Hey Ford!!! Screw you guys!!!!

[G8orFord]

Removing the keyways wasn't done to reduce manufacturing cost, it was done to enable more exact cam timing-pin everything in place and torque it up- AS LONG AS IT HOLDS, the timing is spot on, not within tolerances. Cars are more complicated than ever but they last longer than ever before.

Just how accurate do you need the cam timing? Today's milling machines aren't accurate enough? I don't buy that as the reason for even a second. It was done because some young engineer thought he had a better idea and the bean counters bought it because it was going to get them more service work and/or require non- dealer shops to buy more unnecessary tooling. It's a STUPID system and was a solution without a problem. If you can build a tool set that holds the crank and cams in "perfect" position, you can cut a keyway just as accurately.

 

[8thTon]

Just how accurate do you need the cam timing? Today's milling machines aren't accurate enough? I don't buy that as the reason for even a second. It was done because some young engineer thought he had a better idea and the bean counters bought it because it was going to get them more service work and/or require non- dealer shops to buy more unnecessary tooling. It's a STUPID system and was a solution without a problem. If you can build a tool set that holds the crank and cams in "perfect" position, you can cut a keyway just as accurately.

The distance between the crank and camshaft centerlines, plus the length of the chain/belt between the crank & cam (*/- 1 tooth), are variables that can't be compensated for ahead of time when you're cutting the keyway.

 

[Dirtman]

Snarf.

 

[RonD]

Well there is VVT(variable valve timing) so no reason at all NOT to put a key way on the crank, OR Cams for that matter, if valve/crank timing can be adjusted AFTER the fact

Now cutting into a shaft or gear does make it weaker, but..............you would be hard pressed to find a failed shaft because of the key slot, or a failed gear because of the gear slot

 

[8thTon]

Well there is VVT(variable valve timing) so no reason at all NOT to put a key way on the crank, OR Cams for that matter, if valve/crank timing can be adjusted AFTER the fact

It's a good point Ron, but I don't think we know all the reasons several manufacturers are going this way. I doubt it's the cost of the key & keyway, given all the extra cost of direct injection, variable valve timing, turbos, etc. It may be that even with VVT it spends time at the max and min rotation, which would still be effected by base timing.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Bottom line is we all need to go back to 400CID+ big blocks topped off by a 4bbl carb and backed by a 4 speed with a creeper low.

Ford/GM Trucks peaked in the late 70s, leveled off from the 80s into the 90s, and ford went to total shit in 97 and GM in 99. Dodge stayed pretty true till 2001.

Women and pansy ass yuppie men ruined the truck market.

If momma wants to haul the kids buy her a damn minivan.

 

[G8orFord]

The distance between the crank and camshaft centerlines, plus the length of the chain/belt between the crank & cam (*/- 1 tooth), are variables that can't be compensated for ahead of time when you're cutting the keyway.

Huh? It worked for 100+ years and with a lot less accurate mills than are available now. 0.0005" between can and crank centerline isn't going to make a hill of beans difference in the cam timing.

 

[19Walt93]

Hotline is still there but it's become a PC basket-case. I have contacted them in the past to ask about stupid design flaws like this and basically get "Yeah, we know it's dumb, but they don't ask for our opinions before building it". Also, almost all of the good Hotline guys got sick of Ford's BS and left for Chrysler.

I'm not sure what the PSMAC report is, it may have a different acronym now. I was permanently banned from the old message board, and I haven't tried to sign into the new one. From what I understand though the kind of pot I'm stirring is frowned upon and likely to just get me banned again.

PSMAC is-or at least was- the Parts and Service Managers Advisory Council, their job was to round up suggestions and problems that the dealers wanted Ford to address and bring them to Ford at periodic meetings. The dealer council addresses business and sales concerns, PSMAC is kind of the service version. You should try to get reinstated on the message boards and tone it down a little so you can use it to compare notes with other techs, the information is apt to be worth biting your tongue a little.

 

[snoranger]

Huh? It worked for 100+ years and with a lot less accurate mills than are available now. 0.0005" between can and crank centerline isn't going to make a hill of beans difference in the cam timing.

Yes, but at what point in that 100+ years we’re they trying to meet the extremely strict emission regulations of today while producing 400 hp out of a V6?

 

[Dirtman]

Huh? It worked for 100+ years and with a lot less accurate mills than are available now. 0.0005" between can and crank centerline isn't going to make a hill of beans difference in the cam timing.

Not sayin I completely disagree with you but your now talking about 4 cams, 20 feet of chain, extremely tight valve to pison clearance and precision timing. Nothing compared to a 100 year old pushrod engine.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Not sayin I completely disagree with you but your now talking about 4 cams, 20 feet of chain, extremely tight valve to pison clearance and precision timing. Nothing compared to a 100 year old pushrod engine.

For level of sophistication a 100 year engine is all but made out of wood compared to a new engine.

My oldest is 74 years old this year.

But knocking on wood it runs great and the cam hasn’t slipped yet.

BUT with the VCT stuff you may get harmonics/shock loads that will shear a key like a flywheel on a lawn mower. I missed that meeting but is something to think about too.

I know international tractors that with the hydraulic pump in front of the distributor are very good at shearing cam gear keys and wearing out the key ways. The keys/key ways can’t take the stress.

Even without the pump they can struggle. Had a H two years ago that would run great until it didn’t. Retime it and it was the same. On shutdown as the engine coasted sometimes it would jump time due to a sheared key. Produced between 1939 and around 1950.

 

[Blmpkn]

Bottom line is we all need to go back to 400CID+ big blocks topped off by a 4bbl carb and backed by a 4 speed with a creeper low.

Ford/GM Trucks peaked in the late 70s, leveled off from the 80s into the 90s, and ford went to total shit in 97 and GM in 99. Dodge stayed pretty true till 2001.

Women and pansy ass yuppie men ruined the truck market.

If momma wants to haul the kids buy her a damn minivan.

Meh. GM graced us with arguably the best motor ever made in their trucks starting in 98(?).

But overall yeah, the golden era of GM trucks died with the square body.

 

[sheep herder]

Not sayin I completely disagree with you but your now talking about 4 cams, 20 feet of chain, extremely tight valve to pison clearance and precision timing. Nothing compared to a 100 year old pushrod engine.

You're not supposed to pison your valves. You're supposed to pison @PetroleumJunkie412 's 4.0 OHV motor.

 

[Dirtman]

Prove it...

 

[adsm08]

It may be that even with VVT it spends time at the max and min rotation, which would still be effected by base timing.

I doubt this very much.

The VCT systems used by Ford have an operational range of roughly 50 degrees in either direction. Under the most extreme accelerations I have never seen one be commanded to go more than 20 to 25 or so degrees.