• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

I give up.


rusty ol ranger

Im a Jeep guy now.
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
7,278
Points
113
Location
Michigan
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.9 V6
Engine Size
177 CID
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
My credo
A legend to the old man, a hero to the child...
Fixed the O2 sensor wire, put everything back togther. Ran good for a bit then right back to the same ol issues.

Stalling/flooding on deceleration....code 41. Didnt run it far enough for it to start acting up while driving, but no doubt it would still do it. Fixing that wire made 0 difference.

Im going to warrenty the O2 sensor monday and try that. I cant find any vaccuum leaks, vaccuum test is good, fuel pressure is good. I did not get an O2 code with the factory O2, i do with this new one. Gonna try that. If it aint that, i hate to say i may have to give up on rusty 2.0. Im at my farking wits end with it.

Ill also change the neg battery cable thats bad, in a longshot attempt.
 
Last edited:


Paulos

Active Member
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
479
Reaction score
210
Points
43
Location
North Carolina
Vehicle Year
1987 STX
Make / Model
Ranger
Engine Type
2.9 V6
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
How do your plugs look? Do they all look normal, or do you have some that are black (running rich) and some that aren't (running lean)?
 

07nhbpsi

Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
122
Reaction score
17
Points
18
Location
Monroe mi
Vehicle Year
2010
Make / Model
ford
Engine Size
4.0
Transmission
Manual
Fixed the O2 sensor wire, put everything back togther. Ran good for a bit then right back to the same ol issues.

Stalling/flooding on deceleration....code 41. Didnt run it far enough for it to start acting up while driving, but no doubt it would still do it. Fixing that wire made 0 difference.

Im going to warrenty the O2 sensor monday and try that. I cant find any vaccuum leaks, vaccuum test is good, fuel pressure is good. I did not get an O2 code with the factory O2, i do with this new one. Gonna try that. If it aint that, i hate to say i may have to give up on rusty 2.0. Im at my farking wits end with it.

Ill also change the neg battery cable thats bad, in a longshot attempt.
Code 41 isn’t that a code for an ignition problem? I seem to remember that one ....
 

Michael88STX

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Messages
26
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Vehicle Year
1988
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
2.9
Transmission
Manual
Check for exhaust leaks before the o2 sensor(s). Are you having any backfiring?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

rusty ol ranger

Im a Jeep guy now.
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
7,278
Points
113
Location
Michigan
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.9 V6
Engine Size
177 CID
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
My credo
A legend to the old man, a hero to the child...
How do your plugs look? Do they all look normal, or do you have some that are black (running rich) and some that aren't (running lean)?

Havent pulled them. But i changed them when all this started and none looked goofy.

Code 41 isn’t that a code for an ignition problem? I seem to remember that one ....
No, its a lean O2 code...

Check for exhaust leaks before the o2 sensor(s). Are you having any backfiring
It does have some tiny ones before the sensor, but ive had ones much worse then that and not have issue. I do have a big one right before the cat but its after the sensor. No actual back fireing, just pops from hot fuel hitting the cat.

One little tidbit i forgot to add. Was after i got it running yesterday i was useing it to jump my dads old town and country, as he was cranking it the "emiss" light lit up on the warning cluster. I have never seen it come on before unless when you start it. It stayed lit for about 30 seconds after he cranked the van, but came on again when he cranked it (with the jumpers still hooked to the ranger, obviously).
 
Last edited:

Pauls 4x4

Member
ASE Certified Tech
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
106
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
Colton, CA
Vehicle Year
1991
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
2.9
Transmission
Automatic
Your getting a lean code means the engine is dumping in fuel. (Its counter intuitive rich means it runs lean/ lean means it runs rich)

Thats why your getting bogged. Thats how the ECU in old cars correct.

I doubt you have any 02 issue... But you can check the 02 actual voltage signal at the ecu/ reference voltage. That wire is kinda precariously placed. You may have made a bad connection worse changing it.

Always assume new works generally.

Now for the tisk tisk.

You shotgunned a part... Any time it doesnt 100% fix it... Tis the shotgun.

Look for any run rich cause: exhaust leaks (Especially if you get a pop in the exhaust. The manifold to y pipe junction is janky.) That sounds like the winner IMHO, vacuum issues you checked, what's the MAP sensor reference, IAC clean?

Remeber you are Rich because you are electronically coming up Lean. So something seeing it is starving for gas or making the 02 not see anything burning. If the fuel pressure is good and the vacuum is good than its a management sensor or exhaust issue.

A leak before the 02 will make it read lean and it dumps gas to fix it.
 

rusty ol ranger

Im a Jeep guy now.
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
7,278
Points
113
Location
Michigan
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.9 V6
Engine Size
177 CID
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
My credo
A legend to the old man, a hero to the child...
Your getting a lean code means the engine is dumping in fuel. (Its counter intuitive rich means it runs lean/ lean means it runs rich)

Thats why your getting bogged. Thats how the ECU in old cars correct.

I doubt you have any 02 issue... But you can check the 02 actual voltage signal at the ecu/ reference voltage. That wire is kinda precariously placed. You may have made a bad connection worse changing it.

Always assume new works generally.

Now for the tisk tisk.

You shotgunned a part... Any time it doesnt 100% fix it... Tis the shotgun.

Look for any run rich cause: exhaust leaks (Especially if you get a pop in the exhaust. The manifold to y pipe junction is janky.) That sounds like the winner IMHO, vacuum issues you checked, what's the MAP sensor reference, IAC clean?

Remeber you are Rich because you are electronically coming up Lean. So something seeing it is starving for gas or making the 02 not see anything burning. If the fuel pressure is good and the vacuum is good than its a management sensor or exhaust issue.

A leak before the 02 will make it read lean and it dumps gas to fix it.
The donut flanges seem sealed well. I dont hear any of the ticking that normally goes on with those. The exhaust itself is in good shape except for the y pipe to cat connection where the gasket its about 75% gone. But thats after (athough very close) to the O2.

As far as MAP goes, i dont recall actually checking it, however i swapped it with a known good one, and it made no difference. If i unplug it the truck stalls.

The IAC is fine.

Could it actually be lean due to a fueling issue? As in its dropping pressure for some reason? I cant check it in real time when it acts up. Like maybe the intank pump is getting hot and slowing down?

But it acts rich as hell. Except the plugs look good.
 

adsm08

Senior Master Grease Monkey
Supporting Member
Article Contributor
Ford Technician
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
34,623
Reaction score
3,613
Points
113
Location
Dillsburg PA
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
31X10.50X15
Could it actually be lean due to a fueling issue? As in its dropping pressure for some reason? I cant check it in real time when it acts up. Like maybe the intank pump is getting hot and slowing down?

But it acts rich as hell.
As Paul touched on, a lean code means that it has added a whole bunch of fuel to the mix trying to richen it up, has hit the limit of how much it's allowed to add, and still hasn't seen the oxygen content in the exhaust gas drop to the point that says the mix is balanced. So it would make sense that it ACTS rich, if one of two things is happening

1) The O2 sensor signal isn't making it to the computer

2) Fresh oxygen is getting to the sensor.

Now for the kicker. Because incomplete combustion leaves a bunch of free molecular oxygen in the mix, and oxygen sensors only see oxygen, not hydrocarbon, an oxygen sensor can't tell the difference between a misfire/incomplete fire and not enough fuel in the mix.

Next test I think I would do is pretty fun. Start the engine, let it idle for a few minutes, and then, while touching the body, touch each spark plug wire, one by one.


Uh, you don't have a heart condition or a pacemaker do you?
 

rusty ol ranger

Im a Jeep guy now.
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
7,278
Points
113
Location
Michigan
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.9 V6
Engine Size
177 CID
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
My credo
A legend to the old man, a hero to the child...
Nice try. I got a big pair of rubber gloves for that shit these days. My 460 zapped me good a while back and i lost a brand new plug wire in the fan.

Thats what im not getting though. When i drove it to the house and then the other day i ran it a while and had zero issues with it.

Run like a champ, all kinds of power, i hit 2nd at like 35 and coasted all the way down to about 10mph, pushed the clutch down, no popping or stalling...

Its so damn puzzleing.
 

adsm08

Senior Master Grease Monkey
Supporting Member
Article Contributor
Ford Technician
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
34,623
Reaction score
3,613
Points
113
Location
Dillsburg PA
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
31X10.50X15
Yeah, if you do it wearing those gloves you won't get zapped, and you won't find the leaking plug wire.
 

rusty ol ranger

Im a Jeep guy now.
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
7,278
Points
113
Location
Michigan
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.9 V6
Engine Size
177 CID
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
My credo
A legend to the old man, a hero to the child...
Yeah, if you do it wearing those gloves you won't get zapped, and you won't find the leaking plug wire.
Thats why you listen for change in motor rythm.

Plus they better be good yet, i bought the best cheapo rock auto close out wires i could find.

It does seem to misfire at idle.
 

Uncle Gump

Token Old Guy
TRS Event Staff
TRS Forum Moderator
Supporting Member
VAGABOND
TRS Event Participant
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
13,166
Points
113
Location
Ottawa IL
Vehicle Year
2006/1986
Make / Model
Ranger/BroncoII
Engine Size
4.0L SOHC/2.9L
2WD / 4WD
4WD
My credo
Lead follow or get out of my way
Rusty... I've never wanted anyone to have that... "Ah Ha!!!" moment more then I do you with this issue.

Yet this saga continues...

Misfire? Not good. Exhaust Leaks anywhere near the O2? Again not good.

I want you to try something... On a cold engine... just unplug the O2 sensor... and clear all codes. By doing this... we can expect that ECM has no stored codes and the engine will never go into closed loop operation. Now start it up and go for a ride until the engine has reached full operating temperature. The engine will run on a predetermined set of calibrations cold and when it reaches temp and tries to close the loop the ECM won't see the O2 sensor and set a code. The ECM then should run another set of predetermined calibrations that allows you to continue to operate the vehicle... but with perhaps slightly less performance and fuel economy. Pay close attention to the symptoms you experience on this ride... what I'm looking for is a change in the symptoms you have with the O2 sensor in the loop. Take it back home... pull and document the codes... let it cool... plug the O2 sensor back in... repeat the above. Then let us know exactly what you find with codes and symptoms in each scenario.
 

rusty ol ranger

Im a Jeep guy now.
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
7,278
Points
113
Location
Michigan
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.9 V6
Engine Size
177 CID
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
My credo
A legend to the old man, a hero to the child...
Seems like i tried that with the old O2. Cant remember though. Next week im gonna get back to it, so ill try that again. But like i said, it seems to be an intermettiant problem.

When i drove it everyday it would start acting up from about 6 miles down the road.

I parked it for about a month then drove it about 10 miles to the old house with no issues.

It sat all winter till about 3 weeks ago, once again ran it (pretty hard actually) and let it idle alot. Total run time was 60-90 minutes. No issues.

So either its an electrical issue or its only happening after a few miles at a steady 55-60 mph cruise.


Either way. Ill unplug that like you said and try driving the thing again. See what happens i suppose.

It does only happen though after hitting temp, which is why i suspect its O2 related. Cold it never has an issue.

As far as misfire, im not 100% sure. Theres no rythm to it and its only at idle. Rusty #1 always had a shaky kinda idle to.
 
Last edited:

adsm08

Senior Master Grease Monkey
Supporting Member
Article Contributor
Ford Technician
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
34,623
Reaction score
3,613
Points
113
Location
Dillsburg PA
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
31X10.50X15
Thats why you listen for change in motor rythm.
A leaking wire won't always show at idle. As they move with road vibrations they can get close enough to the block that arcing to the block is less resistance than going through the plug.

If you really don't want to get zapped hook a test jumper to a screw driver and the body and wave that around the wires at night. That will let you see the arc instead of feel it.
 

adsm08

Senior Master Grease Monkey
Supporting Member
Article Contributor
Ford Technician
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
34,623
Reaction score
3,613
Points
113
Location
Dillsburg PA
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
31X10.50X15
It does only happen though after hitting temp, which is why i suspect its O2 related. Cold it never has an issue.

As far as misfire, im not 100% sure. Theres no rythm to it and its only at idle. Rusty #1 always had a shaky kinda idle to.
Take the IAT sensor out and see how gummed up it is. And be careful with it, I've broken one off in the intake before. It was not fun getting it out.
 

Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Staff online

Today's birthdays

Member & Vendor Upgrades

For a small yearly donation, you can support this forum and receive a 'Supporting Member' banner, or become a 'Supporting Vendor' and promote your products here. Click the banner to find out how.

Truck of The Month


Kirby N.
March Truck of The Month

Recently Featured

Want to see your truck here? Share your photos and details in the forum.

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Events

25th Anniversary Sponsors

Check Out The TRS Store


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad


Amazon Deals

Top