Hydrogen??

[superdave1984]

The problem in your logic lies in the fact that while you may have gotten more miles per gallon of GASOLINE, you still used a bunch of hydrogen. And I don't know how much hydrogen costs, but I am betting you did not come out financially ahead. on your experiment.

 

[MAKG]

It also burns hotter (which is WHY it affects gasoline consumption), so if the exhaust smells like coolant, it might really have coolant in it...let's hope not.

I suspect it may increase NOx emissions.

 

[68fbjjz109]

It cost 13 dollars to get the hydrogen filled, 40 total to rent the tank, it lasted about a week. So it did offset my costs when driving my ranger, and my buddies F -250, and again this was a very hasty and crude method to inject it into the motor. A nitrious type injection system would suit it better I believe. That coupled with tunning the motor to take further advantage of the hydrogen would yield more impressive results in regards to themileage and theefficent use of the hydrogen. Once I come back from Iraq my buddy and I will persue this further.

Yes depending on certain factor hydrogen can increase emissions, here is a good article which can explain much better then i can.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf

Its about running either blends or pure hydrogen in a regular internal combust engine, the pro and cons, and how to over come them.

My goal is to running my vehicles either on or supplemented with hydrogen for the emissions factor. With the possibility of building a fill station at our garage so we cam make hydrogen as efficentlty as possible. I feel my Turbo Mustang and next project ranger will make ideal platforms. My goal is to have both my 550rwhp Mustang, and Lifted Desiel ranger that get respectable mileage with little to no emissions. I feel this is not only responsible thing to do, given the slightly excessive but very capable nature of the vehicles. In addition i feel the projects will have a pretty high cool factor as well.

Fortunately for me the motor didn't and doesnt not burn coolant, 195,000 miles and still going.

 

[MAKG]

You are BURNING hydrogen. That is not a fuel cell. A hydrogen fuel cell is a rechargeable battery.

 

[anupaum]

I've been very reluctant to join this conversation because it seems like both sides essentially have their minds made up about the issue. I USED TO BE a hydrogen enthusiast, and for many years I was a member of the American Hydrogen Association.

Internal combustion engines CAN be made to run on hydrogen. A number of people have done so, but this shouldn't be surprising. Internal combustion engines can run on a wide variety of fuels, but calling hydrogen a fuel isn't entirely accurate. It's better described as an energy carrier because we have no terrestrial source of free hydrogen to use. The vast majority of industrial hydrogen comes from natural gas.

As a member of the AHA, I've actually seen RUNNING vehicles that burn hydrogen. In general, one kilogram of hydrogen worked out to about the same fuel economy as a gallon of gasoline. This shouldn't be surprising because the energy is about the same for both using those measurements.

Hy-boost, injecting a small amount of hydrogen into a gasoline engine (less than 5% by weight), CAN result in a 5 - 10% increase in fuel economy in certain situations. (Please note the caveat.) Most of the research done on hy-boost occurred prior to the 1980's, BEFORE EFI was common. Computerized fuel injection has taken much of the hy-boost advantage away.

So I'm skeptical of any claim that hy-boost will radically increase the fuel economy of a modern, computer-controlled engine. But there's a part of me that would like to try it out, just for the sake of my own curiosity. I've built several electrolyzers, so it would be well within my capability to do so.

Trouble is, though, I don't have a lot of room left under the hood of my truck . . .

 

[beyonder]

Though what interests me the most is my buddies 4.0 explorer ran (rough) and drove on just hydrogen

This is caused by your O2 sensor. It is giving an incorrect reading. You need to install a bypass module to correct the reading ( simular to runing E85 in a non flex fuel vehicle ).
Run it to long like this and the vehicle will go into limp mode ( happened on 7 out of 10 vehicles we tested when working with hydrogen )

My goal is to running my vehicles either on or supplemented with hydrogen for the emissions factor. With the possibility of building a fill station at our garage so we cam make hydrogen as efficentlty as possible. I feel my Turbo Mustang and next project ranger will make ideal platforms. My goal is to have both my 550rwhp Mustang, and Lifted Desiel ranger that get respectable mileage with little to no emissions. I feel this is not only responsible thing to do, given the slightly excessive but very capable nature of the vehicles. In addition i feel the projects will have a pretty high cool factor as well.

Well...when you blow yourself into orbit you'll be very "cool"...
Not to rain on your parade, but I don't think you've done your research. Depending on the cost of electricity where you live production of the hydrogen to the cost of gas factor is almost identical.
Secondly, good luck on getting a permit to store hydrogen. There is a reason fuel cell vehicles are not taking over the roads today, simply because "SAFE" storage for the hydrogen has not been developed. I don't know about the states, however here in Canada production of hydrogen in large quantities is illegal and hands you a nice fine and jail term.
Do you know how you plan to make it? Algae...cow shit....etc? Again, both need permits and are strictly governed.

Simpler yet...build a still and make eth, put a conversion kit in to make your non flex-fuel vehicle flex fuel ( or reprogram the computer to do so ) and you'll save. For your diesel...go to your favorite fast food restaurant and get all the used oil you can ( most will give it to you for free as they pay to have it hauled away ) and convert it to biodiesel. Leave the hydrogen to the people who know what there doing and have the facilities to work with it safely.

 

[beyonder]

I've been very reluctant to join this conversation because it seems like both sides essentially have their minds made up about the issue. I USED TO BE a hydrogen enthusiast, and for many years I was a member of the American Hydrogen Association.

Internal combustion engines CAN be made to run on hydrogen. A number of people have done so, but this shouldn't be surprising. Internal combustion engines can run on a wide variety of fuels, but calling hydrogen a fuel isn't entirely accurate. It's better described as an energy carrier because we have no terrestrial source of free hydrogen to use. The vast majority of industrial hydrogen comes from natural gas.

As a member of the AHA, I've actually seen RUNNING vehicles that burn hydrogen. In general, one kilogram of hydrogen worked out to about the same fuel economy as a gallon of gasoline. This shouldn't be surprising because the energy is about the same for both using those measurements.

Hy-boost, injecting a small amount of hydrogen into a gasoline engine (less than 5% by weight), CAN result in a 5 - 10% increase in fuel economy in certain situations. (Please note the caveat.) Most of the research done on hy-boost occurred prior to the 1980's, BEFORE EFI was common. Computerized fuel injection has taken much of the hy-boost advantage away.

So I'm skeptical of any claim that hy-boost will radically increase the fuel economy of a modern, computer-controlled engine. But there's a part of me that would like to try it out, just for the sake of my own curiosity. I've built several electrolyzers, so it would be well within my capability to do so.

Trouble is, though, I don't have a lot of room left under the hood of my truck . . .

You'd be better to convert your truck to flex fuel and make your own ethanol. Safer, and easier to get through the red tape ( here in canada at least )

 

[anupaum]

You'd be better to convert your truck to flex fuel and make your own ethanol. Safer, and easier to get through the red tape ( here in canada at least )

Individuals can't distill their own ethanol in Canada. The law doesn't even contemplate this, and when I looked into getting a permit for a distillation device, the provincial authorities kept giving me the run around. Eventually, I was told: "No, you can't do this."

 

[beyonder]

Individuals can't distill their own ethanol in Canada. The law doesn't even contemplate this, and when I looked into getting a permit for a distillation device, the provincial authorities kept giving me the run around. Eventually, I was told: "No, you can't do this."

What province are you from? Its 75.00 here in BC. You need a microbrewery permit I believe its called ( that's what I was told anyways when i looked into it ..that goes back about 6 yrs tho).
however permit or no permit, the equipment and books are sold in stores. Process is similar,etc Just don't tell them your making ethanol, lol.
You could always convert to methane, find a farmer who's willing to part with his cow shit and build yourself a digester and away you go...( a little more complex but you get the idea )....Incidently you can extract hydrogen from this to...( I'm not suggesting you attempt it however ).

 

[anupaum]

What province are you from? Its 75.00 here in BC. You need a microbrewery permit I believe its called ( that's what I was told anyways when i looked into it ..that goes back about 6 yrs tho).
however permit or no permit, the equipment and books are sold in stores. Process is similar,etc Just don't tell them your making ethanol, lol.
You could always convert to methane, find a farmer who's willing to part with his cow shit and build yourself a digester and away you go...( a little more complex but you get the idea )....Incidently you can extract hydrogen from this to...( I'm not suggesting you attempt it however ).

You can ferment, but you CANNOT distill. If you get caught, the government has the right to confiscate your property--which means if you do it at home, you can lose your house.

I'm a guest in this country. I have no intention of running afoul of the law.

Methane is a pain . . . It's bulky, fickle, and unless you've got fields to spread the slurry over, you'll wind up with a HUGE waste disposal problem.

 

[bobbywalter]

It cost 13 dollars to get the hydrogen filled, 40 total to rent the tank, it lasted about a week. So it did offset my costs when driving my ranger, and my buddies F -250, and again this was a very hasty and crude method to inject it into the motor. A nitrious type injection system would suit it better I believe. That coupled with tunning the motor to take further advantage of the hydrogen would yield more impressive results in regards to themileage and theefficent use of the hydrogen. Once I come back from Iraq my buddy and I will persue this further.

Yes depending on certain factor hydrogen can increase emissions, here is a good article which can explain much better then i can.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf

Its about running either blends or pure hydrogen in a regular internal combust engine, the pro and cons, and how to over come them.

My goal is to running my vehicles either on or supplemented with hydrogen for the emissions factor. With the possibility of building a fill station at our garage so we cam make hydrogen as efficentlty as possible. I feel my Turbo Mustang and next project ranger will make ideal platforms. My goal is to have both my 550rwhp Mustang, and Lifted Desiel ranger that get respectable mileage with little to no emissions. I feel this is not only responsible thing to do, given the slightly excessive but very capable nature of the vehicles. In addition i feel the projects will have a pretty high cool factor as well.

Fortunately for me the motor didn't and doesnt not burn coolant, 195,000 miles and still going.

hydride storage is key. the trade off is cost and weight. to run my escort on hydrogen i will expect engine life to max around 30-60k and just myself be able to ride in it with the 800 pounds of shit i will have to run it on just hydro for 400 miles.

i still cant afford it at this time...or i would have been using it already for the last 7 years. the tranfer efficiency is still pretty bad but doable. 4000 watts of solar panels and 2 tons of hydride would give a guy a good supply of hydrogen that would allow 2-400 miles a day..


till you price it.


one of the reasons i installed a diesel in my ranger is in hoping to get a better reaction out of some sort of hho device. i dont think of them as adding energy as much as causing a different reaction in the combustion events. i been screwing around with them for years and have not seen any real merit in them on the gassers.

using a non dot bottle hydrogen in a tank (which is illegal to have as a open fuel source in a motor vehicle last i knew) works pretty good with proper tuning, but you lose effeciency especially when tuning the nox out, that is why its nice to go with a turbo...especially with a turbo diesel

 

[BEEFKING69]

Thantil dont worry bout people like that man they just think they know but really they dont i also thought it was bs when i first saw and ad for water 4 gas but then i started researching it and then i built my own hho gen. i have a 95 F-150 with 266000 miles on it and it was only getting 10 MPG at 65 with 31-10.5's on it but after building a hho gen and getting it setup right i avg 25 and it has got 30 a few times so to hell with the people who think they know but really dont know what works and what dont. if i make anybody mad 2 bad im tired of idiots saying that home made hho gens dont work but i will agree that 99% of the gens on ebay are complete trash and scams cause u cand build them urself for half the price if not cheaper. also older cars and truck see more gains beccause they dont have a ton of computer bullshit. so unless u build one urself and a good one at that dont say it dont work cause u make urself look so stupid

 

[fastpakr]

Thantil dont worry bout people like that man they just think they know but really they dont i also thought it was bs when i first saw and ad for water 4 gas but then i started researching it and then i built my own hho gen. i have a 95 F-150 with 266000 miles on it and it was only getting 10 MPG at 65 with 31-10.5's on it but after building a hho gen and getting it setup right i avg 25 and it has got 30 a few times so to hell with the people who think they know but really dont know what works and what dont. if i make anybody mad 2 bad im tired of idiots saying that home made hho gens dont work but i will agree that 99% of the gens on ebay are complete trash and scams cause u cand build them urself for half the price if not cheaper. also older cars and truck see more gains beccause they dont have a ton of computer bullshit. so unless u build one urself and a good one at that dont say it dont work cause u make urself look so stupid

 

[Beanmachine7000]

Thantil dont worry bout people like that man they just think they know but really they dont i also thought it was bs when i first saw and ad for water 4 gas but then i started researching it and then i built my own hho gen. i have a 95 F-150 with 266000 miles on it and it was only getting 10 MPG at 65 with 31-10.5's on it but after building a hho gen and getting it setup right i avg 25 and it has got 30 a few times so to hell with the people who think they know but really dont know what works and what dont. if i make anybody mad 2 bad im tired of idiots saying that home made hho gens dont work but i will agree that 99% of the gens on ebay are complete trash and scams cause u cand build them urself for half the price if not cheaper. also older cars and truck see more gains beccause they dont have a ton of computer bullshit. so unless u build one urself and a good one at that dont say it dont work cause u make urself look so stupid

Seriously? Come on guys, it's been proven a million and one times they don't work... There was even a guy that did the stoichiometry on it... If your thing works you need to let someone know, because that's Nobel Prize stuff right there, I mean, you just broke the Laws of Thermodynamics (which is impossible)

 

[BEEFKING69]

thats the thing its not breaking any laws because im not running the truck on hho it just helps the gas burn more complete which is what causes the better milage and of course the results vary from person to person so like i said unless u try it urself dont say it dont work. here is a video of a guys machine that truly breaks what yall call laws but he clearly explains how it works http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1610087835473512086&hl=en