Just curious

[bobbywalter]

I thought they all ran solids

you never know what you will see. or how it will do.

shannon campbell proved out the ifs and the capacities are enormous in regards to speed and terrain variation. then the rock bouncers started playing around....

kewl stuff.

 

[bobbywalter]

CRAWLfish Racing's new TTB Jeep

CRAWLfish Racing & driver Jason Davis are ready to bring 100% Coonass Octane in the new Dana 44 TTB Jeep Wrangler. The 2013 Central Series Trail class points champions & 2nd place national points will be racing in 4500 Pro Class in W.E.ROCK Events Dirt Riot this year. 100"W.B. Front: Dana 44...

www.race-dezert.com

i seen this thing in action and checked it out in the pits.... bad ass rig...and that was a long time ago. the shit now is off the charts. of course... finding limits.

2011 Campbell 5AZ, the first IFS to win the King of the Hammers - OFFROAD LIFESTYLE

Shannon Campbell is one of the most famous and best performing Ultra4 Racing drivers. Shannon won the King of the Hammers three times, 2008 - 2011 - 2017, and was the first to win the toughest one-day off-road race in the world with an IFS vehicle. I dusted off my article from February 2011 to...

www.offroadlifestyle.com

 

[rusty ol ranger]

CRAWLfish Racing's new TTB Jeep

CRAWLfish Racing & driver Jason Davis are ready to bring 100% Coonass Octane in the new Dana 44 TTB Jeep Wrangler. The 2013 Central Series Trail class points champions & 2nd place national points will be racing in 4500 Pro Class in W.E.ROCK Events Dirt Riot this year. 100"W.B. Front: Dana 44...

www.race-dezert.com

i seen this thing in action and checked it out in the pits.... bad ass rig...and that was a long time ago. the shit now is off the charts. of course... finding limits.

2011 Campbell 5AZ, the first IFS to win the King of the Hammers - OFFROAD LIFESTYLE

Shannon Campbell is one of the most famous and best performing Ultra4 Racing drivers. Shannon won the King of the Hammers three times, 2008 - 2011 - 2017, and was the first to win the toughest one-day off-road race in the world with an IFS vehicle. I dusted off my article from February 2011 to...

www.offroadlifestyle.com

The engineering in both of those rigs are beyond impressive.

I can see how IFS would be a benifit for what they run for sure.

 

[snoranger]

Not to change the subject but its kinda on the same track...

Wasnt there a guy here years and years ago attempting to make a fully independent suspension by using TTB on the rear?

I would of like to of seen how that turned out. Probably made some very odd handling dynamics

Gwaii

He had a TTB D44 rear axle in one of his Rangers. The only good pic I ever saw was just after he welded the back of the Sport Trac cab in so he had a roll down back window.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Gwaii

He had a TTB D44 rear axle in one of his Rangers. The only good pic I ever saw was just after he welded the back of the Sport Trac cab in so he had a roll down back window.

i knew i wasnt just thinking things lol

 

[stmitch]

Back to the original topic, the 5.0 swap is easiest with a 98+ torsion bar truck because the front end is the same as the Explorer from those years. So, a 5.0/AWD swap should be pretty much bolt in using factory parts. But the torsion bar trucks are harder to get low vs the coil spring trucks. You can flip keys, for a bit of drop, but for better results I'd be looking into deleting the torsion bars for coilovers to properly tune height/spring rates/shock valving.

 

[JoshT]

@JoshT I believe is building a 5.0 awd truck? I could just be suffering from fever induced delirium though

I can't say you aren't suffering from that, but you are remembering right. Bobby was right too. Both John (@lil_Blue_Ford) and I are working towards that goal.

Lowered 5.0 AWD is somewhat doable on a 98+ truck with the SLA suspension. The limitation we've got is available camber adjustment with stock control arms. John's truck as pictured is about as low as you can go in stock parts and still be alignable. I'm about the same, my cabler adjustment is maxed out and I still have about -2° camber. The caster is out about 4° on driver side and 2° on passenger, but no adjustment available without making camber worse. We need custom control arms to go lower, but no one is making them at current. I've been trying to get custom arms for almost 2 years.

It sounds like you are asking about a TTB though. You're really going to be limited with doing it on a TTB suspension. Those change camber a lot more as the beam moves through its arc. I think the biggest camber bushing is either 2 or 4 degrees and it may not be enough. Usually for a lift, an extended axle bracket is needed as well to align the suspension. You can't get/use a shorter axle pivot bracket because the frame is in the way. To overcome it you'd basically have to do the opposite of the normal cut and turn used for a lift. Someone considered trying this in the past (can't recall who) and I think consensus was the there would be extensive modifications needed to the axle housing (beams) for clearance if it were attempted.

There is also the issue of the axle shafts themselves. The TTB uses u-joints instead of CV axles. Seems there were some concerns about the long term viability of u-joints at the modified angles and full time power application. Also the SLA stuff was designed with the AWD and full time hub engagement in mind. The hubs and bearings of the earlier suspension weren't designed for it. The thought may be to leave the hubs unlocked, but that is allegedly problematic for life of the AWD transfer case. They say that if you run an AWD explorer without the front drive shaft it will burn up the transfer case and it will roll away with transmission. Unlocking the hubs would effectively be the same thing.

Lowering a TTB would have a fair share more issues and shortcomings than a 4x4 SLA suspension, and be a lot harder to correct. AWD just does not seem to be a good idea in a TTB if being operated on the street, whether lifted, stock, or lowered. Might survive off-road, but the AWD transfer case isn't a great option for that environment either.

 

[JoshT]

You can flip keys, for a bit of drop, but for better results I'd be looking into deleting the torsion bars for coilovers to properly tune height/spring rates/shock valving.

While I agree with the idea of deleting the t-bars in favor of coil overs that isn't even the first limitation. I put drop keys in mine, but had to crank them way back up to get close to decent camber (caster way off still).

First limitation in a torsion bar SLA is bump stops, they either need to be cut down or removed to have any travel. Next is the control arms are too short. As I mentioned above I'm sitting about like John is in those pics, and the best I can get is -2° camber with adjusters maxed out. I've got the biggest adjusters available installed. I'm still running about a 30" tire with 2-3" clearance if that tells you anything. I want to go lower and smaller, but not feasible until I can get arms to correct camber.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Yeah, I did he lowered 5.0 AWD on a 2000 Ranger, like @bobbywalter and @JoshT said.

Truck was a 2000 extended cab 4.0 automatic 4x4. I swapped the entire drivetrain from a 5.0 Explorer in, engine, transmission, AWD t-case, and both axles plus the traction bars. Shifted the passenger upper shock mount to back by the spare tire carrier, did the rear spring under axle, stuffed the limited slip with extra new clutches, and ran into a ton of different issues along the way.

Lets start with the rear…

Spring under was too much drop. When I tested it, the axle hit the bump stops before the frame came off the jackstands. Deep into frame notch territory. I made heavier leaf packs (new 1,750# springs may work, I was on a budget) and had to use a 2” shackle to get mostly out of frame notch territory. I still hammer the bump stops back there though. Used the Explorer spring plates and put both shocks rearward. Used the Explorer traction bars. I’m thinking when I have the money or something switching to air bumps instead of the factory rubber ones. My dual exhaust also ended up a little too close. That’s something I’ll have to massage some. Rear driveshaft ended up needing about an inch and a half cut out of it. Spring perches on the axle needed cut off and the axle clocked to get the pinion angle right then weld the perches back on. Rear shocks I was able to use 2wd Ranger shocks with the configuration that I went with.

Now, the front…

The torsion bars and keys are not the limit here. At least not initially. Bump stops are the first problem, I pulled mine until I could determine what I would need for bump stops. With the adjusters backed off on the keys, the upper arms become the next limit. Specifically the upper ball joint. Mine is maxxed. I haven’t even tried to get it aligned. I roughed it in but it’s still off. Plus the front still needs to come down another inch or so to be level. Lower balljoint might be the next limiting factor in the front. I’m starting to think that I may just have to try building a set of upper arms since nothing is available. I have a set of 07-11 torsion bar keys but haven’t tried putting them in because I already have a problem with getting the front lower. Shocks may be an issue when I get all of my current problems sorted, I don’t know yet.

Other notes…

My first 5.0 AWD swap was in dad’s 2000 Ranger. We just did engine/transmission/AWD t-case and left the rest stock. That was pretty simple not to lower it. He was pretty happy with it.

Both trucks got dual 2.5” exhaust with a Magnaflow crossover muffler, 18” version I believe. Mine has Torque Monster headers and high-flow cats and it’s a little on the loud side for a sleeper. A longer muffler would help tone that down. Dad’s wasn’t as loud because he still had stock manifolds and cats.

 

[JoshT]

@lil_Blue_Ford looking at his thread history, he may be trying to do this on a TTB (83-97 4x4) truck. As you know those are a whole different animal. His sig says a 91 that he's SASing and profile shows a 94 4x4. He mentions a 2003 in some posts, but it's apparently a 2wd being parted before getting crushed.

 

[JoshT]

Grabbed these shots of mine on the way home today.

Suspension... Angle and distance throws it off, bit I'm pretty sure I'm sitting about the same height in front as @lil_Blue_Ford. I hate squatted stance, level or traditional rake only for me, so I stopped on dropping the rear until I can get the front lower. I'm also holding off on the Explorer axle swap until I get the front lower, so rear is basically stock 2wd height. Interestingly that was my original goal for lowering a 4x4 Ranger, but I've since decided that a little lower would be better (maybe another 2-3"?).

Tires... IIRC he's running 31s. I'm on 255/70R16 which works out to be a 30. I've got 1" spacers installed on front and 1.5" spacers in the rear. At time of installation I was planning to be a little lower on 18" explorer wheels that needed the spacers, but I had to go back up to correct camber. Worked out good for test fitment since the stock wheels with spacers sit within about 1/4" of the aftermarket wheels I'm considering. That would be 17x9 or 18x9 with appropriate tire size. Also worked out well since these have a fair bit of tire life left unlike the Explorer wheels, so I can stand to wait a bit for more components to be available.

John, picture will be incoming on your thread where we were discussing this.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

@lil_Blue_Ford looking at his thread history, he may be trying to do this on a TTB (83-97 4x4) truck. As you know those are a whole different animal. His sig says a 91 that he's SASing and profile shows a 94 4x4. He mentions a 2003 in some posts, but it's apparently a 2wd being parted before getting crushed.

He did mention 98+ in one of his posts so I just ran with what I did

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Grabbed these shots of mine on the way home today.

View attachment 117329

View attachment 117330

Suspension... Angle and distance throws it off, bit I'm pretty sure I'm sitting about the same height in front as @lil_Blue_Ford. I hate squatted stance, level or traditional rake only for me, so I stopped on dropping the rear until I can get the front lower. I'm also holding off on the Explorer axle swap until I get the front lower, so rear is basically stock 2wd height. Interestingly that was my original goal for lowering a 4x4 Ranger, but I've since decided that a little lower would be better (maybe another 2-3"?).

Tires... IIRC he's running 31s. I'm on 255/70R16 which works out to be a 30. I've got 1" spacers installed on front and 1.5" spacers in the rear. At time of installation I was planning to be a little lower on 18" explorer wheels that needed the spacers, but I had to go back up to correct camber. Worked out good for test fitment since the stock wheels with spacers sit within about 1/4" of the aftermarket wheels I'm considering. That would be 17x9 or 18x9 with appropriate tire size. Also worked out well since these have a fair bit of tire life left unlike the Explorer wheels, so I can stand to wait a bit for more components to be available.

John, picture will be incoming on your thread where we were discussing this.

I have my torsion bar adjuster bolts backed out so far the keys are about touching the plates in the front and I still need another inch or so to be level.

The drop you get from going spring under axle is ridiculous.

I’m currently on 31x10.50-15. They rub like this. And they’re too big for 3.73 gears. And they’re squishy in cornering. I’m thinking a wide 29” tire on 18” Explorer rims would be about sweet. This thing is about ridiculous though, I railed around a bend with a 15mph sign tonight doing about 45 towing an empty tow dolly like it was nothing…

 

[JoshT]

I had to crank mine back up because I installed lowering keys. If I were still on stock keys I'd be in about the same position on the adjuster. No rubbing as it sits. I could go down more and drive it, but the camber would be terrible. Wouldn't be much problem to drop another 2-3" from that height with key adjustment left, but I'd be in the 4-6 degree range on camber and practically be sitting on top of the tire.

The drop you get from going spring under axle is ridiculous.

I know, that's why I didn't do it yet. When the time comes I'll be reinstalling Explorer springs and/or lift shackles to raise it back up some. IIRC you did the same or we had talked about the option.

You ain't wrong about the handling change either. Lower CG, combined with the upgraded anti-sway bars (explorer front, BII rear), and pulling at both ends definitely made a difference. As you said it's still on squishy 30" ATs. I drove it on 29s and 18s briefly while testing things after the engine rebuild and lowering. The right wheel/tire package is going to make even more difference.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I had to crank mine back up because I installed lowering keys. If I were still on stock keys I'd be in about the same position on the adjuster. No rubbing as it sits. I could go down more and drive it, but the camber would be terrible. Wouldn't be much problem to drop another 2-3" from that height with key adjustment left, but I'd be in the 4-6 degree range on camber and practically be sitting on top of the tire.



I know, that's why I didn't do it yet. When the time comes I'll be reinstalling Explorer springs and/or lift shackles to raise it back up some. IIRC you did the same or we had talked about the option.

You ain't wrong about the handling change either. Lower CG, combined with the upgraded anti-sway bars (explorer front, BII rear), and pulling at both ends definitely made a difference. As you said it's still on squishy 30" ATs. I drove it on 29s and 18s briefly while testing things after the engine rebuild and lowering. The right wheel/tire package is going to make even more difference.

I have some mystery rubbing in the front when I turn. I can hear it, but I can’t find it. Every time I’ve cut the wheels hard over and looked, there’s nothing in contact. My rear tires rub on the bed, specifically the plastic trim around the wheel arches. 29” tires and Explorer 18” rims should resolve that stuff I think.

I have 5-leaf packs made up from Explorer and Ranger packs plus the lift shackles and I’m still on the low side. Been thinking of asking the local spring shop about the possibility of custom packs. Or trying 1750# packs.

Handling is night and day. I forgot in my earlier post, but I have the Explorer sway bars front and rear. Plus the Explorer traction bars. You can literally tell that the tires are squishy in hard cornering. I’m currently on 31” tires because it’s what I had. Money hasn’t been there to do the tire and rim change yet but I’m looking forward to the change. It’s an animal already.