How important are Cold Cranking Amps on your battery?

[pentode]

I don't want to muddy the waters here and my opinion is by no means gospel but here are a couple things I'd keep in mind re: batteries. The reason they talk about "cold cranking amps" is that a) batteries struggle to provide current the colder it gets and b) starters draw more current when it gets cold - friction, thick oil etc.
Bearing that in mind, on a bad day, a starter is going to pull 300, maybe 400 amps, although I think the latter is a stretch. A 700 amp battery is going to be plenty for just about any starter unless your engine says Cummins on it.
Now, once you get into talking about accidental battery drain, things get complicated, but basically you're into a whole different part of battery chemistry than CCA. Car-starting batteries don't like to be drained very much at all. Without getting deep into it, you get sulfation that damages the lead plates in such a way that they'll never hold a full charge again. So, don't think of more CCA as more reserve capacity, that's what deep cycle batteries are for.
My 2 cents? If you're worried about those rare occasions where something goes wrong and you're in a bind, watch Project Farm's reviews of Li-ion jump packs and grab one of his top rated $60 units and stow that somewhere safe. Rather than chase all over looking for the exact right starting battery, I'd argue that the jump pack is going to be a lot more useful. You might even be able to help your bro out when his Jeep breaks down

 

[JoshT]

I recently jumped on the jump pack train. Haven't needed it yet, but happy that I've got it when I do. It's also my experience it isn't usually cranking and lack of CCA that kills them either. As said it's other drains or age. A dead battery is a dead battery, doesn't matter how much CCA it has. If you've got a good sized jump box, it doesn't matter if it's weak from age or dead from a paracitic draw, you can still get to the store to replace it.

Granted, I say that living in a place that only drops to the teens for a few days out of the year.

 

[Rick W]

You should be qualifying you statements:

If you're running just 10 gauge wire to your 2nd battery, you better have it set up so that you can't use it to start the engine e.g. a max 50 amp breaker (fuse) in the circuit (assuming <2m cable length).

If your distance is greater you need a smaller breaker (e.g. 3m = 30 amp fuse).

Burning your vehicle to the ground because you didn't follow proper guidelines isn't being frugal.

it is a double 10ga, and it does have a breaker

 

[SlugStang8997]

Well i may have found some batteries that would have plenty of CCA maybe even to much CCA.
Can you have to much CCA?

But you guessed it, there expensive. But they have a crazy 11 year warranty. There Lithium batteries instead of lead acid. Don't know much about them but im going to read up on them. And i think they will fit or at least 1-2 might fit but it doesn't say specifically size 58-59 but the dimensions of the battery might fit My 2001 ranger. But we are talking the 600-1000 $ for a battery but it last 11 years so i guess you could say its worth it is like 3 300$ batteries. If it is the last battery i would ever need then i could say it might be worth it. But Anyways check these batteries out. I have never used them i just found them online. So im not vouching for them. But i am considering one of them. Click on the car battery button after you click on the link there are 3 car batteries. The width might be a problem im not sure.

Automotive & Powersports Archives

dakotalithium.com

 

[Robertmangrum.rm]

Well i may have found some batteries that would have plenty of CCA maybe even to much CCA.
Can you have to much CCA?

But you guessed it, there expensive. But they have a crazy 11 year warranty. There Lithium batteries instead of lead acid. Don't know much about them but im going to read up on them. And i think they will fit or at least 1-2 might fit but it doesn't say specifically size 58-59 but the dimensions of the battery might fit My 2001 ranger. But we are talking the 600-1000 $ for a battery but it last 11 years so i guess you could say its worth it is like 3 300$ batteries. If it is the last battery i would ever need then i could say it might be worth it. But Anyways check these batteries out. I have never used them i just found them online. So im not vouching for them. But i am considering one of them. Click on the car battery button after you click on the link there are 3 car batteries. The width might be a problem im not sure.

Automotive & Powersports Archives

dakotalithium.com

Lithium batteries have a crazy charging characteristics. I'm not sure your alternator would work correctly. Not to mention they don't like cold weather. A lot of them I use come with built in heaters. If you remember back this winter. There was a story I think from Illinois that talked about all the stranded EVs because it was too cold for the batteries to accept a charge. Whe I use them in my builds. I have to install a DC to DC charger that matches the charging characteristics of the lithium battery.

 

[pentode]

Lithium Is also basically an explosive. Don't believe me? Go find the smallest piece of lithium you can find and throw it (with tweezers) into your nearest pond. If that's not exciting enough for you throw it in the ocean.
They're talking about pumping 135 amps into their $1000 battery without giving any real info about what their battery is.
Remember that cargo ship that burned for a week because 5 EVs spontaneously combusted? 'Nuf said.

 

[Rick W]

Well i may have found some batteries that would have plenty of CCA maybe even to much CCA.
Can you have to much CCA?

But you guessed it, there expensive. But they have a crazy 11 year warranty. There Lithium batteries instead of lead acid. Don't know much about them but im going to read up on them. And i think they will fit or at least 1-2 might fit but it doesn't say specifically size 58-59 but the dimensions of the battery might fit My 2001 ranger. But we are talking the 600-1000 $ for a battery but it last 11 years so i guess you could say its worth it is like 3 300$ batteries. If it is the last battery i would ever need then i could say it might be worth it. But Anyways check these batteries out. I have never used them i just found them online. So im not vouching for them. But i am considering one of them. Click on the car battery button after you click on the link there are 3 car batteries. The width might be a problem im not sure.

Automotive & Powersports Archives

dakotalithium.com

edit: I edited out a bunch of typos

Lord knows I’m the prime example of going where your thoughts take you, but not recommending my stuff to anybody else. I love doing weird stuff, interesting stuff. That lithium ion battery would sure fit the bill. But I would only do it if you want that weird cool factor.

All the batteries we’ve been talking about already will work fine in your truck, but if you put that lithium ion battery in there, you’ll probably be the only one in any group you’re with. You’ll have to figure out some kind of lights or fireworks to highlight it.

On the downside, I’m not sure how safe the big lithium ion batteries are yet. I’ve seen a bunch of industrial applications burn up. And once they start burning, it’s next to impossible to put them out.

As always, just my two cents

 

[RobbieD]

But we are talking the 600-1000 $ for a battery

Holy Cow! That's my target price range to buy a whole truck!


Of course . . . these days I'm not just "thrifty", but rather outright "cheap".

 

[Curious Hound]

I would not recommend a lio battery. I even considered one for my motorcycle last year. But they don't do well in the cold and are dangerous. I won't tell you not to get one. It's your truck. But I will strongly recommend that you think long and hard before going that route. You really don't need it.

 

[Rick W]

I would not recommend a lio battery. I even considered one for my motorcycle last year. But they don't do well in the cold and are dangerous. I won't tell you not to get one. It's your truck. But I will strongly recommend that you think long and hard before going that route. You really don't need it.

don’t mince words…

 

[SlugStang8997]

Thanks for your all your replys
I don't want my truck to blow up or catch on fire for sure. I don't want to have to modify the alternator either or anything like that. I was hoping to find an easy plug and play battery. I will do a bunch of research on these Lithium Batteries before i get one.

It doesn't get that cold here in CA so the batteries not doing well in cold climate might not be a problem for me. But if i did live in a cold climate i most likely would not go for these batteries.

The price tag on those batteries is what turns me off the most. I am going to see what there customer service is like. See if i can get a full Data sheet on the battery.

I will ask if there safe to run in older vehicles. I picture these batteries in new high tech cars or trucks.

I won't try to run one unless i get some assurances from the manufacturer. I would like to know were there made, what materials there made from etc... Can i return the battery if it don't fit my truck cause thats alot of money to dish out for a battery.

Before i go battery crazy here let me see what information i can gather.

 

[SlugStang8997]

Well i sent them a message asking some questions and requested a data sheet. They only have 3 batteries for cars and trucks. Out of those 3 batteries only 1 has regular car or automotive terminals on it. And there opposite of my terminals. But that shouldn't be to much of a problem. Its the LTO battery Lithium Titanium Oxide witch sounds even more dangerous then Lithium LOL. I will also try calling them and i want to see if there knowledgeable on there products. Here is there technical specs on the battery Listed on there website.

11 Year Warranty Best in class, world-beating, eleven-year manufacturer defect warranty.
Storage Capacity 20 Ampere hours (Ah). Dakota Lithium batteries provide consistent power for all 20 Amp hours. DL LTO batteries have a flat voltage curve, which means they have a steady power output as the battery discharges. The power output will not dramatically drop like similar sized SLA batteries. You get all the juice down to the last drop.

Chemistry Lithium Titanium Oxide (LTO)

Voltage 12.0V

Watt Hours 240

Low Voltage Cutoff 7.5±0.03V

Size 8.15"L X 6.89"W X 7.48"H (207mm X 175mm X 190mm) Group Size 21, but is compatible with battery

sizes: 49, 99, 99R, 102R, 140R

Weight 11.02lbs (5kg)

Terminals SAE Terminal (Standard Automotive Post)

Cold Cranking Amps 1100A (850CCA @ -18°C)

Lifecycles (Battery Lifespan) 10,000 Cycles

Operating Temperature -40°C - 60°C

Max Continuous Discharge 200A 1,000A Max

Max Charge Voltage 15.5V

Max Current Charge 60A

High-Temperature Proctection? -4°F - 185°F (85°C)

Low-Temperature Protection? None

Charge Temperature -140°F (-20°C - 60°C)

Discharge Temperature -40°F - 140°F (-40°C - 60°C)

Approx. Charge Time 6.67 hrs with 3A, 2 hrs with 10A

Internal Heating None

IP Rating IP65

Certifications UN38.3

ISO 9001:2015 Dakota Lithium is ISO Certified per 9001:2015 standards, and select models are produced in ISO 14001 certified facilities.

 

[pentode]

One interesting detail on that spec sheet is where they openly state (and I credit them for being honest) how the cranking amps drop when it gets cold. I'm guessing it doesn't into the single digit temps that often where you are but they're only claiming 850 @ -18C... Which probably isn't that far off the battery you already have.
As mentioned earlier, lithium batteries are very fussy about temps. They perform poorly in the cold and they lose capacity when sitting near full charge and especially when sitting charged in the heat. IMHO it's really not well suited to automotive applications. Something like LiFePo4 batteries might make more sense. I know they exist because I hunted some down for a buddy- thing is, they still require special care and feeding like all lithium chemistries, they're just more durable and handle the heat better. And tend not to melt down when things go wrong.

 

[SlugStang8997]

One interesting detail on that spec sheet is where they openly state (and I credit them for being honest) how the cranking amps drop when it gets cold. I'm guessing it doesn't into the single digit temps that often where you are but they're only claiming 850 @ -18C... Which probably isn't that far off the battery you already have.
As mentioned earlier, lithium batteries are very fussy about temps. They perform poorly in the cold and they lose capacity when sitting near full charge and especially when sitting charged in the heat. IMHO it's really not well suited to automotive applications. Something like LiFePo4 batteries might make more sense. I know they exist because I hunted some down for a buddy- thing is, they still require special care and feeding like all lithium chemistries, they're just more durable and handle the heat better. And tend not to melt down when things go wrong.

Thank you for your reply's
The LiFePo4 batteries look pretty good and they sell them on Amazon... Easy returns... fast shipping...
They seem to have a few that will fit as well, i will check them out. Maybe there better than the Dakota Lithium. The LiFePo4 batteries seem to be more like car batteries as far as terminals go. I will try to get the specs on there car batteries and post them here.

 

[Rick W]

Thanks for your all your replys
I don't want my truck to blow up or catch on fire for sure. I don't want to have to modify the alternator either or anything like that. I was hoping to find an easy plug and play battery. I will do a bunch of research on these Lithium Batteries before i get one.

It doesn't get that cold here in CA so the batteries not doing well in cold climate might not be a problem for me. But if i did live in a cold climate i most likely would not go for these batteries.

The price tag on those batteries is what turns me off the most. I am going to see what there customer service is like. See if i can get a full Data sheet on the battery.

I will ask if there safe to run in older vehicles. I picture these batteries in new high tech cars or trucks.

I won't try to run one unless i get some assurances from the manufacturer. I would like to know were there made, what materials there made from etc... Can i return the battery if it don't fit my truck cause thats alot of money to dish out for a battery.

Before i go battery crazy here let me see what information i can gather.

maybe we are being too critical because Lord knows they’re used at all kinds of applications. I think it’s reasonable to assume that they are selling them for vehicles that they’ve been tested to some degree by the manufacturer. I’m wondered if anybody knows if there are required safety test by the government if it’s really what you want, you are on the right track, just do the research.

But the one thing I will say from experience. Even if it’s a very slim chance, once one of those batteries starts burning, it is very difficult to put it out. It has a tremendous amount of stored energy and the fire creates oxygen so it’s hard to snuff it. When regular batteries go bad, even if they burn, it’s fairly contained.