck parts since I know a little water got in the trans while it sat. Didn't find any problems, valve body is ready to go back in.

Then dad came up this afternoon, he cleaned up rust spots in the engine bay while I worked on swapping the oil pan and pickup and got the headers on. Then we treated the rough spots in the engine bay with some phosphoric rust buster and painted the areas away from the rust. I'll finished painting Monday afternoon. Anyway, rain hit right as we finished applying the stuff that says "Keep treated surface dry for 48 hours, then paint". Pushed it in, not enough room for everything since the engine is a foot longer than it was without headers, sooo:



So glad I researched those headers and the best way to install them before buying. There is about 3mm on either side between the header and the shock tower. If I had tried to put them on in the car it never would have happened.
 

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I see the older mustangs go for pretty cheap, not in the best condition but I think they would make a fun project. You'll have to make a video of the start up. :icon_thumby:
 


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