I think I broke it. Easy engine swaps?

[wolfe1ac]

Two weeks ago I had a no start, no spark issue. Running some tests I narrowed it down to the HEI control module (truck was converted to HEI before I bought it). After replacing that and the distributor cap & rotor, it still wouldn't start so I hooked up the tractor and had my dad pull me around to see if I could bump start it. It started up but would only stay running at high RPM in neutral. As soon as I backed off the gas or tried to let the clutch out, it would stall. I was thinking I got something wrong with the firing order when replacing the dizzy cap so I shifted all the wires one spot around the cap clockwise, and tried again. It appeared to turn over with a lot less effort but still no start. Tried pull starting it and if fired up but everything sounded wrong. Very low, almost non existent power, slight intermittent rattle noise, etc. I shut it down immediately and we towed it back to its parking spot. Yesterday I went out to check timing and the crankshaft wouldn't turn with a pry bar. Pulled attached the plugs and they were all fouled pretty bad. #4 was covered in oil. Hooked it back up to the tractor and tried to pull it while in gear and the rear end just drags. Seems like the engine is pretty well seized.

So now I'm wondering, what the hell did I do!? I was under the impression that to seize an engine you needed an immense amount of heat generated from friction. Oil level remains great with no appearance of contamination. Could I have buggered up a valve and gotten it wedged so badly that it's not able to move?

I paid $800 for the truck and I like it but I'm not willing to spend that same amount or more on a new engine. Is there a good source for a used 1986 2.0 OHC that would be a direct swap? Is there another year/series that wouldn't require much in the way of new parts? I know the words "cheap" and "easy" don't factor into the vocabulary of an engine swap but any ideas?

Thanks in advance. I'm going to go walk to the coffee shop.

 

[Mark_88]

Hard to say what might have caused the seize...could be it didn't get enough oil...or possible hydro lock...but if the rear end is dragging it could be either brakes seized or transmission is engaged and you should be able to get around that easy enough by using the clutch...unless your clutch is the problem.

Regardless...I'm sure you will try everything I can think of and more...

The short block 2.3 up to 93 can be used with a distributor and you can pop the head you have on them or get one if the valves are the problem. Should work but not familiar with the intake and exhaust on the 86...probably a direct bolt on but another thing you can figure out as you go...the heads will bolt onto the short block.

Also Mustang 2.3 heads will work if you need a head...everything else pretty much is bolt on with the 2.0 to 2.3 swap in the event that the engine is pooched though. Done it a few times myself and not much to it other than gathering up and matching the parts.

 

[mavereq]

I have never seen HEI on a 2.3. Got pics?

 

[tomw]

Diddling with the spark plugs or ignition timing will not, by any means I know, seize the engine.
Before condemning it, be sure to remove all the spark plugs, make sure the transmission is actually in neutral by rolling the truck back & forth a bit, and then try the bolt on the nose of the crankshaft, or the starter, to turn it over.
If it absolutely will not move, remove the cam cover, and make sure it is not jammed, or remove the timing belt, and check again. If the cam seized, or has a stuck valve, it may hold the crank from turning.
If finally you decide "It's dead, Jim.", then shop for a used engine you can plop in place. You have been given blocks that should be bolt-in replacements, and more information is available at the top of this sub-thread in the post about technical information.
You can readily go up to the 2300 and gain a few hp with no problem. The 2.0 might be harder to find than the 2.3 as it was used in fewer applications(Ranger only, I think). The 2.3 was used in Rangers, Pintos, Mustang II's, Bobcats, Mercurs, Turbo-T-birds, and likely more that escape my old mind. Theyz available for $300-up, complete. Craigslist.
tom

 

[RonD]

Welcome to TRS

You had a spun main bearing, from last time you drove it.
No spark was most likely because of the low voltage at the HEI module because starter motor was drawing too many amps try to turn the crank with spun bearing.

I assume you try to "bump start" it because starter motor seemed to be turning slowly.

When it did start you had the spark timing just fine, and the reason it only ran at higher RPM was because of the spun bearing putting drag on the crank, and bearing heated up very very fast.
When you let engine stall the last time and cool off the bearing seized/welded to the crank

Spun bearing doesn't seize the engine instantly, what happens is that the bearing moves slightly at first and that cuts off oil holes in block that feed the space between bearing and crank journal, so bearing starts to heat up, and bearings are softer metal so it slips a bit more, engine can continue to run as long as some oil is cooling the bearing, oils primary purpose is cooling, lubrication is secondary to cooling, as far as the bearings are concerned.
Once bearing has "spun" enough no oil gets in and the end it near, bearing supper heats in seconds and next time engine is shut off it will act like a weld between block and crank


Wouldn't be hydro-lock because crank would turn backwards, or valve issues for same reason.
Spun main prevents rotation in either direction
Not sure timing belt could hold crank from turning with seized cam or aux gear if "bump starting", maybe but long shot
Worth pulling off the timing belt to see

You couldn't have done anything differently, IMO the bearing was already gone before you did anything else.
Why the bearing started to spin could be from a past overheating issue or engine work, running engine low on oil in the past, manufacturing defect.....................??

The Lima engines, 2.0l/2.3l/2.5L are for the most part interchangeable.
1994 and earlier and 1995 and up are not because of crank sensors
And pre-1993 had distributor hole and gear

So yes the 2.0l Lima can be swapped into your 1986

 

[wolfe1ac]

Crisis averted!

She lives! I was really bummed today and was talking things over with a friend that has more wrenching experience than I have. He said it seemed really odd that it would be seized after the sequence of events I described. He talked me into pulling it behind a pickup and popping the clutch on 3rd gear (I had previously only bump started in 1st). Same scenario as before where it would run but only at higher RPMs. He made a few phone calls to various people and we came to the conclusion that the timing was off somehow. We loosened the adjustment bolt by the distributor and rotated it about 10 degrees clockwise and it started up on its own power, still running rough. Turned it a bit more and it seems like it is running well enough to be drivable now. Still no explanation for the seize symptoms and the inability to crank it with a prybar (even with the plugs out).

This week I'm going to try and track down a timing light and get everything as precise as possible with the timing. Any tips for this? I still can't explain why or how the distributor would have shifted but I'm still going to chalk it up as a win. Any thoughts on the mechanism behind this?

 

[Mark_88]

Good to know...that's the only thing I've never done and very rarely hear of on these engines...I've even driven one in -35 weather low on oil and it never seized...until the next day or so but even then it wasn't actually seized...it just didn't want to run any more.

 

[tomw]

For those who try to 'bump start':

Use 4th gear. When you use 1-2-3, you are trying to turn the crankshaft 'more' than the driveshaft is turning. It is easier for the driveshaft to turn the crankshaft when they are 1:1. The engine turns a lot more in 1-2-3 than the driveshaft does, to get more torque at higher rpms. The opposite is true for the driveshaft turning the crankshaft.
Use 4th or any other direct drive. You'll save your transmission(straight through transfer of torque), and it will work better.
tom

 

[RonD]

Glad to read it is "un-seized", but a little leery with no cause for the seizing.

You "bump" start in 1st simply to give you faster crank speed at slower MPH, faster crank speed = higher compression = quicker start for cold engine.
"Bump" start is drivers door open, YOU are pushing the truck, once it gets rolling you jump in put it in 1st and pop the clutch.
Using 4th probably wouldn't get enough crank speed unless you were going downhill

"Pull" starting, you could get MPH up enough to used higher gears to get high enough crank speed

 

[Mark_88]

I've always used first gear...mostly because when you push a vehicle to bump start it there often isn't a hill or any other means of increasing speed enough to use a higher gear.

 

[tomw]

Well, we each have our own theory in this case. Cranking rpm does not matter to me as if you have fuel-air-spark and it's compressed, it will fire off. You don't think that hand pull-started engines are turning that fast... and they start all the time.
I suggest 4th or direct because you have reported wheel spin or slip. In a direct drive, the wheels have it easier to make the engine crank. In that case, direct is the way to go IMO.
Do your own thing. I do.
tom

 

[Mark_88]

True tom...I was taught by my Dad about 45 years ago to use first gear at the lower speeds and that information never failed to get me going.

Unless I was at or close to highway speed when using a lower gear would result in a bit more noise and jolting than usual... I would use the next highest gear for the road speed...and it always worked without any major repairs needed to undo damage. I do recall having to dump the clutch quite a few times on various vehicles when they stalled for one reason or another.

 

[bobbywalter]

Well, we each have our own theory in this case. Cranking rpm does not matter to me as if you have fuel-air-spark and it's compressed, it will fire off. You don't think that hand pull-started engines are turning that fast... and they start all the time.
I suggest 4th or direct because you have reported wheel spin or slip. In a direct drive, the wheels have it easier to make the engine crank. In that case, direct is the way to go IMO.
Do your own thing. I do.
tom

theory? not so simple in that respect.

this is one of those cases where it is math. on a steep hill most vehicles will roll down the hill if left in 4th or 5th gear. sure, thats with a brokin in clutch and it is what parking brakes were invented for, but its like that....

is it harder on the clutch to start out from a dead stop in 4th or 2nd?


i use 2nd or reverse if i am having to go backwards to bump it. the mechanical advantage is easier on the pp and friction and there is definitely a minimum cranking speed on many engines where 1st or second matches up especially with a depleted battery, the faster it is turning the quicker the alternator makes juice.

reverse is usually lower then 1st gear and most people use 1st because it works fine.

but direct power through the trans in 1 to 1 whatever that gear is...3, 4 or 5 has merit.



but to be fair. i am a transmission serial killer.

 

[tomw]

Using the lower gears reverses the effect when driving the crankshaft. It is harder for the wheels/driveshaft/clutch/pressure plate to turn the crankshaft in the lower numbered gears(1,2,3) than it is in direct. The lower gears provide mechanical advantage to turn the driveshaft. The advantage is reversed when thy are driven by the driveshaft. That is why parking in 1st or reverse will hold better than leaving the gears in direct. The driveshaft loses mechanical advantage, and cannot turn the crankshaft. (well, it can, slowly, and you can watch the 'cylinders' go through compression if you happen to be on the front porch watching your truck roll away) Chug-chug-chug...
tom