Hybrid + CVT transmissions

[Brain75]

So the better half managed to overheat her civic, it looked ok and made it 3 more years before really going through coolant... closer inspection the block is cracked right next to a freeze plug. She bought it new in 2006 and got 18 years out of it, but it still had lots of lots of miles possible... kinda a heartbreak to see a 1/2 million mile capable vehicle die at 180k 146K.


Anyhow, she really wants a hybrid AND she has heard horror stories about CVT's and really really wants to avoid a CVT. Turns out hybrids just about dang near ALL have CVT's.

I managed to find 3 or 4 choices that don't have CVT's - hyundai ionique (has an AM6, 6 speed auto), and the newer Toyota prius (after 2016, they have an "eCVT" which is planetary gears and the electric motors, MG1 + MG2, are inside the trans) - not really a CVT like any other CVT but technically it is continuously variable and Toyota just really screwed up marketing wise calling it eCVT instead of something like 'indirect electric drive' or something to distance themselves from CVT's.

I know there is gonna be a pretty fair amount of hate considering the crowd I am in - hey I am a fan of the Ranger too, so don't think I am not on the same page.

Anyone know enough of any hybrids, "traditional" or "plug in" (we are talking 40+MPG vehicles with very limited 30-75 battery range, not 200 mile battery range vehicles with a $15k battery pack) to offer some feedback.
Cost to replace one of those "smaller" battery packs?
Cost to replace one of those eCVT's? (apparently Toyota does not have a service manual, diagnostic or anything - it is a "return to dealer" kinda like Tesla's gestapo).
Horror stories are welcome, hey I want to know what to steer her away from as well.

Some of the options considered are basically ANY small car (she loved her civic, and it was an 8th generation when they were still small before the civic became a full size car),
Her garage space is small, so we will be keeping it to small, no explorer sized or expedition, excursion, etc... basically a "full size sedan" is even kinda out, she wants a tight little car.
USED - not looking at another new car, she can't be trusted to pay attention to it enough. And at 50k for a new vehicle now nobody can afford the damn things.
.... even *ugh* an SUV.
Hyundai Ionique is on the possible list, Toyota Prius, even looking at a BMW i3 hybrid (though that 2 tone paint scheme is ugly as sin to me)... feel free to add others to the list, but give me some good reasons why (just don't try to convince me Nissan's CVT is 'reliable').

Edit: Found this link in a random search, adding it here as a bookmark for more stuff to read.

EV`s have more issues than ice vehicles

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2023/11/30/report-electric-vehicles-have-80-more-problems-than-gas-powered-cars/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2jxnWyBuEYl8h4QEAyltmOVOvuUSie5jl_pBv1Bg08dZJ7qLbK6DusmcE

www.therangerstation.com

 

[SenorNoob]

Nissan's CVT isn't really even Nissan's. Jatco
Maybe Nissan adjacent would be appropriate. Knowing what I do now, I'd avoid anything on that list.

 

[Brain75]

including the ford fusion (eCVT tranny by Haldex, same as Toyota)...?

 

[superj]

my sister has had two or three priuses. she loves them. she buys them when they are around 3 years old and drives them to 150k and gets another.

she has had such great luck with them i thought of buying one that just needed the batteries replaced and using it as a work car because you used to be able to get them 1k when they needed new batteries.

 

[superj]

changing batteries isn't such a bad deal on them. plenty of online instructions for how to do it but its a lot of work. not hard, you just will be on it for the weekend

 

[Brain75]

...Knowing what I do now, I'd avoid anything on that list....

You can't do that... claim to know something and not share... spit it out, what do you know?

my sister has had two or three priuses. she loves them. she buys them when they are around 3 years old and drives them to 150k and gets another.

she has had such great luck with them i thought of buying one that just needed the batteries replaced and using it as a work car because you used to be able to get them 1k when they needed new batteries.

Were they all oldschool CVT's (pre 2016) a mix or all eCVT's? How did the tranny's hold up?

I see a huge drop in price on the prius's at 8 years /100k miles... buy one that has 91k miles and they want 1/2 of new price, if it has 101k miles they want $5000... toyota's powertrain warranty happens to be 8 year / 100k mi.

 

[Curious Hound]

All I have to add is that my ex’s CRV developed a quirky “shift” or whatever. Couldn’t really describe it well. But we could feel it doing something odd. But when I started digging into it online, it fell right in line with horror stories I was reading about those CVT transmissions. We sold it before it got extremely obvious and I vowed to avoid CVT’s at all cost. Might be fine for some machinery. But I don’t want trust them for propelling a car.

 

[901wd#2]

Prius is a solid machine. Who cares about the stereotypical Prius owner?

2nd gen & 3 gen experience here, drove & beat on a dozen over two years time. My favorite thing to do was line up at the last red light leaving the commercial section of town. Lean on the accelerator while holding the brake would preload & suck the rear suspension down, light would turn green it would reach the other side of the intersection before the people beside me started moving. Hold it down and glide up to the limiter.

The ECvT is excellent. It uses a dry clutch that’s always engaged, and two electric motors to manipulate a planetary gear set to continuously vary. It “never” needs brakes, tires are tiny and cheap, no matter what you do you’re gonna get at least 40 miles to the gallon.


There’s like five things that fail on those a cell or two in the battery, the exhaust hanger, valve or an electric pump on the cooling system, rear suspension level sensor if it has the fancy headlights.

 

[Brain75]

I did actually watch a complete teardown of the eCVT before I even started this thread - it is nothing like a regular belt/drum CVT, which is why it made the list - the only issue is that at 8 years old just now (2016-2024) the very first ones are just hitting warranty. Given that mfg. now make things to fail just right after warranty I am a little skittish on just how much they will last past the 8yr / 100k. I think Ford's Fusion started em a couple years earlier (2013?) but I haven't dug too far into that unless she proves to have a little interest.

I think she is wise avoiding a belt/drum CVT as well... crappy thing is the more I look the more I see CVT's in current offerings. Because they always keep the engine in peak rpm range they achieve peak fuel efficiency which is yet another way mfg are hitting CAFE standards - pushing crappy technology on us before it has all the bugs worked out cause it achieves 1/2 mpg better.

I also have a gripe with toyota, their 3rd row in the highlander is a complete utter total worthless pile of steaming.... The seat is so curved and uncomfortable the only way to sit in it is straight forward with perfect posture quite upright. I'm only 5'8" and if I sit upright my head touches the headliner if I turn it side to side or move at all. If their seating is that bad in other vehicles I would veto the lot of em.

 

[superj]

my sister had two older ones and the newest is the 2018 or 2019 she currently drives.

i still think about getting one just for mileage and the usefullness of the wagon body style

 

[19Walt93]

The Escape and Fusion hybrids used a planetary cvt and we never had one apart for any reason. The worst pat of Escape hybrids was the $4000(in 2016) ABS module because it had to create a fake brake pedal feel duringregenerative braking.I still wouldn't buy one, you can buy a lot of extra gas for a 30 mpg gas car for the price of a replacement battery.
The 500 and Freestyle weren't hybrids but they used a ZF cvt that was a problem prone money pit.

 

[Brain75]

The Escape and Fusion hybrids used a planetary cvt and we never had one apart for any reason. The worst pat of Escape hybrids was the $4000(in 2016) ABS module because it had to create a fake brake pedal feel duringregenerative braking.I still wouldn't buy one, you can buy a lot of extra gas for a 30 mpg gas car for the price of a replacement battery.
The 500 and Freestyle weren't hybrids but they used a ZF cvt that was a problem prone money pit.

my understanding was the fusion from introduction till 2012 used some other CVT, and from '13 on used the exact same eCVT as toyota prius (made by Haldex)... was your complaints on the fusion early models or '13 and newer?

The fusion is kinda on the list sorta.... still deciding if it makes the cut.

 

[bobbywalter]

i cant even begin to describe how much this thing kicks booty.




i had a 21....this kid does a good job lining it out...

we had one similar....and i loved it. we get the 6.5 foot beds.

this way..

she can keep the honda....just put it in the bed. win win.


we have a brand new one and it has evolved....alot.

the self driving is insane...but nice on long trips.

its slower on the bottom....and gets worse fuel economy then the first one. the slow is to protect the drivetrain...

not too sure why the economy is less. a bit concerned with that.

but you will have a ford....and a bad ass generator. and no cvt.

whomever bought our 21 got a great deal. it would get about 20- 24 hiway and even more depending on conditions.... in town 19-24 and averaged about 18-19 running all of the time...to keep the heat or ac up...but only runs to charge the battery. if your frugal its over 22 average. thats crazy for a 150.


towing.... well. it uses 450 hp and 570 ft lb worth of fuel...but is a monster..

you should have her drive one. my wife can not imagine life without it now...

 

[Brain75]

lol, given all things and the finances and such she just "can not imagine life going back to something worse than 35mpg" her civic was a peach in that regard.. she had a subaru outback sport before this, and some ole dodge rag before that.

I learned long ago that "happy wife, happy life" means just turning your head and letting her do something her way cause she has to do it or she is gonna be a miserable bi-hatch to live with... I have no love of hybrids, I just want to steer her into the least worst and I can promise ya a full size truck is a total non-starter with her.
A for effort though.

 

[bobbywalter]

mine loves the 150.... especially the hybrid.

be nice if i could talk her into a civic....then i could do shit with my ranger.


civics are great buggies. i had an 80 with an 87 prelude engine i used to whip the crap out of.... big fun.