Leak woes! Need help please!

[jrvmosjr]

Hello All,

I am new here, hoping to find some answers.

I have a 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 3.0 2wd auto.
Noticed some leaks from under the engine.

I could replace all the gaskets myself but just haven't had time so I had a shop by me do it.
Valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket, front crank seal, and rear main seal. Heck they even did the trans tail shaft and rear end cover and pinion gear.

Everything is holdin up except for the rear/oil pan. It is pissing like a scared pup, Rear main seal replaced twice, new oil pan/bolts and 2nd gasket installed.
Still leaks!!! Comes straight down the rear of the oil pan it seems. Oil sending and cam sensors on rear of block checked and replaced. Any ideas!!?? Thanks in advance!

 

[RonD]

Welcome to TRS

Rear Cam plug can leak
Picture here: https://www.motor.com/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2017-05-04-at-10.28.59-AM-2.png

You can also "sleeve" the crank's main seal surface if it has scratches
Comes in a kit with the sleeve and the larger seal
The seal then rides on the smooth sleeve surface and not on the scratched crank surface

 

[jrvmosjr]

Sorry left that out. A sleeve kit was put on. Not sure if they checked the cam plug. I'll check, thanks!

Tech keeps telling me its coming out of the oil pan. I told him check pcv and make sure it's not that forcing pressure/oil out.

 

[Rearanger]

Any ideas!!??

Take the shop to small claims court to get your money back. Small claims is easy and cheap, no lawyer required. Make sure you document evidence to present in court, pictures, paperwork etc.

 

[ericbphoto]

Take the shop to small claims court to get your money back. Small claims is easy and cheap, no lawyer required. Make sure you document evidence to present in court, pictures, paperwork etc.

That seems like a big jump in escalating this thing. First need to find out what's wrong and why. Then you can determine if the shop did something wrong. Then give them a chance to make things right. If all that fails, THEN you consider legal action.

 

[RonD]

An oil pan, like valve cover, leak would be drips no real flow like a main seal or cam seal that has oil pressure coming from the bearing just behind it

So the "It is pissing like a scared pup" description would indicate a pressure type leak, can't see a rear oil pan gasket leaking in that manner

Yes, PCV system helps prevent oil pan and valve cover gasket leaks by eliminating Blow-by pressure that might push extra oil out where gasket/seal is weak, but would still be a drip, not much flow

 

[jrvmosjr]

An oil pan, like valve cover, leak would be drips no real flow like a main seal or cam seal that has oil pressure coming from the bearing just behind it

So the "It is pissing like a scared pup" description would indicate a pressure type leak, can't see a rear oil pan gasket leaking in that manner

Yes, PCV system helps prevent oil pan and valve cover gasket leaks by eliminating Blow-by pressure that might push extra oil out where gasket/seal is weak, but would still be a drip, not much flow

Thanks for the info. Yeah one thing I forgot to mention. At idle it seems not to leak. When driving and under pressure, well the slow drip begins. Supposedly they put dye to see where the leak is coming from. But like you said. It seems more like that cam seal, rear main seal area.

 

[RonD]

General rule of thumb is 10psi oil pressure per 1,000RPM up to about 50psi

So at idle, 800rpm, expected pressure would be 8psi
And the main and cam seal is not direct oil passage pressure, its the volume of oil leaving the bearing next to it that makes it leak more
So less oil leaking at idle and more leaking at higher RPM(oil pressure) does point to a pressure leak

oil pan leak is splashed oil, oil level in the pan is well below any side gaskets or front or rear rubber gaskets
The connecting rods spray oil out, the bearings fling oil out, the valve train oil flows back down the oil drains in the head and runs down side of engine block passed the gaskets
So drips if there is a leak not flow
And shouldn't vary by RPMs

Valve covers can have a more steady leak on "V" engines at the lower rear area gaskets because oil pools there during engine operation
Engine is angled up slightly in the front and on a "V" engine the lower edge of valve cover is, of course, lower so oil from valve train pools there
So lower rear of valve covers are where most leaks occur, but anywhere on the lower edge is possible, and you SMELL those first, lol, as the oil burns on exhaust manifolds
And it CAN start a fire if left as is

 

[Rearanger]

Everything is holdin up except for the rear/oil pan. It is pissing like a scared pup, Rear main seal replaced twice, new oil pan/bolts and 2nd gasket installed. Still leaks!!!

Then you can determine if the shop did something wrong.

Yea, that's a competent shop. The OP has the legal right to go to another shop (does he really want to stick with this one?) and get this fixed right, AND sue for the money spent on the leaks not fixed. Looks like he's given them enough of a chance to make it right.

 

[RonD]

No, that wouldn't work

Unless the oil leak was from a part the other shop installed then the shop would not be on the hook for any repairs by another shop that fixed another leak point

If it is the cam cover that's leaking the oil, the shop that did the original work should "eat the labor cost" to get to that part
Then charge customer for the part and seal
And "eat the cost" of reassembly
Because they missed it last time transmission was off, and that's easy to do, rear main is the issue 99.99% of the time, so very rarely does a tech look "farther north" at the cam cover/rear seal

To get damages awarded from the court you have to try and mitigate(reduce) the cost of the damage first, which would be to allow the original shop to fix it first
If they refuse or simply can't find the issue/problem, then you can try another shop
But the "new" shop must give you a sworn affidavit that, in this case, the leak was from improperly installed parts, by the original shop and not a different leak point

 

[ericbphoto]

Anyone who has tried to trace down a persistent oil leak knows that it's not always an easy job and you don't always find and correct the leak on the first or second try. Should they have been more thorough in the first go-around? Yes. But until we know for sure what is leaking and why, we are all just guessing. Recommending that someone jump into litigation this fast based on guesses and hearsay is just plain reckless. Give the shop a fair chance at doing what's right. If they refuse, then maybe look into other options.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

I would just buy a leak detection kit and use an inspection mirror top off oil put a brick on throttle while in neutral/Park, to hold at say 4k rpm you could even put it on ramps so you can crawl underneath and get a good look,, there is only so many places for it to come from.

 

[Rearanger]

To get damages awarded from the court you have to try and mitigate(reduce) the cost of the damage first, which would be to allow the original shop to fix it first

It appears that the OP did allow the original shop ample opportunity to make good - "Still leaks!!!"

But the "new" shop must give you a sworn affidavit that, in this case, the leak was from improperly installed parts, by the original shop and not a different leak point

An affidavit should not be a problem as a short note on the repair receipt would suffice. What I find is most people are afraid to seek damages from small claims and just eat the shop's mistakes/incompetence. I've never lost a small claims case.

But there's little downside to small claims, other than about a $75 filing fee, unless the sued party counter sues, which I don't see as any possibility here.

 

[Angie]

I am not up on a 3. L engine, however I am trying to learn. something on this whole story isn't making sense. I tried to find an oiling diagram for this engine, however, can't figure out exactly what ford engine this is. there seems to be a few of them? or am I searching wrong.

From what I have read a PCV system/seal can only be replaced if the head(s) are off to do it proper? is this correct? and if so, then that doesn't jive with what seems to be going on here.

a steady stream of oil is oil under pressure, as mentioned above, a drip is a drip, and not a stream.

can anyone please link to the correct engine so we/I can follow the oil path internally and see where an oil pressure could be possibly from?

doing a rear seal job isn't an easy task at best of times, so for a shop to do one and cause more problems than fix doesn't sound correct. And even a front seal is no easy job. the labour alone to tear apart the engine to get to the seal(s) is a job within its self.

Cheers

 

[RonD]

Its a 3.0l Vulcan engine, designed and built by Ford, its a "one off", no earlier and no later versions
1986 to 2008

Didn't find any oil passage diagrams for the 3.0l Vulcan