My New House & Workshop

[Jim Oaks]

The walls where the original building and addition meet are messed up.

Alley side (original building to the right):

Opposite (house) side (original building to the left):

Inside side door:

The door doesn't have any kind of header:

This is the inside corner where the old and new building meets on the alley side. Someone filled in the separation with spray foam.

This looks like it's sagging (original building house side):

The wall to the left of the door has pushed out:

 

[97RangerXLT]

That is a lot of issues... I would seriously consider a partial demo on that area and integrate a new pole barn into the better part of the building.

You are going to shell our some serious cash keeping that building together...

AJ

 

[sgtsandman]

 

[Rick W]

Now now fellas, don’t scare the man!!

From all the pictures you sent before and now, it’s obvious to me that the front half has been there for dozens and dozens of years, and the addition has also been there a long time. To me it looks like the addition foundation preparation was not as good as it could be. Now having said that, the stairstep cracks diagonally up the block are not that big a deal. If those buildings have been sitting there for decades, And that’s all the cracking you have, that’s not bad. If you had a serious foundation problem, those cracks would be big enough for you to put your fist through them. It’s very common in residential masonry and I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

What you have to look for is down along the floor. You’re looking for horizontal cracks in the blocks or in the first level above the floor in the mortar. If you find any, are they on the inside and on the outside, and is one of those cracks much wider than the other crack. That would be the indication that the wall is tilting. That is still completely manageable, but you may want to temporary support the walls as I described before when you pull the roof off.

The other thing you want to look for is cracks in the floor on the inside, but specifically cracks that run along the wall where the foundation may have cracked and the wall is tilting out. All concrete will crack, and diagonal cracks or cracks across the floor are no big deal. But if you have a crack that runs along the wall, again, you could probably figure out if the wall would be tilting in or tilting out. But it’s still not that big a deal, it’s just something you have to be aware of and manage it when you do your remodel.

While I’m thinking about it, if you do any kind of addition that butts up against the existing slab, get a hammer drill and drill about 18 inches laterally into the side of the existing slab every so many feet (I’ll know the distance when we know the plan) and have that rebar extend into the new slab pour. That will keep the slabs level if there’s any settlement in either foundation.

The stairstep cracks could also be a result of the foundation not being deep enough, not being below the frost line. So when you get extreme cold and the water freezes in the soil, it can push the floor up a little or actually tilt the wall a little. But if it hasn’t fallen down in all this time, if you’re careful, you shouldn’t have any worries.

And things like no header over the door, that just goes on the list of things to do when you buy materials and you actually do the work. Are there headers above the double doors on the alley side? Are there headers above the window and the door on the street side? Again, easy to fix, and actually fix correctly, when you do the rest of the work.

@jimoaks ,

I know I’m a broken record, but get me/us Pictures and ask us questions, but I would say focus your energy on how you would want it laid out, without worrying about the cost of this or the cost of that, or how it will get done. Figure out what you really want, and then I and a few of the guys can get the best low-cost design and methods to buy the materials and get it done without having a heart attack.

If you do go steel, I’d avoid the tubing and go with the I-member steel. If you want doors or windows or fans or whatever, you just have to make sure they’re included in the design before they order the steel.

Finally, you are doing the exact right thing in talking to many people about many options. The more you learn and the more things get wild the more what you want to do makes sense.

Don’t get overwhelmed, this is a piece of cake no matter which option you pick.

 

[Rick W]

One afterthought, if you get tempted to fill those cracks before you do the work, stop. Wherever those cracks are, the walls may move a minuscule amount. Let them move during the construction, just don’t let them fall down. When the construction is complete, wash out the cracks with a decent pressure washer, make sure they are completely dry a few days later, and then use some weatherproof liquid nails or an epoxy to fill the cracks, i.e., something with structural strength, and you’ll have stronger walls than ever. If you fill them before you do the work, you’ll just get more cranking and have to do it again.

My 2 cents....

 

[bobbywalter]

Yeah.....I can see me living in a barndo....one in az.....one in ohio......moab.....brilliant idea.

 

[Jim Oaks]

That is a lot of issues... I would seriously consider a partial demo on that area and integrate a new pole barn into the better part of the building.

You may have a good idea.

I was going to build a guest suite for @bobbywalter in the back part of that building, but I guess I'll have to let him use the guest room in the house.

The idea of tearing down the addition that was added and adding a pole building sounds appealing. That half has more wall failure than the front half. Most of the front half is in good shape. My only concern with the slab in the addition is that there's a hair line crack running down the center of the floor the full length of the building (length not width).

If I could use that slab it might save me some money to help offset the cost of tearing that part off.

 

[bobbywalter]

I would jack it....the roof that is...and pour a wall or just redo that one.


I have 5 or 6 posts...need a few more posts and short spreaders...

Not a bad job or expensive...if you have some time. Had to redo my whole substructure.....

 

[Jim Oaks]

I'm thinking an opening on the side of the building to enter the brick building, and maybe a garage door on the alley side, and yard side.

One other thing....

The sewer line runs under that addition. A plumber dug up the line and replaced 5 or 6 feet of it because a section was cracked and began leaking when they uncovered it. More importantly they were trying to figure out why there was water standing in the line. When they broke the line open crap started pouring out. The plumber was concerned that the building may have settled and flattened out the sewer line making it lose its slope. All is good for now.

 

[Rick W]

The sewer line runs under that addition.

Is that sewer line for the crapper in that building or for the house too? If it’s the house too, now would be the time to address it if you’re concerned (water shouldn’t be standing still in the pipe!). That’s a pretty easy job too.

& no poles, trusses. I may have mentioned that before ;-). Easier and you have free span

 

[bobbywalter]

Well.....mystery solved.




Shitty situation for sure.

 

[Jim Oaks]

Sewer line is for the house. Building connects to it somewhere also.

There were some roots in it, but when the snake got to the clean out just before the city main sewer line, they couldn't figure out why it wasn't draining. The line was literally full of crap.

The weird thing is that I didn't call them because of a draining problem. I called them for a vent problem. The toilet in the half bath gurgled when you flushed the main toilet. I just wanted them to inspect the vents. I fixed that problem by adding a studor vent under the sink in the half bath.

 

[Rick W]

If the line has any kind of low spot, the crap will settle there and build up over time to the level of the hump (bottom of high spot causing the belly) in the line down steam, towards street. If that hump spot is higher than the diameter of the pipe, the pipe will fill up and eventually plug. We’re talking real mush with Texican food, so it will still flow through for a while even if full.

I suspect the building crapper drains to the rear and was tied into the house sewer which probably ran across that building in the rear, now under the addition.

Get a laborer or two and have them dig down to the drain pipe where you can from the house to the ally or street. It’s probably not down very far. Use a builders level and mark the elevations on the pipe every 5ft or so where you can expose it. You’ll find out if it’s not sloped correctly. Easy solution: take out the pipe where you can get to it, and make sure each section towards the street is lower than the one before. The new pieces, same diameter with pvc with no hub clamps back onto existing pipe.

May sound hard and a big job, once you dig down to it, it’s a few hours...

Also, it’s obvious to me the original building was built “right,” and the addition was a shade-tree amateur job. The slab was probably thinner and may not have the correct turned down footings. But having said that, I come back to if there was going to be a big problem, it would have happened already.

I think one of your choices is how much you want to spend on “pretty,” which you could get with a little caulk and paint on the existing walls, vs spending that money on better features and more space. I’m pretty sure the “problems” are cosmetic, not structural.

another thought about balancing it all. Take a legal pad (or computer) and make 3 columns. In no order, just as you think of things, 1st column what’s the item, 2nd the pros, 3rd the cons. List everything down to the light switch plate color.

once you’re done with your research, go back over the lists, and rank them by priority. I’ve done this stuff a long time and I still use this trick. The best correct options usually jump off the page!

good luck, always my 2cents, won’t even buy bubble gum anymore...

 

[Jim Oaks]

Here's a pic of the new piece going in the sewer line:

The guy that came this week wanted to know if I wanted to add a lift. I told him I just need a couple of feet to put my truck on jack stands.

I don't need no fancy wall plates.

I love old buildings. Always wanted to renovate one. Really don't want to tear down an old building to build a new one if I don't have to.

I think one of my biggest questions is how do I fix the walls in this building? How do I either raise them back up and close the gap, or keep it from moving any further?

 

[Rick W]

They’ve probably moved as far as they’re going to go. Might move a little during construction. Once everything is set, like I said, pressure wash, dry, and the structural caulk or epoxy. Then paint, trim.

once you seal them, only you will know where they are, nobody else will ever see them. If they still show, add a pin stripe. If you have a small low dent in the car door, you can spend a lot to fix it, or spend $5 to put a pinstripe above it. You’ll still see it, everyone else sees the pinstripe. As a poster or shelf with a complementing color, crack disappears.

I love old buildings. Always wanted to renovate one. Really don't want to tear down an old building to build a new one if I don't have to.

I know what you mean. I love giving old stuff new life. it’s probably not worth the effort to go down into the slab and level it and fill and square the walls. That’s probably $15-20,000 without the improvements! In my bump out design in the middle, I sketched some narrow faux columns to be covered with the same vinyl siding as house.

figure out what you want, repair the walls (minimum) and add the house vinyl soffits and some vertical accents, and it’ll look great. You’ll bring it back to life and have functionality, it’ll match the house and the whole place will look better.

if you figure out the overall best design for your uses, than what you have to fix or tear out and replace becomes obvious.

ok, my 3cents