Holding clutch in.

[Mazda]

I ride the clutch. All the time. I do a lot of city driving. Almost no highway. But I have only replaced my clutch twice in 21 years so I don't know if it puts a lot more pressure on the components over doing it the other way. I have a buddy that always took it out of gear at stops and stuff and he never replaced the clutch in his car the entire 15 years he owned it.

 

[RonD]

Clutch disc wears when pedal is at any position except no foot on the pedal

When clutch disc is sandwiched between flywheel and pressure plate there there is no wear, assuming good springs on pressure plate and disc isn't slipping, lol.

With clutch pedal in all the way at a stop then clutch disc should be at 0 RPMs, same RPMs as rear wheels if trans is in gear, flywheel and pressure plate are at 600-700RPMs same as engine.
Clutch disc doesn't have anything to distance it from either the flywheel or pressure plate so it will rub a bit, certainly not alot if slave and master are air free and working well.
But the rubbing part is what can make it hard to get trans into 1st gear when stopped.
Clutch disc is spinning so input shaft is spinning and transmission gears are not because rear wheels are not, so to get it into 1st the clutch disc/input shaft must stop spinning.
because of the ratios it is often easier to shift trans into 4th and then into 1st at a stop, shifting into 4th has better "leverage" to stop clutch disc spinning.
The harder it is to get into 1st at a stop means the more the clutch disc is rubbing.

So the question of should I shift into Neutral at a stop is more a question of time, if you won't be moving for awhile then I would, 0 wear on clutch disc when in Neutral foot off clutch pedal.

Then there is the question of slave/master use, say there is a finite number of pedal pushes before one or the other fails, say it is 100,000 cycles
50 cycles a day times 30 days times 12 months = 18,000 cycles a year
5.5 years for 100k cycles, they tend to last longer than this so I don't think pedal pushes would matter one way or the other.

So all in all I would shift to neutral and give your clutch disc, and leg, a rest

 

[Kealel]

I got my truck with 104k miles, PO held the clutch in all the time and was original owner. Just replaced my pilot bearing (and slave and clutch) because of it.

 

[Mike1919]

Clutch disc wears when pedal is at any position except no foot on the pedal

When clutch disc is sandwiched between flywheel and pressure plate there there is no wear, assuming good springs on pressure plate and disc isn't slipping, lol.

With clutch pedal in all the way at a stop then clutch disc should be at 0 RPMs, same RPMs as rear wheels if trans is in gear, flywheel and pressure plate are at 600-700RPMs same as engine.
Clutch disc doesn't have anything to distance it from either the flywheel or pressure plate so it will rub a bit, certainly not alot if slave and master are air free and working well.
But the rubbing part is what can make it hard to get trans into 1st gear when stopped.
Clutch disc is spinning so input shaft is spinning and transmission gears are not because rear wheels are not, so to get it into 1st the clutch disc/input shaft must stop spinning.
because of the ratios it is often easier to shift trans into 4th and then into 1st at a stop, shifting into 4th has better "leverage" to stop clutch disc spinning.
The harder it is to get into 1st at a stop means the more the clutch disc is rubbing.

So the question of should I shift into Neutral at a stop is more a question of time, if you won't be moving for awhile then I would, 0 wear on clutch disc when in Neutral foot off clutch pedal.

Then there is the question of slave/master use, say there is a finite number of pedal pushes before one or the other fails, say it is 100,000 cycles
50 cycles a day times 30 days times 12 months = 18,000 cycles a year
5.5 years for 100k cycles, they tend to last longer than this so I don't think pedal pushes would matter one way or the other.

So all in all I would shift to neutral and give your clutch disc, and leg, a rest

Wow, thanks. As for the shifting into first from a dead stop, I'm pretty sure the master cylinder and slave cylinder are in working order. I know semi trucks have a clutch brake to stop the transmission frm spinning, granted those are much heavier gears, I've always assumed that when you disengage the clutch the transmission is still spinning and, due to the lack of clutch brake, it would be normal for more force required to put into first until it stops spinning. Thats just my theory. Which brings me to my next question, I can hear spinning noise when the clutch is engaged. Not loud, not grinding, not howling, just spinning. My truck has no floor sound deadening either and you have to really listen to hear it. Is this a normal noise?

 

[RonD]

Transmission can't be disconnected from rear wheels, so transmission is always spinning at the same speed as the rear wheels unless in neutral.

Clutch disconnects engine from transmission.
If you are in 1st gear and push the clutch in and stop the truck, the clutch disc will be at 0RPM because trans is in gear and rear wheels are 0 RPM.
So any spinning noise would be from flywheel/pressure plate rubbing on clutch disc, or more likely the throw out bearing spinning under load from slave being expanded.

If you shift into Neutral and let the clutch out, pressure would come off the throw out bearing and clutch disc would start to spin along with input shaft and counter shaft and gears, but they are not engaged with output shaft which stays at 0 RPM.
So gears in the transmission are now spinning at engine RPMs

When you want to shift back into 1st from Neutral then when you push the clutch pedal in all that motion must come to a stop to match output shaft, which can take a second or two, but if clutch disc it rubbing a bit it keeps the motion going, which can make it harder to get into 1st.
This is why air in the system causes such an issue, slave doesn't expand all the way so clutch disc has spin pressure on it which makes it very hard indeed to get trans into 1st if rear wheels are at 0 RPM.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Thats cause he he had no clue what he was doing an was probably banging it in and out of gears like an ape and its the forks from what i have seen.I have never had an issue in 30yrs.

He put almost 200k miles on it in almost 20 years so he must not have done too bad.

 

[Mike1919]

Maybe I will bleed the clutch, it's a little difficult to shift from first to second as well. Not hard, just requires a bit more force than I would think. The only other vehicle I have to compare shifts to is my dads 1992 wrangler with an aisin ax5 transmission. That one shifts smooth compared to mine. I'll try bleeding the clutch. And is it safe to say the fact that ican hear the gears spinning is normal? Make note I am being very picky about this, some people probably wouldn't even notice it, I just like to catch problems before they grow.

 

[RonD]

No, not normal.

Next time you come to a stop leave trans in gear.
With clutch pedal in and trans in gear the only thing spinning is the flywheel, pressure plate and throw out bearing, is there a noise, raise RPMs if needed.

Now shift to neutral and let clutch pedal out
The flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disc, input shaft and transmission gears are all now spinning.
Listen if there is a noise, raise RPMs.



When clutch pedal is out ALL the gears in transmission are spinning, regardless of the gear selected, even neutral, all the gears are always "meshed" together with their counter shaft gear and spinning, if clutch pedal is out.

And no gears are connected to output shaft, they ride on bearings on the output shaft so spin free.

Connected to the output shaft are "dog gears" or "dog clutches", when you shift into 1st, for example, the 1st/2nd dog gear slides into the 1st gear syncro, syncro is a soft gear that is there to match dog gears spin(output shaft) to 1st gears spin(input shaft).
1st gear and the dog gear have matching tabs and slots, when spin is the same these will slide together and output shaft is now connected to 1st gear via dog gear.
When you shift to 2nd that same dog gear will be pulled away from 1st gear and be push against 2nd gear syncro to match spin and then tabs and slots will slide into place and output shaft is connected to 2nd gear.
3rd/4th use same dog gear, as do 5th(OD) and reverse.
This is why shift pattern is the way it is.
And neutral is when all the dog gears are in the middle, not connected to either of their specific gears.

Google: how manual transmission works animation
How it works is fairly simple and usually not what most people think.

Bleeding Ranger clutch is a good idea, make sure to keep reservoir topped up.

 

[matt2003333]

He put almost 200k miles on it in almost 20 years so he must not have done too bad.

I guess i misread you post....Sorry.Yeah thats not to bad at all.Im bad for being cheap with the clutch and brakes.I even watch the cross walk light and time the stop light so i dont have to shift if theres no one behind me.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I guess i misread you post....Sorry.Yeah thats not to bad at all.Im bad for being cheap with the clutch and brakes.I even watch the cross walk light and time the stop light so i dont have to shift if theres no one behind me.

Its fine.

I do that with an automatic, the main drag in my town if you hit one red light you will hit them all.

I would rather change the clutch than internal tranny parts is all.

 

[Andy D]

I love to put the Rat in neutral and coast up to lights

 

[matt2003333]

Its fine.

I do that with an automatic, the main drag in my town if you hit one red light you will hit them all.

I would rather change the clutch than internal tranny parts is all.

I guess i agree to disagree.I have been shifting to neutral without the clutch for decades and so do most of the people i have driven with.I don't pretend to have a lot knowledge but i dont see how shifting to neutral unloaded puts wear on the syncros.Your pulling the gears out of mesh unloaded to free wheel.Am i missing something?i Also dont understand why people do it to automatics?